The Gaming Den

Heck I wouldn't mind just assuming everyone just has unlimited arrows. Damn things cost 5 copper pieces each anyway.

As for Concentration, I'm fine with doing it the old way (but using your casting stat) or the Pathfinder way (you guys haven't voted on this yet, so... vote on it).

Heads up, I'll be posting somewhat infrequently for a day or three due to some university stuff. So take your time to design new feats if you like. Glad this game is resulting in more Tome Material

Pathfinder way gives casters a free extra skill point, but technically doesn't allow for a +Concentration item to be used. Seems fair so I'll vote for that.

I vote against it because it makes you worse at concentrating.

If we go with a Concentration skill, then Tek has +10 to concentration. If we go PF concentration, Tek has +7. Given that PF adds the level of the spell you're trying to cast to all concentration checks, this is a big thing. It means that there is a serious possibility of me constantly failing to cast.

How does Pathfinder do concentration, exactly?

PF style:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Concentration
highlights:
`your "rank" is always equal to your CL
`always use your casting stat (so probably a small boost compared to using Constitution, that would increase over time)
`defensive cast is 15+2*SpellLevel


Normal style:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/concentration.htm
highlights:
`spend ranks normally (so you'd be at +3 for having it as a class skill)
`always uses Constitution
`defensive cast is 15+SpellLevel

Basically I'll take a free skill, sure. That's why I took Combat Casting, and you don't even have to actually defensive cast all that often really.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Concentration

Basically the same, but your concentration check is d20+caster level+casting stat. The DCs are the same as d20 but you add the level of the spell you're trying to cast to every dc. So you have a smaller bonus and a larger DC (well, at current level.)

What about Pathfinder's check vs the old DCs? Would an extra skill be hugely beneficial to casters?

with the compression of Knowl. skills into other skills, I honestly don't have a ton of skills...

Actually, could we get an actual list of the knowl. skill equivalences?

Arcane> Spellcraft
Dungeoneering> ?
Engineering> ?
Geography> ?
History> ?
Local> ?
Nature> Survival
Nobility> Diplomacy?
Planes> ?
Religion> ?

Well, yes, an extra skill would be better than not an extra skill. You can suddenly have Perception or Sense Motive instead of not having it at all, for example.

I don't feel it's a problem that you sometimes lose a spell if you're a spellcaster in melee. I'd even call it a feature. There's lots of ways to avoid even having to make that check, and there's a feat that lets you Take 10 if you don't wanna roll it. "Help the casters" isn't the worst extra thing to give non-casters a thing to do.

I guess we could use the Old DCs if we really had to.

EDIT:
Knowledge skills given so far

Arcane> Spellcraft
Dungeoneering> ?
Engineering> ?
Geography> ?
History> ?
Local> ?
Nature> Survival
Nobility> Diplomacy / Sense Motive
Planes> Spellcraft / Survival
Religion> Spellcraft

Oh, also, how did the whole wealth thing shake out? It looks like some people have more than two items?

My only real problem with the Pathfinder concentration rules is that, with them and the skill compression rules, the Time Mage gets 5 class skills and 6 skill points per level. If we use the Pathfinder rules, I'd probably end up taking a bunch of cross class ranks in Speak Trollish or whatever.

The wealth ruling is 2 lesser items and 8000gp worth of whatever. You can get 2 more lesser items, a staff of fireballs or a 40k oil flasks.

(don't actually buy 40k oil flasks, that's a terrible choice)

Here's what I'm considering at the moment, though I'm open to changing it up.

Arcane> Spellcraft / UMD
Dungeoneering> Spellcraft / Survival
Engineering> Appraise / Craft / Disable Device / Perception
Geography> Perception / Survival
History> Appraise / Linguistics
Local> Bluff / Diplomacy / Sense Motive
Nature> Handle Animal / Survival
Nobility> Appraise / Diplomacy / Sense Motive
Planes> Spellcraft / Survival
Religion> Spellcraft


The Wealth thing is two magic items and 8000 GP to spend as you wish (Red_Rob's lesser magic items being 4000 GP each)

Yeah, I paid for a bunch of stuff and then stuck a lesser property on both of my weapons. Though, I paid for the weapons separately.

Grek wrote:My only real problem with the Pathfinder concentration rules is that, with them and the skill compression rules, the Time Mage gets 5 class skills and 6 skill points per level.

Well, yeah, but under Pathfinder your max rank in all skills is just your level, and then you get +3 to class skills if you've got at least 1 rank in them.

So yeah, cross class ranks, it's sweet. Can never have enough spotters, or Escape Artist or UMD or whatever.

radthemad4 wrote:And also considering merging Bluff and Disguise, Escape Artist and Sleight of Hand, Ride with whatever's higher between Acrobatics or Athletics (Uses STR in this case), and Handle Animal and Diplomacy.

I vote no more skill merging. We've plenty few skills as it is. Also don't scrap Dungeoneering unless you assign it's creature knowlege types to other skills, because it does cover some of the creature types.

Alternate Idea: Forget about all pathfinder skill rules. Use the totally normal d20/SRD/Tome skill list that we're all used to (1sp=1rank, max rank is HD+3 for class skills, half that for cross-class skills, normal Concentration, normal Knowledge, etc), but also give out +1 skill point after each major encounter. Then people can focus on the things they want with their main skill points and still slowly dabble in other things and unlock "trained only" skills and crap.

EDIT: or we could have bonus skill points while using pathfinder rules, just no more skill merging please. Knowledge is fine, since it just makes the GM tell you stuff about the setting (always a plus), other skills getting merged starts to muddle things up more I think.

With that list, I have all the knowledges covered at +6. So I'm cool with this.

Accounting for Int 10 (+0), class skills, and virtual ranks, I have:

K(Arcana) +4
K(Dungeon) +1
K(Engineering) +3
K(Geography) +3
K(History) +0
K(Local) +3
K(Nature) +1
K(Nobility) +6
K(Planes) +4
K(Religion) +1

Which all seems perfectly fine

I've got classes in a bit I need to study for and then some homework. I'll check in on the thread as soon as I can.

That plus six was just the "max ranks in related skill, plus the knowl is a class skill." I also have a +4 from Int on top of that, for a total of +10 in all knowledges.

Wow... I apparently haven't been keepign up with the topic. I'll have my character up within a day or so. SOrry for the delay.

Hey, is there a spot still open for this? Tome-style Pathfinder is a weird little itch I've been needing to scratch for a while.

Just dropping by, I'll come online properly in 5 to 7 hours.

Cynic: It's fine, we're still discussing rules anyway.

Mask_De_H: Sure, join in.

One thing though, in PbP, how do you guys typically handle turns? i.e. if whoever's turn it is next is offline, do you swap initiative positioning with the next available player or something?

radthemad4 wrote:Just dropping by, I'll come online properly in 5 to 7 hours.

Cynic: It's fine, we're still discussing rules anyway.

Mask_De_H: Sure, join in.

One thing though, in PbP, how do you guys typically handle turns? i.e. if whoever's turn it is next is offline, do you swap initiative positioning with the next available player or something?

In AH's game we state our actions and he resolves it. I haven't paid attention to initiative order but I think he does it in initiative order.

Alright, I'm keeping the Knowledge thing (it feels kinda wonky, but I don't think it's a big deal) but not merging any more skills together. I'm keeping the Pathfinder skill system as I don't want to deal with half ranks.

radthemad4 wrote:Alright, I'm keeping the Knowledge thing (it feels kinda wonky, but I don't think it's a big deal) but not merging any more skills together. I'm keeping the Pathfinder skill system as I don't want to deal with half ranks.

Even under the "normal" system there's no half-ranks in Tome. Tome rules are that you always get 1 rank for 1 skill point. Cross-class makes your max ranks lower, but you still get 1 for 1.

Then it doesn't really make a difference. Each player can use whatever they're more comfortable with as long as they compute their final skill bonuses correctly.

Btw, any ideas as to how your characters know each other?

radthemad4 wrote:Then it doesn't really make a difference. Each player can use whatever they're more comfortable with as long as they compute their final skill bonuses correctly.

Btw, any ideas as to how your characters know each other?

Wait, no, it makes a difference because the skill lists aren't the same. We need to agree on what the skills that exist are. The whole question came up because PF and Tome have very different Concentration systems, and the group is like half casters.

I don't know how we know each other. Traltex is kinda a wandering wizard type that avoids danger unless there's a clear advantage or a lot of backup. So the rest of the group could be his backup to start, or he could bump into them. Something like that.