[Ars Magica 5] OOC: It's PeIm for darkness, not PeCo

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:00 am

I actually have no problem with the homesteading stuff, I like it even. Hell, have you seen how much I've posted in the various "how can D&D magic bootstrap the peasant class into modernity" threads?

Plus I'm not too far into character creation, so I can build to suit.

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:19 am

Mask_De_H wrote:Another question/observation: they don't give you a lot of points to play around with to buy up Arts just out of apprenticeship. You've got 180 with the recommended minimums and you probably want more abilities and stuff. Is Spontaneous Magic or Fast Casting just not a thing you can really do as an apprentice, or am I missing something?

A typical just-out-of-apprenticeship magician might have scores of around 9 in her best two Arts*. If this is a Form and Technique combo, that'll give her a casting total of 18 plus Stamina plus Aura; let's say that comes out as 20 with a Sta of +2 and in a neutral aura. If she has a Minor Focus (and she should) then that goes up to 29. Buying these two Arts to 9 costs her 60xp from her apprenticeship total, which is eminently affordable.

Therefore, you can spont stuff within your area of focus at around level 15 if you spend fatigue, and around level 5 if you don't. Level 15 is a perfectly respectable level of competence; many of the game's most ubiquitous spells are around that level.

However, your area of competence is wider than just that Form + Technique combo. If your two Arts are, for example, Perdo and Ignem then you'll also be able to cast Perdo spells that aren't Ignem, and Ignem spells that aren't Perdo. Using the same numbers above, that casting total will come out to about 10 plus aura, meaning that you can spont stuff in this area of competence at level 5, or level 2 if you don't spent fatigue.

That's 60xp. If the recommended minimums set you back 90xp, you still have a further 90xp left after that for other stuff.

So you won't be spontaneously casting level 20 effects, and you won't be able to play in fields you don't know anything about; but it's unfair to say that you can't do any spontaneous magic.

---

*She has a best two Arts because she took two Affinities, because of course she did. Always take two Affinities.

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:36 am

Heaven's Thunder Hammer wrote:Basically any magi who are physically poor are either just starting out or too dumb for their own good.

This.

Prak_Anima wrote:I actually have no problem with the homesteading stuff, I like it even. Hell, have you seen how much I've posted in the various "how can D&D magic bootstrap the peasant class into modernity" threads?

In which case, all I can say is welcome home.

momothefiddler · Post by **momothefiddler** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:06 pm

Laertes wrote:Shall we call it a Monday deadline, then? By Monday I'd like people who're involved to give me at least the following:
- Indication as to whether they're in or not
- What sort of character they want to play (a one-liner, like "I want to play a shapeshifter who does weather magic", is entirely adequate and is probably preferable to a detailed biography and full character sheet at this stage in the game.)
- What sort of campaign they want to play (this can include voting for a suggestion from someone else.)

To make sure it's explicit, since I've been kinda rambly...

-I'm in.
-I want to play a magical crafter who puts a lot of effort into building/improving the covenant as a whole
-My first choice is Beyond the Borders

Leetkeis · Post by **Leetkeis** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:30 pm

I much prefer the homesteading option versus the hackneyed adventuring party. I'd rather play Beyond the Borders as After Winter focuses on stolen honour and comparison to the deceased archmagi.

I would like my character to be a bear wizard who gets along excellently with animals, especially other bears. I was leaning towards a nature focus and believe house Bjornaer would be the best option.

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:38 pm

I much prefer the homesteading option versus the hackneyed adventuring party. I'd rather play Beyond the Borders as After Winter focuses on stolen honour and comparison to the deceased archmagi.

I would like my character to be a bear wizard who gets along excellently with animals, especially other bears. I was leaning towards a nature focus and believe house Bjornaer would be the best option.

Welcome, Leetkeis. Having a Bjornaer would certainly be good, and since Prak also wants to play one it looks as though we may get a Bjornaer heavy party. This isn't a bad thing at all - there's enough Bjornaer pie to go around, especially since the two of you are playing with different types of animal and with different types of magic.

If you're into nature focus, the Merinita also have some pretty cool stuff. There's an entire progression of Merinita Inner Mysteries which culminate in you being able to become an area of land and guard it against threats or trespassers.

Mask_De_H · Post by **Mask_De_H** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:38 pm

I'm in as a as a noble liason because I'm not too interested in playing Logistics and Dragons, but want to help the homesteading.

After Winter or Beyond the Border is cool with me.

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:21 pm

So momothefiddler's other friend has dropped out. Prak, you're in.

The signups and preferred scenarios as they currently stand are:

momothefiddler - Beyond the Borders or After Winter
Heaven's Thunder Hammer - After Winter
Prak_Anima
Mask_De_H - After Winter or Beyond the Borders
Leetkeis - Beyond the Borders

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:34 am

I know this is completely unhelpful, but I'm good with either After Winter or Beyond the Borders

Heaven's Thunder Hammer · Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:41 am

Ok, sounds like Laertes gets to decide which one he would prefer to run more.

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:20 am

Does anyone have any hard objections to either?

momothefiddler · Post by **momothefiddler** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:22 am

I don't. As mentioned, I have a mild preference for BtB over AAWCS.

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:49 am

The two people who have expressed a strong opinion are HTH and Leetkeis. Everyone else has said they'd be happy with either.

HTH, reading back, your objection to Beyond the Borders was that you've played through "spring in the woods" covenants too many times and you feel it's no longer interesting for you. That's understandable. From reading about your current campaign, I think you generally seem to prefer a higher-action, higher-powered, higher-magic feel to the game. Which isn't a problem - there will be stuff that needs blowing up - but means that it might be difficult to run that as the "newbie friendly" games that I'd like to do here. Therefore, I think I'm going to have to run a lower-powered, more conventional game than the one you would ideally like.

This isn't to say that I don't want you in the game: I would be honoured to have you play in it and I'll do my best to ensure you have fun.

Therefore, unless there are any hard objections, I am inclined to say let's play Beyond the Borders. Next stop, Ruthenia! Also next stop, chargen!

momothefiddler · Post by **momothefiddler** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:23 pm

Chargen:

For purposes of any cooperation or synergy, here are some of the defining traits of the character I'm working on.

Class Clan House: Ex Miscellanea/Rusticani
Major Hermetic Virtue: Flawless Magic
Affinity Arts: Rego, Terram
Deficiency Arts: Auram, Imaginem
Focus: Making Metal Things

This character's primary role is one of stability, and one of their driving motivations is to provide a safe and nurturing environment for every person under their care (i.e. in the covenant). They identify strongly with mountains and badgers. Also armadillos, if they knew what those were.

I don't have a very concrete background laid out and am open to interweaving it with others.

Heaven's Thunder Hammer · Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:43 pm

Laertes I'll have to think on it if I want to play or not. I kind of do, just not sure the starting up a new covenant is something I can do again.

In my previous Ars Magica Campaign - the Bjornear who took a Bear Heart Form also took Giant Blooded. I should note that made his bear for +4 size or equivalent to a small elephant.

And improved characteristics x2.

And puissant + affinity in brawl.

And enduring constitution (I interpreted it to reduce the wound penalty per wound otherwise it's worthless )

Half the time a would be villian popped he would morph into bear form and EAT THEIR HEAD AND JUST THE HEAD.

And he could do it. It was awesome. Now, in terms of sheer killing power, it was not the greatest build. But in terms of roleplaying? And terrifying the fuck out of enemies? Yea, it worked very well.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:16 pm

I'll put up the limited stuff I have for my character so far:

Nidratr
House: Bjornaer
-Heartbeast: Squirrel
Major Hermetic Virtue: Mythic Blood (Ratatosk, Rising Ire)
Affinity Arts: Probably Herbam and Animal
Deficiency Arts: dunno
Focus: Wood

I'm not entirely sure what his primary role should be. The whole "descendant of Ratatoskr" thing suggests social combat, but I actually suck hard at that sort of thing. I'm going to try to swing Yggdrasil-fluffed teleport and squirrel-hole fluffed "I have just the thing!", so maybe something like a woodland Fixer type character.

Specific Effects-
"Traveling the World Tree"
By shifting in the realms ever so slightly, the user can travel via the branches of the World Tree instead of the mortal realm's paths, traveling great distances in shorter amounts of time and without traveling the intervening distance between.
Rego Corpus 15+

"Makeup on one side, nuts on the other"
Squirrel holes can hold all kinds of strange things, whether put there by inhabiting squirrels, or stashed by mortals trying to hide something. the user of this spell can reach into a nearby tree (including the World Tree if no mortal trees are near), and pull out an object from Squirrel Space, the demi-realm which connects all squirrel holes.
Creo Animal/Herbam/Terram

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:23 pm

I'm not entirely sure what his primary role should be. The whole "descendant of Ratatoskr" thing suggests social combat, but I actually suck hard at that sort of thing. I'm going to try to swing Yggdrasil-fluffed teleport and squirrel-hole fluffed "I have just the thing!", so maybe something like a woodland Fixer type character.

You could make a plot seed of that: Breaking away from his trickster ancestry to do the stuff he really wants to do.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:25 pm

Oh, yeah, ironically, I was thinking he's a harmonist Maruhs. Which should be perfectly reasonable, since Maruhs is about not conforming...

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:25 pm

HTH, I'll be sorry to see you go, but nonetheless I understand. Not every game is for every person, and once you've played through something a few times it becomes dull.

Nonetheless, thanks for helping in the thread and if you do decide to play, you'd be very welcome.

Also, that's one deeply scary character. We used to have a similar one... let's just say that the phrase "invisible bear with the Parma" became a byword for "there is no plausible way that you can win in this scenario."

momothefiddler · Post by **momothefiddler** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:09 am

Prak_Anima wrote:"Makeup on one side, nuts on the other"

I appreciated this.

So! We're going to be having a fledgling covenant out in the magical wilderness, with equivalent resources to "the game's suggestion for the Weak Covenant", which, since I can't find "Weak Covenant", I presume to be the Low Power Level. If that's false, disregard the rest of this, I guess.

Notes about Low Power Level:

Build Points: 0-300
Max level of Lab Text or Enchanted Device Effect: 25
Minimum Age of Covenant: none

The baseline given is a single stone building with a Level 3 Magic Aura and one Typical income source. With 3-4 magi, the baseline provides 3-4 standard labs, 3-4 grogs, and 6-8 other covenfolk. There are no exotic craftsmen except "possibly a bookbinder and illuminator".

Boons/Hooks:

My understanding is that we're breaking ground here, so first off I'm looking at Hooks that decrease the assumption that we have things set up beforehand. Of course, those aren't necessary, as it's easy to explain that away by saying the buildings are part of the incentive given to get us to move here, but it's a thought. Here are some things that would reflect that sort of thing.
Poverty (Covenants 16-17): The covenant only has a Lesser income source (Minor Hook) or no income at all (Major Hook).
Wooden (Covenants 15): The text mentions castles, but it doesn't have the (Requires Castle) tag, so I'm thinking this is a kosher way to downgrade the starter building from stone to wood (Minor Hook)

In addition, "Magic runs high and monsters abound", so let's look at some more fantastic elements.
Regio jumps out as an interesting fantasy boon, but it hardly grants an "anchor point" or "seed for development", so we'll leave that.
Aura (Minor Boon) makes sense for a particularly magical place - except that it's not necessary, since 3 is already particularly magical.
Hostile Environment (Minor Boon) might fit, depending on just how fantastic this area is. (I don't actually have a clue what we're looking at here, environment-wise).
Yeah I need a better idea of what sort of environment we're looking at before discussing appropriate boons/hooks for that.

Seclusion (Minor Boon) seems almost required.

I'm not sure what else

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:42 pm

Environment, you say? I'll get you a map when I have time to breathe. For now:

This is undulating plains country, forested in places. There are some high places where the wind can tear a man's cloak off and one can see for miles around, and there are some low places where there's trees and water, but the slope btween the two is never more than a horse can take. Streams criss-cross the countryside, usually consisting of a series of large, shallow ponds and small lakes linked together with swift-flowing narrow streams which have carved themselves gentle sloping valleys. Here and there are rocky outcrops; and here and there where there's shelter from the wind, small woods have grown up. Mostly, though, there's the endless golden brown steppe grass.

This is rich and idle land. Below the grass is the chernozem, the black soil: some of the richest agricultural land in the world, and some of the most unused. Those who dwell here are mostly pastorialists, not farmers; and the few farming villages all have their wooden kremlins into which they can lock themselves when their nomadic neighbours come calling.

It's three hundred kilometres - over a week by horse - west to the great city of Kiev, where the Emperor of Rus' rules and Greek and Varangian traders exchange their goods. However, that empire is crumbling and very few people out on the plains care what the laws of Kiev decree.

The people here are mostly Ruthenian, but the old Varangian blood still lingers amongst some, and many horse peoples have criss-crossed the area and left their mark. To the south is the land of the Cumans, a pagan steppe people known for their ferocity in war as well as their enthusiasm for trade and travel. Several days to the north, the forests start to thicken and merge together, and many people live here as hunters and trappers. To the east lies an endless sea of grass, and eventually the great Don and Volga rivers. They say that the steppe runs all the way to China.

The Ruthenians build with wood rather than stone, and they prefer to trade for manufactured goods rather than create them. They export the produce of the steppe and the forests: furs, amber, cattle and slaves.

The climate varies wildly this far from the sea. There's snow on the ground four months out of the year; late spring and early summer is wet, and late summer and early autumn gets hot. Many tribes migrate south in winter to the shores of the Azov Sea where it's warmer.

Supernatural occurrences are common. Magical animals interbreed with normal ones, to the point where most wolf packs or deer flocks will be led by an Animal of Virtue. Faeries of the wind and the snows delight in playing tricks on the inhabitants; darker faeries emerge at night to terrify villagers. Demons hide in the shadows, tempting people to sin. Most villages keep them out by means of church bells and blessings on the fields, which provide a Dominion aura that aids and protects the faithful. Outside of settled areas, the land possesses frequent auras of one sort or another, most less than a kilometre across and most relatively weak; vis can often be found in these places. Here and there there are stronger auras, usually indicating that something dwells there. In some cases they hold regiones, large or small. Wise people avoid these, and the local stories are full of warnings about what happens if you go into that particular forest, or near that particular pond.

Now and then you do see bigger problems: dragons, demons, zmei, faerie queens, Cuman raiding parties or the like. Times like these are when villages are abandoned and people starve, and the reason why the local prince would like some wizards nearby.

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:40 pm

In terms of hooks, boons and build stuff:

The covenant will receive the following:

1x Q10 L4 Ability summa
1x Large communal building and grog quarters
1x Wooden exterior fence
1x Typical income source or 2x Lesser income sources

Plus the following per each magus (selected by that magus's player):

1x Q10 Art tractatus
1x L10 Q10 or L5 Q15 Art summa
4x Form vis, any type
1x Technique vis, any type
1x Craftsman or specialist
2x Soldier
2x Servant
1x Carter
1x Laboratory and living quarters

Naturally these people will be from wherever the magus is from, which could be anywhere in Christendom. English magi might be guarded by longbowmen or billmen and have a weaver for a craftsman, while Italians might have crossbow-armed guards and a big-city craftsman, and Poles might be accompanied by cavalry grogs and a small-village craftsman.

Here are some example craftsmen and specialists. A lot of this will be MTPed or used for plot seeds but is interesting nonetheless. No choices here are wrong choices.

Craftsmen/women:
Blacksmith: Makes tools and weapons
Cooper/Miller/Brewer/Cook: Helps the covenant's food supply, making winter less threatening
Weaver/Leatherworker: Helps reduce the clothing expenses, typically a pricey area
Carpenter: Helps with furniture/consumables expenses
Thatcher/Shingler/Stonemason: Helps with building maintenance
Bookbinder/Illuminator/Percamenius: Makes books and ink

Specialists:
Steward
Ranger
Priest
Stablemaster
Kennelmaster
Herbalist

In terms of Hook and Boons, would the party like me to assign them or would you like to brainstorm them yourselves? I'm happy with either.

Heaven's Thunder Hammer · Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:29 pm

Laertes et al I hope you guys have fun playing but I have just done too many spring setups over the years. Good luck and happy gaming.

momothefiddler · Post by **momothefiddler** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:40 pm

Well I'm sorry it didn't work out but I appreciate the awareness and such! Good luck yourself.

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:08 pm

Happy gaming, HTH. May your studying from vis rolls always explode.