Lo5R will be a LCG now

[Longes]

Blood and Honour by John Wick is not terrible, mostly by the virtue of being a FATE hack. However the setting is "Japan. Read the wiki or something", so I'm not sure it counts.

[ghost whistler]

Ignoring Ghost Whistler, *have* there been any good asian-flavoured RPG settings?

How about you go fuck yourself, you [EDITED].

[shlominus]

ghost whistler, you do realise that a lot of people consider discrimination of castes a form of racism, don't you? google is your friend.

but let's keep the terms seperate, if you wish. then the game has problems with casteism as well. feel better now?

Are you seriously asking me if i think prejudice is acceptable? What kind of twat are you?

ok, ignore it is then.

[ghost whistler]

Weapons of the Gods had a pretty good setting, though the mechanics were a hot mess.

But it's written by westerners and thus racist.

[angelfromanotherpin]

Wow. I don't know what's more impressive, the desperation of that trolling attempt, or the ignorance it displays. For reference, here's the author of the setting of Weapons of the Gods.

So western.

[Almaz]

The reason people don't like this class is implicit in the text: you are handling unclean stuff, blood and flesh and waste. That's all. No racism involved.

How does your rosy theory deal with the fact that decades after their families stopped being forced to handle shit, the descendants of the Eta still suffer prejudice?

I've no idea, I on't live in Japan.

Instead please explain how this has anything to do with racism, specifically as evidece that L5R is racist.

Prejudice against burakumin is a real fucking thing, and it is racially based, being that it is based on heritage and nothing else. Blindly repeating that racism without qualification or explanation why, in your RPG, is racist. If you are incapable of engaging with the most common definition of racism, or acknowledging that you were wrong, then you're worth nothing more than an empty-headed animal food trough wiper. Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.

[nockermensch]

I've no idea, I on't live in Japan.

Instead please explain how [racism against Etas in Japan] has anything to do with racism, specifically as evidece that L5R is racist.

At least silva won't feel lonely in my ignore list anymore.

[Blicero]

Ignoring Ghost Whistler, *have* there been any good asian-flavoured RPG settings?

Yoon-Suin is a recent OSRish release. Its setting is influenced by Tibet, Nepal, Burma, and northern India. It has crab people and slugmen. It's more of a "fantasy setting influenced and inspired by Asia and Asian mythology", as opposed to a "fantasy setting with clear analogs to Asia". Being OSRish, the mechanics are shitty, but being OSRish, the mechanics are minimal. So you could port it to a more sane system without too many issues. I think it is very good.

edit: Regarding the racism angle, Yoon-Suin was written by a white dude, and it draws upon cultural traditions and histories of not-white people. But the feel said white dude tried to impart was "what if the stories medieval Europeans told about the Far East that had reached Europe after being distorted by distance and repeat tellings were actually true?" So there's an intentional aspect of proto-orientalism built into the setting. I do not know if that makes it racist or exploitative or whatever.

[OgreBattle]

Ignoring Ghost Whistler, *have* there been any good asian-flavoured RPG settings?

Mystic China expansion of Ninjas & Superspies:


Done by the late Eric Wujcik. I never got to meet him in person but I've met folks in the game industry in China that did. There's a two page section on 'The way East Asians hate each other and foreigners' that was fun to read and tinged with humor. It could've easily come off as insulting but it read like Wujcik actually knows Asians-from-Asia IRL. He also wrote RIFTS China and created a pretty cool People's Liberation Army faction that use kungfu, cyborgs, and power armor to wage guerrilla war on the demon lords who control China.

Tenra Bansho Zero is also a cool fantasy setting made by Junichi Inoue ( http://www.tenra-rpg.com/ )

You've got your feudal lords, samurai retainers, ninja clans, evangelion power armor, and so on.

[Longes]

I have a really bad opinion of Wujcik after what he did with Amber Diceless.

[OgreBattle]

Checking out Blood & Honor, interestingly enough the way character generating starts is you create a clan, then you are a member of that clan and advance its agenda. Found this page on 'playing as ronin':

So the game really doesn't want you to play as:

*Miyamoto Musashi
*Kurosawa's Seven Samurai
*Kurosawa's Sanjuro
*Kurosawa's Yojimbo
*Lone Wolf & Cub
*The 47 Ronin
*Revolutionary hero against the shogunate Sakamoto Ryoma that is an inspiration to Japanese today

And so on. I could see why they'd want people to focus on the kingdom building* aspect of the game and discourage "murderhobo adventurer" play, but a bunch of the ronin I listed above do interact with the kingdom building portion of the game. It seems easy enough to just use the clan rules and change the labels so you have your underworld syndicates, revolutionary committees and so on for ronin to be a part of.


*The combat is purposefully paired down to emphasize this too. Samurai duels seem to be based on one roll and the winner decides if he kills his foe or not. Katanas are instant death weapons outside of duels, so the game incentivizes you to avoid combat and go for political maneuvering... I think. I haven't actually read the whole rulebook.

**Combat begins when someone yells "STRIKE!", they get to act first. This sounds like something that can be fun and quirky but also go horribly wrong. It seems most of the effort of 'character creation' is the clan though so having an individual samurai die just means you quickly roll up someone else from the same clan.

[Longes]

It's John Wick game written by John Wick for John Wick. As such it suffers from most of the problems of John Wick's games, and is basically John Wick crying "This is how you should have played L5R, you shitstains!"

But it has good moments, and is a vast improvement over Houses of the Blooded.

[maglag]

Checking out Blood & Honor, interestingly enough the way character generating starts is you create a clan, then you are a member of that clan and advance its agenda. Found this page on 'playing as ronin':

So the game really doesn't want you to play as:

*Miyamoto Musashi
*Kurosawa's Seven Samurai
*Kurosawa's Sanjuro
*Kurosawa's Yojimbo
*Lone Wolf & Cub
*The 47 Ronin
*Revolutionary hero against the shogunate Sakamoto Ryoma that is an inspiration to Japanese today

And so on. I could see why they'd want people to focus on the kingdom building* aspect of the game and discourage "murderhobo adventurer" play, but a bunch of the ronin I listed above do interact with the kingdom building portion of the game. It seems easy enough to just use the clan rules and change the labels so you have your underworld syndicates, revolutionary committees and so on for ronin to be a part of.

But none of the characters you pointed out have those things. At best the seven samurai have a shitty village for support, and even then that's the main campaign: turn the shitty village into a fortress, the cowardly peasants into an efficient army.

Lone Wolf and Cub is murderhobo to the extreme. The whole story could be condensed in "betrayed warrior and his son goes murdering people for money to buy explosives magic weapons to take out the organization that betrayed him, murderizing anybody else who gets on his way while living like a hobo". He technically changes society, but only because he murderized a crapload of important people before finally going down. Like a medium-high level D&D character, he can take on armies on his own and needs no private organization support.

So I don't see anything wrong with the fact that a game focused on clan building would want to discourage you from playing semi-solo murderhobos.

[ghost whistler]

Wow. I don't know what's more impressive, the desperation of that trolling attempt, or the ignorance it displays. For reference, here's the author of the setting of Weapons of the Gods.

So western.

No, Tony Wong is the author of the comic upon which the setting is based.

But don't let your ignorance of the book stop you from missing the point.

Oh and well done for showing a picture of a Chinese man with the assumption that all chinese come from China. That he could be Asian American, for instance.

[ghost whistler]

I have a really bad opinion of Wujcik after what he did with Amber Diceless.

So?

[ghost whistler]

Checking out Blood & Honor, interestingly enough the way character generating starts is you create a clan, then you are a member of that clan and advance its agenda. Found this page on 'playing as ronin':

So the game really doesn't want you to play as:

*Miyamoto Musashi
*Kurosawa's Seven Samurai
*Kurosawa's Sanjuro
*Kurosawa's Yojimbo
*Lone Wolf & Cub
*The 47 Ronin
*Revolutionary hero against the shogunate Sakamoto Ryoma that is an inspiration to Japanese today

And so on. I could see why they'd want people to focus on the kingdom building* aspect of the game and discourage "murderhobo adventurer" play, but a bunch of the ronin I listed above do interact with the kingdom building portion of the game. It seems easy enough to just use the clan rules and change the labels so you have your underworld syndicates, revolutionary committees and so on for ronin to be a part of.


*The combat is purposefully paired down to emphasize this too. Samurai duels seem to be based on one roll and the winner decides if he kills his foe or not. Katanas are instant death weapons outside of duels, so the game incentivizes you to avoid combat and go for political maneuvering... I think. I haven't actually read the whole rulebook.

**Combat begins when someone yells "STRIKE!", they get to act first. This sounds like something that can be fun and quirky but also go horribly wrong. It seems most of the effort of 'character creation' is the clan though so having an individual samurai die just means you quickly roll up someone else from the same clan.

Clear evidence of racism: the game doesn't meet my expectations.
Well spotted.

[Longes]

Man, trolls aren't even trying anymore.

That he could be Asian American, for instance.

He could be. But he is not.

[ghost whistler]

Man, trolls aren't even trying anymore.

That he could be Asian American, for instance.

He could be. But he is not.

And that's apparent from the picture...how?

[Starmaker]

But none of the characters you pointed out have those things.
...
So I don't see anything wrong with the fact that a game focused on clan building would want to discourage you from playing semi-solo murderhobos.

Reread the sidebar again. It isn't written to provide rules for playing ronin. It's written to say playing ronin is uncool and anyone who tries should be punished, which is of course bullshit, because (1) ronin are cool, (2) a party of ronin characters, even inspired by semi-solo murderhobos, is easier to justify staying together and adventuring as a group, and (3) nothing prevents ronin characters from creating and running an organization except that sidebar telling they can't BECAUSE I SAID SO STOP HAVING FUN.

[maglag]

Mechas are cool. That does not mean a game about samurai clans should make trying to build your own independent mecha organization as viable as running an organization of tiny men with pointy sticks that has to answer to a (perhaps insane) boss and then the government.

The game is called "Blood and Honor", not "Survival and Profit", neither "Machine guns and robots".

[virgil]

I don't know why I bother, because it's obvious ghost whistler doesn't know to read.

No, Tony Wong is the author of the comic upon which the setting is based.

Show us where he said otherwise. Show us where I said anything was a gish gallop in this thread.

[Leress]

Man, trolls aren't even trying anymore.

That he could be Asian American, for instance.

He could be. But he is not.

And that's apparent from the picture...how?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wong_Yuk-long

[ghost whistler]

Man, trolls aren't even trying anymore.

He could be. But he is not.

And that's apparent from the picture...how?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wong_Yuk-long

And again, how is that apparent FROM THE PICTURE?

[Almaz]

Actually, it does. Even given the ability to travel, people do not often travel away from their linguistic sphere because of the discomfort and unfamiliarity involved with not speaking local languages. Keeping this in mind, one can see if they zoom in that this gentleman is not only of a typical Asian phenotype, and dressed in traditional Chinese clothing, albeit highly glitzed up, but he has hanzi characters on his microphone, arranged in a manner typical for Chinese languages (as opposed to Japanese or Korean). I can't read them myself in the intended manner because I do not speak Cantonese or Mandarin, the most likely languages, but I can identify them within that degree because of my linguistic ability. It then says ACGHK, the acronym for Animation-Comic-Game Hong Kong. So we can determine that this person, dressed in traditional Chinese clothing, with a Chinese phenotype, was without a doubt in the Hong Kong area at that time that picture was taken. This increases our confidence levels to an incredible degree. So even not knowing that it is "Tony Wong" specifically, we can determine probabilistically that the person is Chinese.

Or, you know, we can skip all those steps and say, "it's Tony Wong, this is a well-documented picture of him, oh look, he's a Hong Kong native."

Those are both apparent from the picture.

[ghost whistler]

Or, you know, we can skip all those steps and say, "it's Tony Wong, this is a well-documented picture of him, oh look, he's a Hong Kong native."

Those are both apparent from the picture.

If you don't know who that is, you wouldn't know where he was from. A picture of a chinese person is proof of nothing more.

Your desperate attempts to twist the argument are hilarious. It's racism when a western writer puts out a game based on ancient Japan, but it's not racism when a western writer puts out a game based on ancient China.

Yes, that makes sense because...photo of a chinese person, who could be from anywhere.

Or do you think that only Chinese nationals wear Chinese attire? No Asian Americans, or British Asians, etc, do?

You are utterly ridiculous.