Good and Evil in D&D

[angelfromanotherpin]

Do these conspiracies ever have goals, or just methods?

I mean, the monists are conspiring to make people confused as to the moral nature of the universe, but are dollars or blowjobs for the conspiracy members supposed to come out of that somehow? In the same vein, was there a theory for how anyone benefited from keeping people from seeing mineral auras?

[Username17]

Do these conspiracies ever have goals, or just methods?

I mean, the monists are conspiring to make people confused as to the moral nature of the universe, but are dollars or blowjobs for the conspiracy members supposed to come out of that somehow? In the same vein, was there a theory for how anyone benefited from keeping people from seeing mineral auras?

It's basically impossible to tell. Paralogic being what it is, any of the things the grand conspiracy does could be the "goals." The goals don't even have to be connected in any logical way to the methods, because schizophrenia is all about making thought leaps that don't make sense.

So the conspiracy could have really grounded sounding goals like "make money" or "acquire bitches" and the previous named step could be "interfere with the aura perception of enlightened people" or "change the names of bakeries" or something. You're basically dealing with the underpants gnomes, there doesn't need to be a step 2, because to the schizophrenic mind the leap from "steal underpants" to "profit" is so obvious that it doesn't need to be explained.

-Username17

[nockermensch]

Do these conspiracies ever have goals, or just methods?

I mean, the monists are conspiring to make people confused as to the moral nature of the universe, but are dollars or blowjobs for the conspiracy members supposed to come out of that somehow? In the same vein, was there a theory for how anyone benefited from keeping people from seeing mineral auras?

It's basically impossible to tell. Paralogic being what it is, any of the things the grand conspiracy does could be the "goals." The goals don't even have to be connected in any logical way to the methods, because schizophrenia is all about making thought leaps that don't make sense.

So the conspiracy could have really grounded sounding goals like "make money" or "acquire bitches" and the previous named step could be "interfere with the aura perception of enlightened people" or "change the names of bakeries" or something. You're basically dealing with the underpants gnomes, there doesn't need to be a step 2, because to the schizophrenic mind the leap from "steal underpants" to "profit" is so obvious that it doesn't need to be explained.

-Username17

One of the most weird things I ever experienced was one time I came down with a fever of 41ºC and hallucinated. During that fever I became convinced that atomic missiles were being being fired and I had to alert people. Remembering the event afterwards, I think it's mostly an intrusion of dream-like logic into your waking state. "The atomic war is starting" had became a self-evident truth.

So yeah, I can understand how that mindset works. It's sad and scary.

[Dean]

I think it's mostly an intrusion of dream-like logic into your waking state. "The atomic war is starting" had became a self-evident truth.

So yeah, I can understand how that mindset works. It's sad and scary.

That is exactly how lucid schizophrenics have described it and it is a chilling thing to understand. Anyone who's ever not been able to remember whether something was a dream or an actual event has experienced a shade of the horror they have to live with. The dream state of not being certain of reality or it's rules or your past or the future is a good analogy. The beliefs they express about the world can seem confusing at first but make more sense when you remember that they have all seen and heard and remembered things that have never happened and did not need to obey the rules of reality that you know.

The philosophical question "What if we couldn't even trust our senses" used most often as a simple hypothetical is a genuine, valid description of the life of most people you've met shaking a can for change.

[Voss]

a genuine, valid description of the life of most people you've met shaking a can for change.

Wow, Mr Psychologist. I'm glad you've clinically diagnosed every street performer, homeless person, and economically bereft person on the planet. When do you start carting them off to the sanatoriums and work houses? Or shall it be prisons instead, Mr. Scrooge?

[fbmf]

The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?

Game On,
fbmf

[ubernoob]

The philosophical question "What if we couldn't even trust our senses" used most often as a simple hypothetical is a genuine, valid description of the life of most people you've met shaking a can for change.

Not to get all clinical, but I have had documented episodes where I was dead sober and had visual and auditory hallucinations. The girl my cousin is engaged too, who graduates nursing school in a week used the word psychosis when I described the episodes. It can be pretty terrifying. Haven't had an episode in a while though.

[Dean]

Wow, Mr Psychologist. I'm glad you've clinically diagnosed every street performer, homeless person, and economically bereft person on the planet. When do you start carting them off to the sanatoriums and work houses? Or shall it be prisons instead, Mr. Scrooge?

Shut up? The rates of schizophrenia in the homeless are literally 10 times higher than in the average population. 10 times. Like by a multiple of ten. I learned that while studying for my degree in Psychology. Making the jump to me not wanting increased care for those needing psychological help is both completely baseless and the opposite of correct.

Not to get all clinical, but I have had documented episodes where I was dead sober and had visual and auditory hallucinations. The girl my cousin is engaged too, who graduates nursing school in a week used the word psychosis when I described the episodes. It can be pretty terrifying. Haven't had an episode in a while though.

Schizophrenia exists on a spectrum. It's not like syphilis where you just have it or you don't. It's not exactly binary. There are people, like yourself possibly, who have schizophrenic symptoms like hallucinations infrequently enough that their lives are not adversely affected by them so they won't qualify as a clinical schizophrenic. It is possible for that to change though as schizophrenic symptoms can get "instigated" by stressful or traumatic life events. So maybe don't get addicted to heroine and lose all your loved ones. Is that valuable advice?

[Foxwarrior]

I feel like either deanruel87 hasn't yet realized he said "most people you've met shaking a can for change", or he thinks that at least 5% of non-homeless people are schizophrenic.

[ubernoob]

Schizophrenia exists on a spectrum. It's not like syphilis where you just have it or you don't. It's not exactly binary. There are people, like yourself possibly, who have schizophrenic symptoms like hallucinations infrequently enough that their lives are not adversely affected by them so they won't qualify as a clinical schizophrenic. It is possible for that to change though as schizophrenic symptoms can get "instigated" by stressful or traumatic life events. So maybe don't get addicted to heroine and lose all your loved ones. Is that valuable advice?

Yeah, every time I had an episode with full blown auditory and visual replacement, there was some sort of high stress trigger. Could all be bad acid flashbacks though. On the other hand there are bits of crazy in both sides of my family tree (bipolar, suicide attempts, alcoholism, extreme acts of violence, etc). Once I have health coverage I plan to see a doctor about it. For the time being, I just need to live long enough to crawl out of poverty.

[Dean]

I feel like either deanruel87 hasn't yet realized he said "most people you've met shaking a can for change", or he thinks that at least 5% of non-homeless people are schizophrenic.

I didn't think my statements were going to be given that level of literalism. "Most people you've met shaking a can" is me speaking evocatively rather than making numerical statements on a quantifiable population. 51% of the homeless are not schizophrenic but more than one in ten are and as clinical schizophrenia affects less than a single percent of the normal population that is a dramatic and telling figure.

Yeah, every time I had an episode with full blown auditory and visual replacement, there was some sort of high stress trigger.

That is extremely interesting. If you don't feel uncomfortable saying so I'm curious what it was like to experience.

[ubernoob]

I'm way off topic at this point, but do not want to have a whole thread about Uber's hallucinations so I'm just going to spoiler this.

That is extremely interesting. If you don't feel uncomfortable saying so I'm curious what it was like to experience.

There are two times that I recall that can be verified. The first was at a concert and I got lost from my people. Now, I haven't handled crowds well since Bad Acid Trip(tm), but I'm generally fine as long as I have at least one known person in my line of sight. I can socialize fine, it's just that me being alone near large crowds of people is a specific trigger. Anyways, I'd gone to another stage to see a different artist and was coming back to the main stage to find the rest of my people (group of 5+ at least). Searched deep in the crowd around the stage a couple of times, but there were like 30k people at this event. After an hour or so of searching for them and no replies from texts I take a seat outside the main crowd near the doors to the hangar where I have a good line of sight and decide to wait for one of my friends to surface. After about half an hour of waiting, I start to get self conscious and all the sudden literally everyone in sight (like, hundreds of people, all outside of hearing range due to the music) are all staring at me and making snide comments. Everyone that walks within ten feet (out of hearing range still) makes a very clear comment about one of my own personal fears. This goes on for I don't know how long. I just sit, wait, and try not to react to it until one of my friends finds me. When my friends find me, it is still going on but they assure me that not only is no one talking about me, no one is even looking at me. From my end, it looked like everyone in line of sight was making eye contact with me and I was hearing things that rationally people could not be talking loudly enough for me to hear. Even after my friends found me, this persisted the rest of the night. Yes, I was sober this night. No hallucinogens that weekend either. When I woke up the next morning, it had worn off. I was in that state for several hours at least though.

The second time was during basic training. I know for a fact that I'd been stone cold sober for months at that point. My journal entry the night of includes this "I was without my familiar faces for ten minutes in an environment designed to isolate and break you. Heard the voices nearly instantly. Still shaking. Bad moment." That was written hours after the fact. Basically I got split off from my group and the exact same effect of hundreds of people staring at me and talking about me (very clearly at distances I should not have been able to understand) and making very personal insults that no one could possibly know to say.

Now, these are both triggers from the Bad Acid Trip over two years ago where I was fully convinced that I had died for several hours (I got lost in the middle of a bar/club district alone without my phone while tripping the most potent hallucinogen I've ever taken before or after for a while before I convinced myself that I had died). On the other hand, I'm not certain that they fall under just "bad acid trip flashbacks."

But yeah, isolation + crowds + stress can cause uber to hallucinate like a mother fucker in a very bad way. To say that this has had a negative effect on my life would be an understatement. The fact that in the basic training example I had been clean slate sober for months and I got just as strong of a flashback absolutely terrifies me.