Manxome wrote:Absentminded_Wizard wrote:2. I would say that the sheet-music itself isn't art; the musical piece it describes is.
OK, so the game instructions themselves aren't art, but the game mechanics they describe are? Or is there some other distinction you're trying to make that I'm somehow missing?
If you think game mechanics have the same artistic value as music, I guess you could call them art. The mechanics are a process, and a process may or may not qualify as art.
Back to the GNS debate. I have to go back to the quote name_here posted:
The real variable is the emotional connection that everyone at the table makes when a player-character does something. If that emotional connection is identifiable as a Premise, and if that connection is nurtured and developed through the real-people interactions, then Narrativist play is under way.
So if the emotional connection with the character is what charges everybody's batteries, then it's Narrativist play. But wait, isn't method acting a Simulationist thing?
At the end of the day, GNS theory, which Ron Edwards presumably put hours into writing and editing in multiple articles over years, is as poorly thought out as my off-the-cuff definition of art, especially the distinction (if any) between Narrativism and Simulationism.
For example, Shoggoth argues that a Narrativist who introduces themes totally incompatible with the setting is being an asshole rather than a Narrativist. But if you're letting your choice of theme be limited by the setting, aren't you being a Simulationist? Regardless of how you define theme, it looks like a hardcore Narrativist, as Edwards defines the term, is an asshole.
And as the person who made the Alchemy quote, I have to point out that GNS could have been the Alchemy of RPG theory. I say "could have been" because GNS attaining that status would require a bunch of perceptive RPG theory to have followed in its wake. Instead, it's produced a bunch of people who think it's the beginning and end of RPG theory, and nothing's really pushed the "field" forward.