The Gaming Den

I find scars on most fantasy characters to be rather cliche.

-Crissa

I've been of the idea that I well, I add in major injuries, or really, just "injuries" in general to a character's profile.

A RoW barbarian that (ab)uses Blitz is going to be one badass looking person. They're fully functioning as a person, no maimed limbs, or spongey head; but their skin is like a patterned surface in scars. Honestly, that just makes sense. If you get cut the heck out in every fight, you should probably be covered in scars.

Regenerate being used to clean skin, and restore it to it's original state, however, is something that I'm fine with. Not every character concept can "accept" the premise "keep every injury as a scar"; and that's fine. A pretty-boy adventurer with a ragged black scar that runs from their shaved scalp down to their waist isn't a bad thing. Neither is a female adventurer who has lots of reasons for a nose broken multiple times, and looking like they've had to crawl out of the ass-end of a battalion of Gruumsh's orcs on Acheron, looking like they've been dragged through a field of spinning morningstars and axes.

It should also be noted that... almost every time that a PC dies, or gets very close to death, there's a learning experience. Each scar, could in some way, be viewed as a badge of learning some sort of lesson.

This idea is even used in more modern fiction, in William Gibson's Idoru, one of the characters, a Tazmanian ex-con who saved the life of a rockstar at a prison concert, has a very nasty scar. His one side of his face is covered in smooth scar tissue, and his ear is missing. When he's nervous, he rubs the remains of his missing ear. When the protagonist asks him why he hasn't got it fixed, (with the sort of Cyberpunk tech that the later Gibson books now have (he's writing 'closer' to the present now, funny enough)) the Rockstar's bodyguard responds something regarding to how he lost the ear due to a fault in memory; and maintains the scar to maintain memory.

CA wrote:He might not have any harpy scars, but he'd have a purple worm scar from a week ago, a couple old cauterized stab wounds from salamanders he fought last month, maybe a missing eye or ear for when the evil Duke Badinov hewed him down as a callow youth which motivated him to protect the weak and small.

I don't get it. Do healing spells not work?

Where does it say healing magic doesn't allow scarring to take place?

I might be wrong because my memory isn't perfect, but I don't recall anything that says anything either way. Which means it's DM's call.

CA wrote:I might be wrong because my memory isn't perfect, but I don't recall anything that says anything either way. Which means it's DM's call.

Exactly. The only reason a character would have scars is either because the DM says the players gain scars whenever they get injured, or because the character wants them.

I gotta say... I'm not really interested in playing in a world where all the interesting guys look like walking piles of scar tissue. Thanks, but no thanks.

Hey, Deadpool's a sexy beast.

anyway, I give characters scars when it fits. My favourite is covered with them in a picture I did of him specifically to show off his scarred body, each with a label as to what it's from.

Maj wrote:

CA wrote:I might be wrong because my memory isn't perfect, but I don't recall anything that says anything either way. Which means it's DM's call.

Exactly. The only reason a character would have scars is either because the DM says the players gain scars whenever they get injured, or because the character wants them.

I gotta say... I'm not really interested in playing in a world where all the interesting guys look like walking piles of scar tissue. Thanks, but no thanks.

I guess I can understand that. It's probably because I'm biased by my own experiences, as in I've lived a relatively safe live for the past 30 years and have half a dozen or so scars, permanent injuries, bone spurs, and whatnot. I don't see how someone who beats dragons to death to take their stuff doesn't look like motile hamburger.

Catharz wrote:But isn't the greater warrior the one who can defeat an owlbear without getting scarred?

Ehhh.... it's not that.

It's more like,

"Remember the time, when we were a bunch of level 6's; and we faced off against a hill giant and his pack of pet Dire Wolves? That was intense. One guy got smacked with a rock while we were water-walking towards the Giant from our hired boat; and fell into the drink.

Then, an other guy ran into the giants next rock to be thrown, and melded with it, to start swining at the giant, and keeping it from throwing rocks. Then one guy charged it, and he was already injured from the wolves, and the giant got him square in the side of the head? He collapsed and his brains were all over the damned place. We killed the giant, healed the guy who got his head caved in, and then patched up everyone else."

A character who never screws up is sort of lame imo. Scars represent when a character was badly injured. If every fight, then end up covered in cuts and gouges, but they also live through every fight, and can kill almost anything they could be expected to face in a one on one fight, is skill still of concern?

Of course, every opportunity for scars is an other opportunity to find a way to prevent further scars. The low level barbarian who uses Blitz will pick up things to give them more survivablity; usually Damage Reduction or HP. Scrolls of Stoneskin, Adamantine Armour, even feats like Great Fortitude or Survivor Against the Odds.

This is a good point, most of the hardcore badasses of popular fiction are covered with scars, Batman, Vash, Hartigan, Constantine, Cassandra Cain, etc.

Scars mean that you've seen the shit. They're an ever present visual aid and silent testimony to your story. Think about the difference between "Yeah, I was in the concentration camps" and "Yeah, I was there, the Krauts gave me this to remember them by *shows number tattooed on himself*" or the difference between a guy just talking about a narrow escape from a shark, and that same guy pulling up his pant leg to reveal the chunk of missing flesh in his calf.

Okay, I'm putting a stop to this grognard wanking, because I hate grognards.

Prak wrote:This is a good point, most of the hardcore badasses of popular fiction are covered with scars, Batman, Vash, Hartigan, Constantine, Cassandra Cain, etc.

Uh, yeah, THAT'S not true.

This whole conversation just reminds me of grognard wishful thinking, trying to stick their realism dick in places where it doesn't belong. With few exceptions, most heroes in fiction do not have more than just light, fashionable scars, if at all.

Everyone ooos and aaas at Squall's scar, but if Seifer had cut off a chunk of his nose then his fangirl base would be nowhere near as big. Zuko is prime fangirl bait, but if his burn torched his ear AND his nose he'd stop looking 'cool' and start looking 'gross'. People think that Nick Fury and Snake's (both from EFnY and MG) eyepatches look frickin' sweet, but they'd change their tunes if instead they had half-functioning eyes with melted flesh around the sockets.

There is a reason why depictions of fictional heroes don't actually have the kinds of leftover injuries/scars you'd see in real life, if they have them at all.

I ran a character once who insisted on healing naturally after fights he wanted to keep the scars from.

I agree with Lago; Av and Prak are merely fetishizing the concept of scarred beauty due to the fact that it is counterculture. Doing the exact opposite of what is the norm is just as shallow as slavishly adhering to the norm.

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Okay, I'm putting a stop to this grognard wanking, because I hate grognards.

Prak wrote:This is a good point, most of the hardcore badasses of popular fiction are covered with scars, Batman, Vash, Hartigan, Constantine, Cassandra Cain, etc.

Uh, yeah, THAT'S not true.

Yes, it is:
Dark Knight

[imghttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ghxEhv0vVxs/SIXns9d8w6I/AAAAAAAAAVk/8eH114nwTOM/s400/03.jpg[/img]

Alex Ross illustration

It's proving damn near impossible to find a picture online which shows Cassandra's scars, since, apparently, they're almost never actually drawn unless she's partially or fully undressed (tvtropes)

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Okay, I'm putting a stop to this grognard wanking, because I hate grognards.

Prak wrote:This is a good point, most of the hardcore badasses of popular fiction are covered with scars, Batman, Vash, Hartigan, Constantine, Cassandra Cain, etc.

Uh, yeah, THAT'S not true.

This whole conversation just reminds me of grognard wishful thinking, trying to stick their realism dick in places where it doesn't belong. With few exceptions, most heroes in fiction do not have more than just light, fashionable scars, if at all.

Everyone ooos and aaas at Squall's scar, but if Seifer had cut off a chunk of his nose then his fangirl base would be nowhere near as big. Zuko is prime fangirl bait, but if his burn torched his ear AND his nose he'd stop looking 'cool' and start looking 'gross'. People think that Nick Fury and Snake's (both from EFnY and MG) eyepatches look frickin' sweet, but they'd change their tunes if instead they had half-functioning eyes with melted flesh around the sockets.

There is a reason why depictions of fictional heroes don't actually have the kinds of leftover injuries/scars you'd see in real life, if they have them at all.

That does bring up some good arguments. The only really heavily scarred hero I can think of are Deadpool and Jonah Hex. Probably more exist, but you're right that most people have small, minor scars in media.

Mask_De_H wrote:I agree with Lago; Av and Prak are merely fetishizing the concept of scarred beauty due to the fact that it is counterculture. Doing the exact opposite of what is the norm is just as shallow as slavishly adhering to the norm.

Well, you're wrong, but you can believe whatever you want. Scars have meaning, and the revulsion most people have to them is silly.

...but then, if precivilization standards of mate selection applied these days I'd be neck deep in pussy...

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Okay, I'm putting a stop to this grognard wanking, because I hate grognards.

Prak wrote:This is a good point, most of the hardcore badasses of popular fiction are covered with scars, Batman, Vash, Hartigan, Constantine, Cassandra Cain, etc.

Uh, yeah, THAT'S not true.

This whole conversation just reminds me of grognard wishful thinking, trying to stick their realism dick in places where it doesn't belong. With few exceptions, most heroes in fiction do not have more than just light, fashionable scars, if at all.

Everyone ooos and aaas at Squall's scar, but if Seifer had cut off a chunk of his nose then his fangirl base would be nowhere near as big. Zuko is prime fangirl bait, but if his burn torched his ear AND his nose he'd stop looking 'cool' and start looking 'gross'. People think that Nick Fury and Snake's (both from EFnY and MG) eyepatches look frickin' sweet, but they'd change their tunes if instead they had half-functioning eyes with melted flesh around the sockets.

There is a reason why depictions of fictional heroes don't actually have the kinds of leftover injuries/scars you'd see in real life, if they have them at all.

That does bring up some good arguments. The only really heavily scarred hero I can think of are Deadpool and Jonah Hex. Probably more exist, but you're right that most people have small, minor scars in media.

four of the five I mentioned don't. Batman's even often described, in grittier works, as having skin like a roadmap, Vash's are shown in one episode and they are extensive and hideous, Hartigan practically looks like hamburger, and Cassandra Cain, apparently, has scars all over her body due to her father's "pain resistance" training. The key thing is that Batman's scars are all below the neck, Vahs's major ones are all below the neck (iirc, he has a minor one on his face), and the artists just don't show Cassandra's because she's supposed to be pretty. She has them, we just don't see them.

edit: Here, this seems to show some of Cassandra's scars:

RE: Cassandra picture. That's supposed to be scarring? She looks more like she got scuffed up playing soccer or amateur wrestling. That's not a fucking scar.

PA wrote:Batman's even often described, in grittier works, as having skin like a roadmap

Okay. Name a Batman cartoon or a Batman movie where Batman looks like this underneath his armor.

For someone with Batman's lifestyle, he has skin like a baby. This is intentional.

PA wrote:Vahs's major ones are all below the neck (iirc, he has a minor one on his face)

PA wrote:It's proving damn near impossible to find a picture online which shows Cassandra's scars, since, apparently, they're almost never actually drawn unless she's partially or fully undressed (tvtropes)

She has them, we just don't see them.

Vash's scars are not very visible because of that stupid red coat before. I also found that 'reveal' of what his body really looks like intensely stupid instead of cool. I mean, really, steel plating on the pecs? There are some things you should port over and some you should just leave in the manga.

GEE, I WONDER WHY.

PA wrote:Scars have meaning, and the revulsion most people have to them is silly.

No, it's just silly macho fetishism. You may as well ask people why they don't find holes in nice suits or shoes with the soles coming off cool--after all, worn clothes have meaning and have more character than some off-the-shelf CK brand you buy in Neiman Marcus! Why, these pair of dress shoes have been with me since the junior prom, I don't understand why you're saying they look like hobo shoes and should get new ones. They still keep my feet dry and safe.

....you should see the clothes I wear. It's a damned good thing I know how to sew.

Hell, my favourite sweatshirt is about halfway to it's sleeves disintegrating...

But no, it's not some silly macho fetish thing, not for me anyway, I just don't see anything wrong with scars. Of course I don't see anything wrong with cannibalism either, so maybe I'm just bizarre and socially maladjusted.

Judging Eagle wrote:It's more like,

"Remember the time, when we were a bunch of level 6's; and we faced off against a hill giant and his pack of pet Dire Wolves? That was intense...

As far as my selective memory can recall, scars in stories have pretty deep meanings to the characters. Their scars are representative of some emotionally related, horrible trauma the character endured.

That's not the same thing as getting a scar in your fairly regular D&D battle.

If you say that healing magic doesn't prevent scars, then you're going to end up with characters who have a lot of markings that don't mean much. It's the ability to have scars only sometimes - even in the stories - that gives meaning to the characters' scars.

This is becoming every thread on permanently blind PCs ever.

Prak_Anima wrote:I just don't see anything wrong with scars. Of course I don't see anything wrong with cannibalism either, so maybe I'm just bizarre and socially maladjusted.

I think you are, yeah.

Scars reduce prettiness.

Scars reduce prettiness.

But they increase manliness.

Psychic Robot wrote:

Scars reduce prettiness.

But they increase manliness.

Or the pity factor.

and some people don't care about being pretty.

I personally love the scars I have on my arms, chest, and back. Legs, I'd rather avoid them. Face, I'd definitely rather avoid them. On the torso and arms, scars are manly and don't detract from attractiveness much while giving an excuse to tell that girl a story of one time you were hardcore after you took your shirt off because you wanted to show off your abs. Scars on the face are just unattractive.

At least, that's been my experience.