Frank and K, don't make me beg.

[PhoneLobster]

Gaming discussion of all kinds < nearly everything.

Regardless of the importance of the topic when someone lies to or insults you over it it is perfectly OK to feel a bit miffed and even dare to express that emotion in some manner.

Taking it too seriously is going and shooting the guy in the head or something.

To come out against say Frank or K's low key non shoot guy in head type responses here is basically to take the position of some kind of batshit crazy nihilist against any form of meaningful dialogue on anything or any kind of human response or conviction about anything.

Or some stupid lolz troll.

I hope it turns out to be the lolz trolling.

Because I fucking hate nihilists.

[Jerry]

Fuck off with the image macro shit.

Huh, did somebody edit something, I didn't notice anything?

[Username17]

Because I fucking hate nihilists.

I think nihilism is the foundation of every modern school of moral thought that is in any way defensible.

-Username17

[Maxus]

...Heh, I had a debate in philosophy class where I had a rare instance of eloquence and had my opponent break debate format and flat-out ask me how I can get out of bed in the morning.

After I'd elaborated my belief that there aren't any big lights in the sky telling us what Right and Wrong, and they, along with justice and the like, are at best shared hallucinations--something that doesn't actually exist, but most people act as if they do.

Maybe I read too much Pratchett in my mid-to-late teens, but I'm more and more thinking he got a few things right...

[JonSetanta]

Because I fucking hate nihilists.

Well now. That's a bit harsh.
My dear seriousposter, I am indeed offended.

[PhoneLobster]

I think nihilism is the foundation of every modern school of moral thought that is in any way defensible.

It's nothing more than the dead end inbred cousin of every school of moral thought that is in any way defensible.

Anyway, I'm using it in its more colloquial "bunch of shits who do fuck about just for the lolz" meaning traditionally used by religious types to insult non nihilistic (but distantly related) types since forever.

[Voss]

There are defensible schools of moral thought?
Beyond stabbing anyone who disagrees with you, of course.

[Bigode]

There are defensible schools of moral thought?
Beyond stabbing anyone who disagrees with you, of course.

Yeah, there're the ones you get people to follow so they don't do that to you; "There is only one ethical system and it is pragmatism. Only goals change."

[JonSetanta]

There are defensible schools of moral thought?
Beyond stabbing anyone who disagrees with you, of course.

Murder is a very persuasive form of debate. You get the final word if you succeed.
Maybe that is why it's so popular.

[Orion]

Anyone taken a look at Release 3?

Sorcerers get 1 bonus spell at each lvel determiend by bloodline

Bards get offensive music abilities that will rock your face off

Monks... still suck, but at least he's trying. Combat Maneuver training and the Ki pool are both substantial upgrades in offensive ability. not nearly enough, but more change than I expected.

[Leress]

Anyone taken a look at Release 3?

Sorcerers get 1 bonus spell at each lvel determiend by bloodline

Bards get offensive music abilities that will rock your face off

Monks... still suck, but at least he's trying. Combat Maneuver training and the Ki pool are both substantial upgrades in offensive ability. not nearly enough, but more change than I expected.

I would agree, and I was looking at the Monk and wondering...why isn't quivering palm using the ki pool?

The Ranger...adding favored terrain...the animal compaion still sucks...the spell casting still sucks.

Combat Feat still pretty much suck. The restriction of 1 per round is gone...until you read that most still can't be combined for one reason or another (swift action to activate, full round action, standard action, etc)

I will have to look at it more...

[JonSetanta]

Bards get offensive music abilities that will rock your face off

Ooh. Tell me more!

And the Monk Chi/Ki pool was a concept I also tried to adapt from the 3.5 Ninja, yet failed to do so in a balanced manner. I might re-attempt it as a per-encounter mechanic, but with the FnK Monk out (and 4 years later) there really hasn't been much of a need to do so.

[Voss]

Wow. the bardic 'performance' effects don't seem to have any tags, or they're buried in that wall of text I'm just trying to skim. An equivalent of Mass hold monster at level 14 isn't horrible.
Too bad you need multiple perform skills to use all these abilities though.

Gah. Skill checks to set save DCs. Well. Thats a little crazy. 20th level Death (except it doesn't actually have a [death] tag, save DC: 41 minimum 57 max). If you succeed, stunned for d4 rounds. Drop dead if you fail.
Oh, no wait, jack of all trades allows you to always take 10. Save DC: 50 minimum. [DC calculation, by the by: 23 ranks, +3 skill focus, +2 double skill aptitude thing, starting charisma 18, +6 for items, +5 for inherent increases, +5 for level increases: 34 (+12) + 10 for taking 10]

Fuck you, Jason. You're an idiot.
----------

Monk is still pretty lame. Much better at grapple, but the ki pool is pretty fucked. It ties in with some abilties, but not all, but its so small, you aren't going to do much with it, especially if you use the higher level abilities. Not sure why its only tied into about 5% of the class features. But hey, it lets you make more attacks you'll miss with. Yay!

-------------
Sorcerer: Eschew materials for the win! No, seriously, that required effort on his part. And... bonus spell know. Whee. Hey... that looks familiar...

Hey, at least the fey sorcerer isn't a fucking plant-spec anymore. Thats progress. Too bad the invisibility power isn't complete. Is that a standard action? Swift? What?
------------
Wizard schools are still stupid
-----------
And it looks like SoD's got hit with the nerf bat. 10 damage/caster level? ~3d6+CL if they save? Whatever.

And holy word spells changed in some way. Can't be bothered to compare them at the moment though.

Divine Power change:

Calling upon the divine power of your patron, you imbue
yourself with strength and skill in combat. You gain
a +1 luck bonus on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls,
Strength checks, and Strength-based skill checks for every
three caster levels you have (maximum +6). You also
gain 1 temporary hit point per caster level. Whenever you
make a full attack action, you can make on additional attack
at your full base attack bonus, plus any appropriate
modifiers. This additional attack is not cumulative with
similar effects, such as haste or weapons with the speed
special ability.

Oh look, its divine favor with an extra attack and some things you don't really care about. Thats largely a nerf. Glad its toned down, but... sad that its essentially greater divine favor (and it won't stack because both are luck bonuses, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but clerics essentially lost a good spell). On the other hand, it does stack with enhancement bonuses now, so all you really lose is the faux BAB.

Righteous might also got a kick in the teeth, with the strength and natural armor bonus halved. Not really sure this spell is even worth it anymore.
-----

Oh, right, the ranger. Yeah. I don't even care.
His companion bond is so poorly worded, I can't even tell if, when he shares out his Awesome Racism Powers, if the target actually has to be someone he hates. The way it reads, it doesn't have to be.

WTF? The SoD spells are capped as damage, but both the ranger and the fucking bard get typeless death effects? Seriously?

Is some basic internal consistency even crossing what passes for this idiot's mind?

[Jerry]

Voss, your blunt and straightforward way of putting things reminds me a little bit of Frank. Did you pick off on his writing or something?

[JonSetanta]

Gods. Damn.
Jason should have learned a lesson from Anime d20's "attack rolls are now skills" blunder.
Or 3.0 Psionics with the very same d20 instead of a straight 10 for save DCs.

It's the exact. Same. Mistake.

EDIT: What what? Fey sorcerer, now? dinding Something rang my interest.

[Absentminded_Wizard]

Wow. the bardic 'performance' effects don't seem to have any tags, or they're buried in that wall of text I'm just trying to skim. An equivalent of Mass hold monster at level 14 isn't horrible.

Yep. More interesting is the fact that, since that ability doesn't have compulsion or mind-affecting tags, it works on undead and constructs too. And holy crap, the bard is indeed the only class (other than the monk) that get instant death effects in Pathfinder. It looks like the bard may be Pathfinder's equivalent to the 3e cleric, the lame class from previous editions that gets overcorrected and powered up to absurdity.

[Draco_Argentum]

Or some stupid lolz troll.

Funnily enough thats what I'm arguing against. We aren't here for the lulz. Starting a feud between TDG and Paizo isn't going to help, its just going to cause internet drama. That makes it exactly the sort of thing that a lulz troll would do.

The 3.P forum contains an anti-thought fanboi crew. Thats the way it is, leave it alone or go there to rant about it. Or go there and try to make a difference.

[Voss]

Wow. the bardic 'performance' effects don't seem to have any tags, or they're buried in that wall of text I'm just trying to skim. An equivalent of Mass hold monster at level 14 isn't horrible.

Yep. More interesting is the fact that, since that ability doesn't have compulsion or mind-affecting tags, it works on undead and constructs too. And holy crap, the bard is indeed the only class (other than the monk) that get instant death effects in Pathfinder. It looks like the bard may be Pathfinder's equivalent to the 3e cleric, the lame class from previous editions that gets overcorrected and powered up to absurdity.

The ranger gets one too, against each of his favored enemies once/day/enemy.

[Absentminded_Wizard]

Oops. That's what I get for assuming that, since the hatred of the ranger had died down somewhat post 3.5, they wouldn't get the super power up. And for only reading the parts of Alpha 3 that became major bones of contention on the Paizo boards.