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Judging__Eagle
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Why do people like Lion King and Nightmare Before Christmas?

Those two movies suck.
B/c one is a good copy of Simba the White Lion, which was apparently a highly regarded Manga and later anime.

The other, b/c it's wierd, and dark, and scary, so it throws off older people, and is thus fairly rebellious. Thus, a lot of people like it b/c of it's pretty counter cultural elements, but the film still talks about fun things from their childhood, like christmas and halloween, that they had fond memories of.
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Post by Lago PARANOIA »

But what about typical storytelling elements, like a plot and characterization and a villain that actually had something to do with the conflict?
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa »

The villain put Jack up to macking on Christmas, in order to replace him as his role in Halloween town.

-Crissa
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Maxus
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Post by Maxus »

Well, this week's Naruto.

Just...this week's Naruto.
Apparently, only bad guys are allowed to die.

I mean, I'll finish the series but that's just setting up that Naruto won't be able to reason with Sasuke. Or even beat him and rely on Naruto's ta'veren-ness to convert him over.
Last edited by Maxus on Fri May 29, 2009 4:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.

--The horror of Mario

Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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Post by TOZ »

Gotta agree with you on this Maxus. "Hey, thanks for returning us to an earlier save state there, what about Haku and Granny Chiyo? No dice. Damn." Completely deflated the emotional punch of the last however many chapters. Kind of similar to the Hinata thing. OH NOES she's dead, wait, just seriously wounded, ah now she's better again. No fucking balls to mess with the status quo.
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Post by Maxus »

TOZ wrote:
Gotta agree with you on this Maxus. "Hey, thanks for returning us to an earlier save state there, what about Haku and Granny Chiyo? No dice. Damn." Completely deflated the emotional punch of the last however many chapters. Kind of similar to the Hinata thing. OH NOES she's dead, wait, just seriously wounded, ah now she's better again. No fucking balls to mess with the status quo.
Well, to be fair, Nagato did imply that he can't bring people back after so long. And, you have to remember, this has been one hell of a long day, but it's still been just a single day. But, still, that mass Revive Dead was cheesy.

Edit: I suppose the whole Chain of Hatred thing is going to be important for the big fight with Sasuke.
Last edited by Maxus on Fri May 29, 2009 3:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.

--The horror of Mario

Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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Post by virgil »

As opposed to whole conversion thing they had with Nagato? "You should be nice because I'm awesome." Nagato didn't even read the book to see if he was lying about the coincidental name.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa »

What about saying what's being spoiled outside the tag?
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Post by TOZ »

Sorry Crissa, hope you didn't read anything you weren't ready to. I didn't think to state anything since it was a linear conversation.
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Post by Lago PARANOIA »

I don't mind you-know-who getting a last minute save because her death was frankly bullshit. Classic case of getting stuffed into the fridge to be the Can O' Spinach character for the Hero. In fact, it's the only thing that kept me reading, because what originally happened was ridiculously sexist and depressing.

Of course, what was the point of undoing what happened to said character if you were going to pull a deus ex machina out of your ass anyway? Hell, what was the point of showing us panel after panel of Sakura and Tsunade busting their butts if you were going to do that?

Also, chapter 449 ends with the most ginormous plot hole I've ever seen. The manga goes out of its way to have Suigetsu berate Karin for leaving his sword, which was messed up by Hachibi's raiton technique, behind on the battlefield. So they show his fully intact sword right next to him not a day later.

Fuck this manga.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Post by TOZ »

I don't know if it's author stupidity or executive meddling, but it saddens me. I'll keep reading for completion sake (if it ever does have an ending) but I'm disappointed in it.
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Post by Lago PARANOIA »

The villain put Jack up to macking on Christmas, in order to replace him as his role in Halloween town.

-Crissa
What? When?

Oogy Boogey didn't have anything to do with this movie. Jack's decision to become a monumental asshole (including the kidnapping of Santa) was done entirely on his own whims.

The only reason he existed in this movie was to distract us from the fact that Jack is actually the villain of this shitty film because everything is his own fault.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin »

Yeah, Nightmare Before Christmas missed an edit somewhere. What needed to happen was for Oogey to hear about Christmas Town from Jack and send the kidnappers himself. Then with Christmas legitimately in peril, Jack could step in to 'save' it and rescue Santa. That would work, in terms of who's supposed to be sympathetic and who isn't.
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Post by Lago PARANOIA »

How about something like this:

Jack beats out Oogey as the scariest person of Halloween Town again, which causes resentment. He also has the hots for Sally. CREEPY HOTS.

Jack visits Christmas Town and initially gets the people hyped up about replacing X-Mas, but has a pep talk with Santa and realizes that he wouldn't want to ruin the spirit of the thing after some heartwarming sequence.

Unfortunately, Oogey Boogey doesn't see things this way and uses the opportunity to gather up the other disaffected Halloween Town people (forcing Jack to back off by kidnapping Sally and some elves whynot) to continue with their perverse version of Christmas--thereby impressing Sally and proving that he's the real scariest person in town!

Santa shows up again and then he and Jack TEAM UP and use the power of Good Halloween and Christmas to beat up Oogey's lackies and set things right.


Now, while that was extremely cliched, it would've been better than the movie we got. And we still could've had the exciting gothic stylizing.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa »

Oogey sets Jack up to find Halloween Town; his popularity after the kidnapping was totally unexpected by Oogey.

I guess you guys forget that until the last scene, the kids are working for Oogey.

...And I knew all this before I saw the deleted scenes and talked to the animator of several of the main characters (who teaches at De Anza here.)

-Crissa
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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin »

Crissa wrote:Oogey sets Jack up to find Halloween Town; his popularity after the kidnapping was totally unexpected by Oogey.
When? When? How? Jack and Zero are wandering in the woods, and then they find the grove. That is all there is to it. Oogey doesn't point Jack at the grove, or direct his attention to any particular tree, or open the door for him, or anything. Jack finds the grove and chooses Christmastown all by himself. He's 100% the active principle.
I guess you guys forget that until the last scene, the kids are working for Oogey.
Oogey doesn't send the kids to kidnap Santa, Jack does. Period. That they deliver Santa to Oogey is kind of out of left field, but it totally doesn't excuse Jack's initiating the kidnapping.
...And I knew all this before I saw the deleted scenes and talked to the animator of several of the main characters (who teaches at De Anza here.
Material that wasn't in a movie is not eligible for consideration when it comes to judging that movie. I don't care if it's fully realized scenes or simple artist intent, if it's not on the screen (or page, or stage) then it's not part of the art.
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Post by Lago PARANOIA »

Oogey sets Jack up to find Halloween Town; his popularity after the kidnapping was totally unexpected by Oogey.
Do you mean Christmas Town? Because... that's totally not what happened. Oogey isn't even introduced in the story until Lock/Shock/Barrel make their sidetrip.

Jack stumbled upon Christmastown when he was taking a long walk past the graveyard after an excellent song that went well into the morning. Then he came across all of the holidays, got blown in, and flipped his fucking lid.
I guess you guys forget that until the last scene, the kids are working for Oogey.
Yes, but who told them to kidnap Sandy Claws in the first place? Jack Assholington. Who's the one who is all 'well, I can't see Sandy Claws anymore, so I guess he doesn't exist' then? Jack again.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Post by Cielingcat »

The Order of the Stick continues to annoy me, though not enough to get me to stop reading. I mean seriously, why couldn't Xykon's phylactery have fallen into the Snarl so that when he dies and his soul goes to it he ceases to exist forever? But no, instead of a super dramatic end to the arc... it falls into the sewer. Fuck. Why?


I'm also annoyed that V's appearance reverted back to normal when the Splice ended. I mean for fuck's sake, Rich actually had his characters say that a change in appearance was a good way to indicate change-why couldn't V stay looking all evil and stuff to indicate that he had actually changed from all this?
Last edited by Cielingcat on Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Lago PARANOIA »

The Order of the Stick continues to annoy me, though not enough to get me to stop reading. I mean seriously, why couldn't Xykon's phylactery have fallen into the Snarl so that when he dies and his soul goes to it he ceases to exist forever? But no, instead of a super dramatic end to the arc... it falls into the sewer. Fuck. Why?
I know. That burst of activity where O'Chul bust out of prison and started wrecking peoples' asses was a reminder to the good old days, which makes me just think he's in a slump -- as opposed to jumping the shark.

But to answer your question, I suspect that Burlew has sort of fallen in love with his villain so doesn't want to screw him over too much or keep him out of the spotlight. I like Xykon, but he has a tendency to overexpose himself. He doesn't play off of the heroes like a good villain should and doesn't seem to have much in the way of tactics other than 'fly and blast'. So I think that this is a mistake.

My fanwank theory? Redcloak should usurp Xykon and take head honcho status. Even though he has the same problem of not really having much to do with the characters other than being an obstacle, he's at least a more interesting character.
I'm also annoyed that V's appearance reverted back to normal when the Splice ended. I mean for fuck's sake, Rich actually had his characters say that a change in appearance was a good way to indicate change-why couldn't V stay looking all evil and stuff to indicate that he had actually changed from all this?
Probably because except for (arguably) the Dragon thing Varsuuvius isn't actually being evil.

But as it stands right now, the good he did in those 20 minutes of the soul splice far outweighs anything he's done in the entire strip. I really would like to think that Burlew is too talented a writer (and I believe that he is) to keep pushing this plot point despite the fact that it's clearly not working.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Post by Koumei »

Incidentally, the shadow under the umbrella: have we found out what it is?
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Post by erik »

Koumei wrote:Incidentally, the shadow under the umbrella: have we found out what it is?
noooo, but....

it has eyes like the snarl, crazy power like the snarl, and cannot perceive the gateways like the snarl. sounds like an aspect or avatar of the snarl.
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Post by Cielingcat »

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Probably because except for (arguably) the Dragon thing Varsuuvius isn't actually being evil.
I agree with that, but I still feel like it should have stayed as a reminder that Varsuuvius can never go back to how he was. Mostly to do with what happened with his family, and how he can probably never go back to them.
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Post by Heath Robinson »

Cielingcat wrote:
Lago PARANOIA wrote:Probably because except for (arguably) the Dragon thing Varsuuvius isn't actually being evil.
I agree with that, but I still feel like it should have stayed as a reminder that Varsuuvius can never go back to how he was. Mostly to do with what happened with his family, and how he can probably never go back to them.
Reread those scenes. It's a domestic argument.
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Post by Cielingcat »

Seemed like more than a domestic argument to me. But I may have been looking for a life changing event where there was none.
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Post by Lago PARANOIA »

I hate that fucking scene. It's completely contingent on Varsuuvius suddenly being unable to string together a coherent explanation, her 'mate' (ugh, I really hate that running gag) not even trying to understand what's going on, then him having to leave without getting a chance to explain. I mean, I know he was on the clock but for fuck's sake. That kind of plot contrivance is beneath the guy who writes Naruto, let alone Burlew.



Speaking of which, is it just me or did Shortpacked suddenly change into Roomies 2: Electric Boogaloo? I mean, I really do appreciate the author trying to add some consequence and change to the strip, I really do, but this territory seems strangely familiar.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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