Dominion 3 Strategy & Questions
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Avoraciopoctules
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What? What drama happened there?Avoraciopoctules wrote:According to the Illwinter website, they aren't letting Shrapnel Games sell Dominions 3 anymore. People won't be able to buy it until Illwinter finishes setting things up with Desura.
The new official Dom3 forums will be at Desura as well.
Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
If any drama then it was all behind the scenes.
apparently Shrapnels contract ran out. Illwinter didnt like the "sole distributor" clause. They are trying all of the things that users have been telling them would be so much smarter to do.
The game is also offered to other sites such as Steam but no nibbles yet.
Illwinters other game Conquest of Elysium 3 (dominions lite) is already on Desura, GamersGate, and Steam. So far the benefits arent screaming IMHO
apparently Shrapnels contract ran out. Illwinter didnt like the "sole distributor" clause. They are trying all of the things that users have been telling them would be so much smarter to do.
The game is also offered to other sites such as Steam but no nibbles yet.
Illwinters other game Conquest of Elysium 3 (dominions lite) is already on Desura, GamersGate, and Steam. So far the benefits arent screaming IMHO
Last edited by gp1628 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What kind of damage does Geyser do? Magma Bolts? I'm trying to figure out how to use Bakemono Sorcerers to take down Abysians. So far I'm using skeleton spam and acid bolts, but it would be nice to have a dps option for more than 25% of my mages. EDIT: Oh, and Strength of Giants.
Last edited by Orion on Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ancient History
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Yeah, this has definitely been an uncomfortable matchup. "Killing them from afar" hasn't been working out for me. Even longbows don't faze them. Frankly having dai bakemono cut them up has been the best way to kill them I can find. I'm having my sorcerers support with skeletons/strength buffs/armor destruction. Maybe I should buy some Ubas? Then I could spam sleep on them, and have a cost-efficient cold bolt caster.
Oh, speaking of which: Do Abysians have any special vulnerabilities to cold effects? I don't see any listed, and since Cold Bolt isn't armor-piercing, it looks like it's actually going to suck. Is that true? Or does it at least suppress their heat or something.
Oh, speaking of which: Do Abysians have any special vulnerabilities to cold effects? I don't see any listed, and since Cold Bolt isn't armor-piercing, it looks like it's actually going to suck. Is that true? Or does it at least suppress their heat or something.
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Username17
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Abyssians are reduced in power by cold weather. It makes them fatigue faster, their heat auras shrink, and their high end troops straight up weaken. Actual cold direct damage spells aren't terribly effective except in that they are quite annoyed by actually being frozen (which runs up their already dangerous fatigue even more). Frozen Heart does pretty well, because it bypasses armor and also freezes them.
Acid is the best against Abyssians, because it blows up their armor.
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Acid is the best against Abyssians, because it blows up their armor.
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The spell Rain reduces Heat Auras and makes Fire magic more costly, so that might be an option for major battles.
If you really want to hurt Abysians, your strength here is Earth magic. Destruction and Curse of Stones attack Abysia's asset (high armor) and liabilities (fatigue from high armor) respectively. Earth Meld is also an under-appreciated spell for breaking up formations so that you can focus force.
Rust Mist and Acid Rain will synergize with archers to ruin armor as well, so that should be in your bag of tricks too.
The Magma line of spell is physical damage, so not a lot of help there even though they are very high damage and should work passably well on Abysian armor.
Massed Sleep Cloud, Poison Cloud, and Leeching Darkness work well with skeleton spam.
Don't forget that as a Death/Nature power, Terror and Panic are also in your bag of tricks. They aren't as sexy as killing enemies outright, but forcing expensive routs on the enemy over and over is worth it in the long run.
Shadow Blast can also be quite effective if you can afford the Death gems, but at this point you might want to start looking into making Ghost Generals into thugs with your Death gems. a couple of high armor ethereal undead with Vine shields and the AoE cold swords is going to pay off almost immediately when mixed with regular troops.
Ideally, you want to find a crossbow province if you want the cheap option. Abysia hates crossbows.
If you really want to hurt Abysians, your strength here is Earth magic. Destruction and Curse of Stones attack Abysia's asset (high armor) and liabilities (fatigue from high armor) respectively. Earth Meld is also an under-appreciated spell for breaking up formations so that you can focus force.
Rust Mist and Acid Rain will synergize with archers to ruin armor as well, so that should be in your bag of tricks too.
The Magma line of spell is physical damage, so not a lot of help there even though they are very high damage and should work passably well on Abysian armor.
Massed Sleep Cloud, Poison Cloud, and Leeching Darkness work well with skeleton spam.
Don't forget that as a Death/Nature power, Terror and Panic are also in your bag of tricks. They aren't as sexy as killing enemies outright, but forcing expensive routs on the enemy over and over is worth it in the long run.
Shadow Blast can also be quite effective if you can afford the Death gems, but at this point you might want to start looking into making Ghost Generals into thugs with your Death gems. a couple of high armor ethereal undead with Vine shields and the AoE cold swords is going to pay off almost immediately when mixed with regular troops.
Ideally, you want to find a crossbow province if you want the cheap option. Abysia hates crossbows.
Last edited by K on Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:48 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Username17
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A traditional method of pulling off assassinations is giving them items that summon allies, like a bottle of living water. I think in chill vs. heat both of the auras take effect, but if you're inside someone's dominion it's quite likely one of them is basically nerfed into nothingness.
As for rain, I think there's nothing to counter it once it's actually cast. He'll either need to find a way to kill the mages in assassination or before they can cast, or he'll need to get indies or something that are unaffected by rain.
As for rain, I think there's nothing to counter it once it's actually cast. He'll either need to find a way to kill the mages in assassination or before they can cast, or he'll need to get indies or something that are unaffected by rain.
Last edited by name_here on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.
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Username17
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Blood Hunting warlocks usually go into assassination battles with a pile of blood slaves. Depending on what they are scripted to do, they may open up with either the summoning of a couple of squads of Imps or start in on the mind blasts. Either one is going to blow past a bottle of water in short order.
Mujina just aren't actually very good, and even if you outfit them with expensive Skull Faces, they are still very likely to get their asses handed to them by Warlocks with blood slaves.
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Mujina just aren't actually very good, and even if you outfit them with expensive Skull Faces, they are still very likely to get their asses handed to them by Warlocks with blood slaves.
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Astral and Blood magic are very good in assassination attempts, so the short answer is, "basically, no."Orion wrote:Abysia is using warlocks to blood hunt. Is there anything I could put on a Mujina that would give me a shot?
Your Mujina are basically designed to kill the cheap indie commanders who ferry troops around for people, so you want to put them in a province where someone is moving an army through. Some Mujina will die, but the ones who win will mean that the troops that the indie commander was ferrying will not move with the rest of the army. With any luck, you might be able to keep a large pile of troops from showing up to critical battles.
You can freeze and be on fire. Weird, but true.Orion wrote:What happens when critters with chill fight critters with heat?
If you are really worried about Heat Auras, I've mentioned that Rain is a great way to reduce that, but also consider Wolven Winter to drop the temperature of the province... heat auras in Cold 3 are not impressive.
Do both, and you can even make it snow in the Abysia capital.
Nope. To add insult to injury, sometimes the map is just raining.Orion wrote:My Abysian friend asks: is there any way to block or counter Rain?
I'm not worried about the heat auras, really. I use a lot of undead, and shitty goblins, and other people who don't care about fatigue. Actually, I was looking for ways to make the Abysians fatigue out. Is Numbness better or worse than dessicate, or does it matter? Is it worth researching toward encase in ice? Will winter wolves inconvenience abysians in Heat 1 scales?
Combining Curse of Stones and Quagmire is the premier way of fatiguing out people. By the time that two armies actually meet on the battlefield, the Curse has had enough time to really work on your enemies.
Grip of Winter and Heat from Hell are good for nailing the whole battlefield, and you want to combine them with Relief so that your enemy fatigues and you don't.
The fatigue spells that don't do the whole battlefield are mostly bad, but Sleep Cloud is the best of those. The rest should be avoided, though guys with those staves that can cast Numbness can be an interesting way to kill SCs and thugs. It's the targeting and/or saves that make those spells so awful.
Encase in Ice is not a great spell. It doesn't seem to last long enough and it armors enemies.
Winter Wolves are a bad investment. They aren't powerful enough to be effective uses of gems compared to other summons and need a lot of high-end magic support to armor them up.
This may be the time that you want to start with magic item combos. For example, mixing up Boots of Speed, a reinvig item or two, and just about any casting item can make for some devastating units. I usually have five guys who walk around in an army with Rods of the Phoenix and cast ten Incinerates each turn of battle, but against Abysia it's not a good deal because it's fire (and most of the spell casting items are also fire).
Skull Faces are pretty good. Ten undead for each turn of battle for each Boots of Speed + reinvig guy can be a lot of undead to chew through for your enemies, so you could fatigue out enemies by tossing undead flesh at them while Sleep Clouds blanket your Skullface skeletons and enemies alike. Then you can Curse of Stones and Quagmire for important battles.
Grip of Winter and Heat from Hell are good for nailing the whole battlefield, and you want to combine them with Relief so that your enemy fatigues and you don't.
The fatigue spells that don't do the whole battlefield are mostly bad, but Sleep Cloud is the best of those. The rest should be avoided, though guys with those staves that can cast Numbness can be an interesting way to kill SCs and thugs. It's the targeting and/or saves that make those spells so awful.
Encase in Ice is not a great spell. It doesn't seem to last long enough and it armors enemies.
Winter Wolves are a bad investment. They aren't powerful enough to be effective uses of gems compared to other summons and need a lot of high-end magic support to armor them up.
This may be the time that you want to start with magic item combos. For example, mixing up Boots of Speed, a reinvig item or two, and just about any casting item can make for some devastating units. I usually have five guys who walk around in an army with Rods of the Phoenix and cast ten Incinerates each turn of battle, but against Abysia it's not a good deal because it's fire (and most of the spell casting items are also fire).
Skull Faces are pretty good. Ten undead for each turn of battle for each Boots of Speed + reinvig guy can be a lot of undead to chew through for your enemies, so you could fatigue out enemies by tossing undead flesh at them while Sleep Clouds blanket your Skullface skeletons and enemies alike. Then you can Curse of Stones and Quagmire for important battles.
Last edited by K on Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:29 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Avoraciopoctules
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I'm looking at a mod nation, and trying to figure out good pretender/research strategies for it. Any suggestions?
http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/ind ... c=531&st=0
Aurum's got good standard troop options. You have a better version of LA Man's heavy infantry + crossbow soldier, guys with 2 attacks and enough armor not to miss their shields too badly, and okay cavalry. Haven't tried out the not-Abysians yet.
Mage-wise, your priestesses are nice army support and diversification potential, but it's really all about the cap-only stuff. Are Paragons of Power worth buying? Even with power of the spheres, they don't seem good for much beyond fireballing or self-buffing then taking out small squads of enemies.
The research bonus on your Paragons of Wisdom is nice, but that Gcost kinda hurts on a nonsacred unit. You can semi-fix that with the national ascension rituals, but this nation really wants to keep the cash flowing. BTW, Arcane Knowledge seems to kill the old mage and spawn a new unit, so you want to use it on the worst paragons that can cast it.
The undead armies you get from enchantment look nice, but you've got other stuff as well. The flying suits of royal armor with H3 would be absolutely incredible if you could replace their weapon and shield, but they only have misc slots. Can you still use them effectively as raiders or counter-raiders?
http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/ind ... c=531&st=0
Aurum's got good standard troop options. You have a better version of LA Man's heavy infantry + crossbow soldier, guys with 2 attacks and enough armor not to miss their shields too badly, and okay cavalry. Haven't tried out the not-Abysians yet.
Mage-wise, your priestesses are nice army support and diversification potential, but it's really all about the cap-only stuff. Are Paragons of Power worth buying? Even with power of the spheres, they don't seem good for much beyond fireballing or self-buffing then taking out small squads of enemies.
The research bonus on your Paragons of Wisdom is nice, but that Gcost kinda hurts on a nonsacred unit. You can semi-fix that with the national ascension rituals, but this nation really wants to keep the cash flowing. BTW, Arcane Knowledge seems to kill the old mage and spawn a new unit, so you want to use it on the worst paragons that can cast it.
The undead armies you get from enchantment look nice, but you've got other stuff as well. The flying suits of royal armor with H3 would be absolutely incredible if you could replace their weapon and shield, but they only have misc slots. Can you still use them effectively as raiders or counter-raiders?
Those not-abyssian sacred units have an ethereal secondshape and revert to their normal form after the battle. Even a couple of minor blesses would be interesting.
You could probably attempt some shenanigans with the ascension rituals and twiceborn, elixers of life or an immortal pretender, but that is some ridiculous gem expenditure. File it under stupid pet tricks, along with Wishing for units. I'm not 100% it would work, s0 I would try it out to be sure.
At first glance, I would probably try and take positive financial scales and an awake or dormant research/summoning pretender. I would try and fit as much Death and at least fire 1 into the chassis as possible.
Focus on Enchantment. Summon those cheap, armoured ghouls to aid in expansion (12+ for 2 death gems, ench 1). Enchantment 4 for those sacred fire spirits (1+ for 1 death, banefire shield and ethereal). Obviously, a high death caster can pump these out in reasonable numbers.
Enchantment 4 also gives you flaming arrows. I would probably start diversifying research at that point.
I can't be bothered to run these numbers in a test game, but I would start with an awake Demilich, Dom 7, O3 P1 H2 G1 Mis2 magic 0, death 6, fire 4. I would play around with that and attempt to spam out as many summons as fast as possible before my lack of diversity caught up with me. Shrouds and crystal matrices would be interesting gear for battle mages and I would attempt to shore up research deficiencies with lanterns and skulls, assuming I could afford to make them.
My other go-to option would be an awake PoD. I would be struggling to fit in fire, but I would also benefit from the usual advantages in early expansion.
You could probably attempt some shenanigans with the ascension rituals and twiceborn, elixers of life or an immortal pretender, but that is some ridiculous gem expenditure. File it under stupid pet tricks, along with Wishing for units. I'm not 100% it would work, s0 I would try it out to be sure.
At first glance, I would probably try and take positive financial scales and an awake or dormant research/summoning pretender. I would try and fit as much Death and at least fire 1 into the chassis as possible.
Focus on Enchantment. Summon those cheap, armoured ghouls to aid in expansion (12+ for 2 death gems, ench 1). Enchantment 4 for those sacred fire spirits (1+ for 1 death, banefire shield and ethereal). Obviously, a high death caster can pump these out in reasonable numbers.
Enchantment 4 also gives you flaming arrows. I would probably start diversifying research at that point.
I can't be bothered to run these numbers in a test game, but I would start with an awake Demilich, Dom 7, O3 P1 H2 G1 Mis2 magic 0, death 6, fire 4. I would play around with that and attempt to spam out as many summons as fast as possible before my lack of diversity caught up with me. Shrouds and crystal matrices would be interesting gear for battle mages and I would attempt to shore up research deficiencies with lanterns and skulls, assuming I could afford to make them.
My other go-to option would be an awake PoD. I would be struggling to fit in fire, but I would also benefit from the usual advantages in early expansion.
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Avoraciopoctules
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My first game, I went with an Earth-Death PoD. It turned out pretty well, though a national hero with the same paths showed up who could cast the national undead megasummon.
Aurum's national heroes are pretty awesome. All can summon free units, and even the fighty one would be quite respectable with a little gear.
Apparently, your discount upgraded Mechanical Dragon gets fire magic if you GoR it. Worthwhile?
Aurum's national heroes are pretty awesome. All can summon free units, and even the fighty one would be quite respectable with a little gear.
Apparently, your discount upgraded Mechanical Dragon gets fire magic if you GoR it. Worthwhile?
I guess...Avoraciopoctules wrote: Apparently, your discount upgraded Mechanical Dragon gets fire magic if you GoR it. Worthwhile?
They have awe/fear, along with high protection, high natural MR and immunity to every special damage type.
They are pretty much a dragon pretender chassis, with the downsides that they are mindless and inanimate lifeless.
They are probably going to be able to rout a normal army with their breath weapon and special abilities, but they can do that without GoR. Fire shield and exploding pheonix spell I forget the name of, will help them clear big stacks of units, but the mindless inanimate thing makes me think of a few counters.
Keeping one around as an anti-raider would probably be more effective than using them as a solo raider (depending on the enemy nations). I would be tempted to put a slave matrix on one and use it as a buff platform. An MR amulet would take their MR up to 24, leaving their third misc slot for something else.
Last edited by Winnah on Fri May 10, 2013 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Avoraciopoctules
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http://www.4shared.com/rar/rNYYV5iM/MA_ ... v192_.html?
Gonna play a friendly duel game on a small map. I'm Avernum, Akula's Aurum. Any suggestions for a pretender?
Gonna play a friendly duel game on a small map. I'm Avernum, Akula's Aurum. Any suggestions for a pretender?
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Avoraciopoctules
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After a little discussion, will use this map: http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/ind ... topic=1370
Site frequency is going to be slightly boosted, so rainbow sitesearch strat may be better.
Site frequency is going to be slightly boosted, so rainbow sitesearch strat may be better.
I would focus on scales, personally.
You can use Thaumaturgy to branch out into Death and Blood, picking up all of those site searching spells along the way to your national summons.
Considering the paths on your recruitable mages, you can start manual site searching during your expansion, as you send out mage led squads of Slith Warborn.
To do this, you will need positive order and productivity. If you want to summon those Troglodytes that can forge bloodstones, you'll want growth to support blood hunting. Growth also has a compound effect, which is minor, but will help with your upkeep in the long term. I would even put points into luck as well, or at least avoid misfortune, as the national heroes are pretty good, as are the occasional luck/order events.
The only area I would be prepared to dump for points would be temperature scales, taking heat so as not to inconvenience your cold blooded units. I would also think about taking drain...but only if I absolutely needed the points.
You may want to consider taking a pretender with Death, simply to aid in breaking death properly, earlier in the game. The main reason for this is to make the most of your darkvision, especially on your ranged units.
Air could also help, simply to help forge flying carpets for your inanimate crystals.
Ignore the sacred units. If you manage to pick up an incedental bless, that is all well and good, but they are highly expensive and have the durability of Marignon's flagellants. Taking advantage of their shuriken and AP swords is a challenging proposition. I can see a minor death/blood bless working in their favour, as well as Quickness, but the sacrifices you would have to make would leave you struggling to mass them in any great number.
You can use Thaumaturgy to branch out into Death and Blood, picking up all of those site searching spells along the way to your national summons.
Considering the paths on your recruitable mages, you can start manual site searching during your expansion, as you send out mage led squads of Slith Warborn.
To do this, you will need positive order and productivity. If you want to summon those Troglodytes that can forge bloodstones, you'll want growth to support blood hunting. Growth also has a compound effect, which is minor, but will help with your upkeep in the long term. I would even put points into luck as well, or at least avoid misfortune, as the national heroes are pretty good, as are the occasional luck/order events.
The only area I would be prepared to dump for points would be temperature scales, taking heat so as not to inconvenience your cold blooded units. I would also think about taking drain...but only if I absolutely needed the points.
You may want to consider taking a pretender with Death, simply to aid in breaking death properly, earlier in the game. The main reason for this is to make the most of your darkvision, especially on your ranged units.
Air could also help, simply to help forge flying carpets for your inanimate crystals.
Ignore the sacred units. If you manage to pick up an incedental bless, that is all well and good, but they are highly expensive and have the durability of Marignon's flagellants. Taking advantage of their shuriken and AP swords is a challenging proposition. I can see a minor death/blood bless working in their favour, as well as Quickness, but the sacrifices you would have to make would leave you struggling to mass them in any great number.
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Avoraciopoctules
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Oh snap! Good point about the cold-blooded units. I was thinking of going with cold dominion to weaken enemy firebeards, but that'll impede my sliths just as much.
The usual approach for sacreds is to grab a major astral bless. It's easy to obtain with your national pretender, and with an armored screen your waveblade soldiers will have 2 rounds before they start dying.
The usual approach for sacreds is to grab a major astral bless. It's easy to obtain with your national pretender, and with an armored screen your waveblade soldiers will have 2 rounds before they start dying.