Dogbert wrote:Lago PARANOIA wrote:I've always wondered: when people say 'PCs should only involuntarily die if they're doing stupid things' what exactly do they mean by that?
"Doing stupid things" = not reading the GM's mind.
That line is a favorite among crap GMs who either fail to inform their players of their game's genre conventions or for whom every single challenge has to be a bottleneck with one and only one solution.
No, you are just a retard. You are so buttsore over past DMs you had that you cannot see that a player could be a fool. Has nothing to with the a DM being bad or good, but a player being a retard.
if you play ToEE today, then you voluntarily enter it. When it first came out, it was still a stupid thing to do then too.
The character that wants to try to swim in lava... this is a stupid thing. yup, they should die. it is common sense those thing you shouldnt attempt to do.
the sad part is the stupid players cant see them as stupid, because stupid is blind to stupid, so rather than admitting they ARE stupid, they just blame the DMs for being bad.
wold you honestly beg and plead a DM to NOT have the character die if you watched their player try to swim in lava?
voluntary tins would be entering a combat. the player choose to have combat rather than avoid it. maybe the lava is voluntary as well, but then i cant think of a single thing outside of a trap that would be involuntary? and the lava could have been illusioned to look like a river of water. but then you should have tested that shit before you jumped in.
deanruel87 wrote:The idea that games need loss or death in order to be games is also wrong.
you are just plain stupid.
you don't understand RPGs or that they are a simulated life of the character that goes on adventures. Minecraft is an electronic toy, not a game. many things labeled games just because people "play" them have been stupid for a long time. a game has a risk of failure. Minecraft is a computer toy. competitive games from sports, to Monopoly, etc have the risk of "you didn't win".
you and many others confuse "games" with "toys" because some industry labeled them that way. Games have a goal, toy are thing you just play with to play with.
the industry chose "games" because toys are seen as for children and they wanted to avoid such connotations to get the people with the money to afford them to buy them.
what you want is a toy. you dont want the jacks, to play a game with, you just want to bounce the rubber ball around.
"childrens imaginary games" are TOYS, imaginative toys, just like a IG Basalisk is only a toy, unless you field a commander and about a million IG along with it against an opposing army then you have WH40K, which is a game, that uses those TOYS in which to play it.
this namby-pamby psychobabble to make people feel like special snowflakes by calling things games that are not, because it would confuse them can go to hell or stay in psychobabble land with the psychotics.
death is one of the ONLY risks in an adventure RPG, because everything else can be replaced from the possessions to personal connections with NPCs etc to even the character. and being a game made so that you didnt have to stop playing after the one session, and could continue the next time you play, the character death is NOT final unless that is agreed upon, thus why there are ways for bring them back to life. this way people can choose what level of risk they want from the game. the goal rmains the same, the loss remains the same. YOU LOST THAT CHARACTER FOR A TIME. you took the risk, you have to take the good and the bad that comes with the risk taken with that character. even if it means you do not get to participate for an hour or two
it DOES belong in games bcause people want it their. stop being goyf and trying to force everyone to play without it because you don't want it, just find people to play with that want the same fucking kind of game you do and just play with them. everyone doesnt have to agree that the stupid shit you want to play is the ONETRUEWAY to play.
this "no child left behind" stupid shit where you get rewarded for participating need to stay in the workplace and nowhere else, because even there you can be rewarded more for more effort, but everyone has to get something for participating. it doesnt belong forced as the only method for EVERYONE to HAVE to play all games by. that is where human have the right to choose.
PoliteNewb wrote:Typically, they hang around, eat snacks, and watch the rest of the play session...because they are still a part of the group, even if there guy is dead, and have some sort of emotional investment in the outcome of the adventure.
i think this new breed of gamer doesn't even think about this. they don't get to DO anything except sit and watch, so they don't think they ar a part of anything and fail to see their actions prior to death DID play a part in the outcome, be it good or TPK.
they are just a bunch of attention whores.
i wonder how they watch movies since they don't get to participate? same thing after your character dies, you are watching a movie until you have a chance to jump in again. it is a movie (unless recorded in this day and age) that nobody else in the world or in time will ever get to see. and it will help to pay attention so when a new character shows up you can jsut assume the "history" of the group they are joining because they dont have to verbally share everything that happened, only tell you which parts that happened that they choose to not tell the new character...like how his old one died cause the group sacrificed him and they all got loot and accolades that they are not willing to share with the new-born character right away or at all.
deanruel87 wrote:You still must be aware that it is a good game design goal to minimize the amount of time your game forces people to stop playing your game.
and yet people still buy Monopoly, basketballs, etc. anything with an elimination style tournament that prevents people from playing the game because they were eliminated from the "game" would then not sell, but MtG sales are solid and growing. here is the thing, people can still play against the other that got knocked out of a tournament.
also with the world of today, nobody is left out cause half the gamers are probably already playing on their phones and not paying attention to the RPG anyway, so it isnt like they have nothing to do while they wait.
you seem to want a childs plaything, rather than a game for mature adults. mature meaning not sexual content or such, but those who are not going around throwing temper tantrums because they dont get to participate every single moment that they want to.
have you tried Fisher Price? they might have just the types of things you are looking for, for your maturity level.