Mearls Speaks of 4E
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The cleric does cast Searing Light at one stage. Deep joy.
"We were all shit".
Seriously. That was a super-easy encounter, and I can't begin to count the number of ways in which even that turdflock party could have walked it. WoTC must have been using players like that to determine balance for classes in 3.x. If your idea of a good thing to do with your spells is spamming evocations (yeah, I know, Warmage FTW!) and your party's only other significant contribution to ranged attacking is a concept based entirely around the opponents being vulnerable to critical hits, you're screwed before you start.
They really were spectacularly dumb. If nothing else, having talked that cringe-inducingly awful dwarven bard character into staying with the Shadow Spider... who'd actually go back for him?!
He missed one:ASEO wrote:Problems the party had:
The couldn’t get past the huge elemental to get into the room to attack the Salamander
The Elemental was immune to the critical hits from Marcus’ Order of the Bow ability.
The Elemental two +17 attacks with a 15 foot reach that do (2d8+4 plus 2d8 fire)
None of the PC’s had any fire protection since they were not expecting this type of being to be bound in a tomb of a Wind Duke. (Maybe the door to the room should be hot to the touch)
To attack the Elemental, they had to bunch up in the hallway where they were perfect targets for the Salamander’s three fireballs.
Even when they hit the elemental, they were unable to do much damage partly because of the DR 5/-
"We were all shit".
Seriously. That was a super-easy encounter, and I can't begin to count the number of ways in which even that turdflock party could have walked it. WoTC must have been using players like that to determine balance for classes in 3.x. If your idea of a good thing to do with your spells is spamming evocations (yeah, I know, Warmage FTW!) and your party's only other significant contribution to ranged attacking is a concept based entirely around the opponents being vulnerable to critical hits, you're screwed before you start.
They really were spectacularly dumb. If nothing else, having talked that cringe-inducingly awful dwarven bard character into staying with the Shadow Spider... who'd actually go back for him?!
Lol. Age of Worms is the Natural Selection for horrible players. I've ran one before, and had a better party than this. I almost TPKed them in the very first fight of the campaign, then almost TPKed them again in the second fight... One actually died here, because the entire party tried to run across Brown Mold for some reason which resulted in him collapsing unconscious and being left behind while the rest of the group wakes up an enemy, and another enemy takes his sweet time strangling the straggler.
OK, I stopped reading the link because the characters were so horrible I couldn't see anything good coming from this, but...
12th level characters noticed DR 5/- ? What the hell?
I was always curious about the Order of the Bow initiate. I always kind of suspected that they were hidden crap- nice to see some verification. Given that for the first 5 levels, you do more damage by just making all your attacks rather than using your 'special' precision attack, it seems rather pointless.
And hurrah for someone posting a party that makes a huge distinction between 'unoptimized' and 'just downright stupid'.
12th level characters noticed DR 5/- ? What the hell?
I was always curious about the Order of the Bow initiate. I always kind of suspected that they were hidden crap- nice to see some verification. Given that for the first 5 levels, you do more damage by just making all your attacks rather than using your 'special' precision attack, it seems rather pointless.
And hurrah for someone posting a party that makes a huge distinction between 'unoptimized' and 'just downright stupid'.
Last edited by Voss on Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I couldn't agree more; dreadful though most of the characters were in their own right, it *still* staggers me that they were able to forge the results of some of those encounters from 18-carat fail.
As you say, 12th-level characters noticing DR 5/- is... odd. I reckon I've got characters in my 7th-to-8th-level group at the moment who could solo that encounter, without advanced warning; and they don't even have any items to speak of.
EDIT: I'm actually going to try that very thing, this week. Dollars to doughnuts nobody even ends up unconscious, let alone dead.
As you say, 12th-level characters noticing DR 5/- is... odd. I reckon I've got characters in my 7th-to-8th-level group at the moment who could solo that encounter, without advanced warning; and they don't even have any items to speak of.
EDIT: I'm actually going to try that very thing, this week. Dollars to doughnuts nobody even ends up unconscious, let alone dead.
Last edited by Amra on Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Yeah, honestly I'm kind of surprised that 4E went in a completely different direction than 3E.Roy wrote:Fun fact: The 3.0 Druid got basically no screen time. Well, she got a little, but that's it. They shipped the PHBs, then realized 'Oops, the 3rd level Druid's Grizzly Bear is superior to Tordek the 3rd level Fighter in every way!' and tried to fix it in the DMG.
Despite that, in 3.5 they fucked up in much the same way again because their playtest druid was meleeing on 10 strength with a WF and Imp Crit backed Scimitar, as well as PBS and Far Shot to support throwing spears and Scribe Scroll and Track to round it off. No wonder they missed that even weaker ACs were still superior to certain entire classes, not to mention the fun of spells and/or Natural Spell and so forth.
With a history of blatant, repeated mistakes is it really any surprise 4.0 is comprised of Epic Fucking Fail?
Instead of just vomiting up any idea they can think of on a page without any remote concern whether it's balanced or not, they ended up giving the axe to everything that was even remotely complex.
Of course, I figure 4E is totally going into the ground when the splatbooks start getting released. WotC eventually will go back to its old ways of just writing super imbalanced material. And in a padded sumo environment, those imbalances are going to totally destroy the game.
Last edited by RandomCasualty2 on Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The playtest link seems to have been broken. If yes, does anyone have a copy?
Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.
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The failtest. It has scarred my eyes. I feel like a Greenland shark.Psychic Robot wrote:Don't click it. It causes much pain.
http://www.uni-oldenburg.de/zoomorphology/NGS2.html
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
Oh gawd...I have to call out the highlights. Maybe that will make the screaming stop.
Ahh...no more.
Round 1 of dragon combat wrote:Huckabee Leafbiter poured a potion of ‘Cure Light Wounds’ on his mount
Umm...doesn't that happen automatically when the dragon attacks, flies overhead, or roars?Round 2 wrote:The Dragon uses its Frightful presence which leaves Sarah and Raven shaken.
Shelly: the pacifist cleric.Shelly vs. the Ghoul wrote:Shelly tries to turn the Ghoul and fails
*
Shelly fails a second turning attempt
*
Shelly moves to flank the Ghoul with Raven
*
Shelly moves, avoiding an AoO to set up Huckabee for the flank attack
Homebrew AD&D magic items FTW!Sarah the Obsessive Mage wrote:Sarah casts ‘Magic Missile’ but fails to overcome the SR
Sarah hits the Ghoul with ‘Magic Missile’ (for 25 pts)
Sarah hits the ghoul with another salvo of ‘Magic Missiles’ (for 20 pts)
Sarah follows that up with a salvo of ‘Magic Missiles’ that fail to overcome the ghoul’s SR
Sarah kills one of the remaining Belkers with ‘Magic Missile’
Sarah uses her Wand of Magic Missiles and picks off one of the two remaining Belkers (6 pts damage)
Sarah blasts one of the shadows with ‘Magic Missiles’ (for 18 pts)
Sarah ‘Magic Missiles’ the Fleeing shadow and moves into the north west corner of the room to keep line of sight.
Sarah casts ‘Magic Missile’ hitting the wounded Xorn for 21 points and killing it.
Sarah peppers the Xorn with ‘Magic Missiles’ (for 19)
Sarah fires a ‘Magic Missile’ from a wand to see if it will hurt the whirlwind… it does (for 5)
Sarah finishes off Mohrg 3 with a ‘Magic Missile’ salvo
Sarah hits Moreto with ‘Magic Missiles’ (for 17)
Huckabee electrifies his axe and shield (some magical items I created, for this character I changed the war hammer into an axe. The people at The Forge website illustrated them for me)
“Lightning” Battle Axe, +1/+2 vs. Evil Humanoids
&
“Thunder” Medium Steel Shield +1
When “Lightning” is struck against “Thunder” (standard action) a loud thunder clap sounds (-20 to move silently, unless in the middle of a thunder storm). This effectively blinds any creature within 60ft with Tremor Sense, or any creature that relies on sound as sight for 1 round.
Additionally, when “Lightning” strikes “Thunder”, both the war hammer and the shield obtain an electrical charge. This charge lasts for 3d4 rounds. The charge on “Lightning” will be released with a successful hit with the weapon. This does an additional d10 points of electrical damage to the target.
The charge on “Thunder” will be released if a foe strikes at “Thunder's” wielder and misses by 3 or less. This charge does d10 damage to the attacking foe. The wielder of “Thunder”, if fighting defensively or using Expertise, may add the +AC bonus to the 3 miss range as it is supposed that they are actively defending with “Thunder”. (example: A fighter taking a +2 AC bonus through the Expertise Feat would dissipate the charge on “Thunder” if he is missed by 5 or less).
These items may only hold one charge at a time. Should the charge on one of these items be dissipated, the charge may be transferred from the other item by touching the two items (this does not generate the thunder clap, and counts as a standard action).
Should the charge on one or both of these items not be discharged before the 3d4 rounds, the wielded of these items takes d10 damage from the electrical charge as it dissipates on its own. The charge may only be discharged on living matter and does not affect undead or other non living creatures (Constructs for example).
The wielder of “Lightning” and “Thunder” receives Resist Elements Electricity 12 against lightning bolts as long as both items are in hand.
“Lightning” Battle Axe, +1/+2 vs. Evil Humanoids
&
“Thunder” Medium Steel Shield +1
When “Lightning” is struck against “Thunder” (standard action) a loud thunder clap sounds (-20 to move silently, unless in the middle of a thunder storm). This effectively blinds any creature within 60ft with Tremor Sense, or any creature that relies on sound as sight for 1 round.
Additionally, when “Lightning” strikes “Thunder”, both the war hammer and the shield obtain an electrical charge. This charge lasts for 3d4 rounds. The charge on “Lightning” will be released with a successful hit with the weapon. This does an additional d10 points of electrical damage to the target.
The charge on “Thunder” will be released if a foe strikes at “Thunder's” wielder and misses by 3 or less. This charge does d10 damage to the attacking foe. The wielder of “Thunder”, if fighting defensively or using Expertise, may add the +AC bonus to the 3 miss range as it is supposed that they are actively defending with “Thunder”. (example: A fighter taking a +2 AC bonus through the Expertise Feat would dissipate the charge on “Thunder” if he is missed by 5 or less).
These items may only hold one charge at a time. Should the charge on one of these items be dissipated, the charge may be transferred from the other item by touching the two items (this does not generate the thunder clap, and counts as a standard action).
Should the charge on one or both of these items not be discharged before the 3d4 rounds, the wielded of these items takes d10 damage from the electrical charge as it dissipates on its own. The charge may only be discharged on living matter and does not affect undead or other non living creatures (Constructs for example).
The wielder of “Lightning” and “Thunder” receives Resist Elements Electricity 12 against lightning bolts as long as both items are in hand.
MartinHarper wrote:Babies are difficult to acquire in comparison to other sources of nutrition.
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Shouldn't Sarah be, you know, using useful spells? Not that magic missile is bad, but there are 5th-level spells and stuff she could be casting. I think. Unless that commoner level pooped all over her. Let me check...
Well, it pooped on her, but she has 5th-level spells.
I'm really tempted to threadnecro, but I know it's wrong.
Well, it pooped on her, but she has 5th-level spells.
I'm really tempted to threadnecro, but I know it's wrong.
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Ant wrote:You do not seem to do anything.Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?
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Thanks. Fvck.
Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.
Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)
brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!
LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.
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Feel free. Its particularly bad with the 'big road block' of the fire elemental and salamander encounter, since there are a good handful of cold-typed spells to throw at the fire monsters. Two orbs of cold will put down a noble salamander with average die rolls.Psychic Robot wrote:Shouldn't Sarah be, you know, using useful spells? Not that magic missile is bad, but there are 5th-level spells and stuff she could be casting. I think. Unless that commoner level pooped all over her. Let me check...
Well, it pooped on her, but she has 5th-level spells.
I'm really tempted to threadnecro, but I know it's wrong.
Even if the player isn't game savvy enough to know that, pulling out the cold spells seems an obvious response to fire monsters.
Last edited by Voss on Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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FWIW, it looks like the commoner levels were "free"...this was effectively an 11th-level party.
Note the class breakdown:
Fighter 5/Bard 6 = 11
Commoner1/Fighter 1/Cleric 10 = 11 + commoner
Commoner1/Warmage 11 = 11 + commoner
Ninja 11
Warrior 1/Fighter 4/Order of the Bow Initiate 7 = 11 + warrior
Note the class breakdown:
Fighter 5/Bard 6 = 11
Commoner1/Fighter 1/Cleric 10 = 11 + commoner
Commoner1/Warmage 11 = 11 + commoner
Ninja 11
Warrior 1/Fighter 4/Order of the Bow Initiate 7 = 11 + warrior
MartinHarper wrote:Babies are difficult to acquire in comparison to other sources of nutrition.
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There is a thread on party composition (as in, actual parties people are running through the adventure path). Its... pretty bad.
http://paizo.com/dungeon/messageboards/ ... omposition
The first page includes gems like:
http://paizo.com/dungeon/messageboards/ ... omposition
The first page includes gems like:
And I'm not even going to ask.Elf monk lvl 5 - from the Twilight Monastary and the main fighter of the group
and
two mage types from the Emporium.
The first is a hermaphrodite 1/2 elf who is a healer using a slightly different form of magic than most and the second is an over-sexed prostitute who uses the same form of magic.
Last edited by Voss on Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
How the fuck it this suppose to work? Adding Dwarf is just plain weird.Talisman wrote: Fighter 5/Bard 6 = 11
A band-aid...great, well it doesn't like this character is hurting for work.Commoner1/Fighter 1/Cleric 10 = 11 + commoner
Even without the commoner level this character is still being played dumb (cast fucking cold spell on the fire creatures)Commoner1/Warmage 11 = 11 + commoner
Like a rogue but you pay dearly for looking coolNinja 11
It's pretty bad when a character needs free BAB and hp.Warrior 1/Fighter 4/Order of the Bow Initiate 7 = 11 + warrior