I will MC After Sundown

Korgan0 · Post by **Korgan0** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:51 am

On the other hand, it's probably pretty trivial, given that you have decent status in the Covenant, to have someone translate it for you and send it to you as a handy-dandy searchable pdf or epub that you can view on an iPhone, which might make it more useful to speak Mandarin or something just in case you need to negotiate with a gang of Chinese werewolves.

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:10 am

If you want the contents of a book, say, because you need to know the specifics of the ritual the baddies are doing to devise a proper counter, then sure, that'll work. If you want to cast a ritual, on the other hand, you will need fluency; trying to cast a ritual in an unfamiliar language based only off a translation is totally inadequate. Also, magical books don't actually work like that; if they were that easy to copy, they'd be copied and semi-mass-produced, and everyone would start with full access to all the sorceries basically for free. Since that's not the case, and magic books instead are rare artifacts that get hoarded away in vaults, you clearly can't digitize a book and keep the magic. Maybe you can copy it... but magically intact copies probably have to be made by hand, by someone who's pretty good at the sorcerous discipline in question; perhaps an elder-only thing, which would neatly explain the scarcity (elders generally have better things to do then copy out books by hand).

Korgan0 · Post by **Korgan0** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:17 am

That's actually a good point, I didn't think of that.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:31 am

Well, I'm tempted to argue that it's an open question how rare the typical grimoire really is--an In Media Res character actually can start with full sorcerous path access if they really want to, after all, so I'm thinking more like '67 Charger in good condition rare rather than seriously, holy shit rare-- but my interpretation of the situation still boils down to a pretty similar endgame to Endovior's insofar that I don't think trading out books for an English copy is an utterly trivial matter even if they could be theoretically mass produced. Just up and publishing legit supernatural secrets is the sort of thing that probably gets shut down and suppressed pretty quickly, after all, since I have a hard time believing that the supernatural community at large is very excited about freedom of information as an ideal or putting up with more witch-spawn cultists or zombie outbreaks when they could just charge each other through the nose for magical knowledge instead. You can hardly count on Joe Extra printing the things out for profit, either, since outside of the context of performing evil magic such books are likely a dull, mystifying read.

And as far as straight getting a translation is concerned? Getting a 50,000+ word grimoire is likely going to set you back a few grand even if you just paid off a cut rate mortal translator, which is a pretty stupid idea considering that it's a book of evil magic--it will be complex contextually and you want it done right lest you end up pulling some Army of Darkness Klaatu barada nikto shit. You don't want that. You're seriously going to want someone who can grok what the insane rambling idioms of an Elder sorcerer means in English and express that eloquently enough to inspire the occasional flash of ecstatic insight needed to perform magic, so right there you're talking about a genuinely time consuming favor/service from another luminary and no, they probably aren't going to work for 10¢ a word, but thanks for asking.

So, yeah, knowing the right language? It's convenient.

Korgan0 · Post by **Korgan0** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:59 am

What I meant that was since there are people in the Covenant, especially in CdM, who know this kind of shit back-to-front, it shouldn't be difficult to get this kind of thing translated if need be: of course Joe Schmo the translator won't be able do it, but a three hundred-year old vampire should be able to do it if you give him a couple of kittens or something.

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:27 am

Again, a couple kittens really isn't going to cut it. You're seriously talking about months of difficult and demanding work. Furthermore, the consequences of the work not being done exactly right is that the resulting product is useless. In fact, the resulting work being useless is the best-case scenario; more likely, the work appears to be good, but when you try to use it in an actual spell, you don't actually wind up sealing the demon gate; you instead crack it open wider and summon a bunch of angry fire demons. This is not a service you can get for a song, unless it's like, a magical song that cures cancer or something.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:57 am

There's also the fact that there's no reason to assume any given Supernatural is going to be particularly trustworthy, and won't run off with the book as soon as you turn your back, trying to kill you if necessary.

Korgan0 · Post by **Korgan0** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:25 pm

Yeah, okay, good point.

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:13 pm

So, uhh... is this still happening?

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:22 pm

Endovior wrote:So, uhh... is this still happening?

I was mostly waiting on you to mostly finish your new character. I was very on the fence about your destiny, so I wanted to wait until I saw the whole character to say yes/no.

But I think the answer is just no. I don't think it's valid to allow you to Seeking Arrow any specific person you want at any time. Sure it's not that big a deal against strong supernaturals, but it could easily reach the point where you could kill anyone mortal no problem, and any supernatural that happens to be particularly weak, and rely on not letting people shoot at them.

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:39 pm

kk; hadn't heard anything back from you, so was wondering where this was at.

If Seeking Arrow is too big a deal, no problem; I'll find some different powerset.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:25 am

I'm not really surprised to hear that. That idol was certainly restrictive enough to be called a good faith effort but if there's a sensible way to balance out unrestricted targeting schemes I am nowhere near clever enough to think of it.

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:37 am

Hmm. Well, I like the ability, so the first thing that comes to mind is to reduce the targeting capacity a notch, so that you need a part of the target to hit them. It can be an object they used, such that it'd have skin flakes or something on it, but hair or nail clippings are preferred; or better yet, a blood sample.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:12 am

Probably best to go with blood, bone, teeth or flesh to be on the safe side; Crimson Death is the most comparable mechanic, after all, and while Crimson Death has the advantage of just straight up murdering people super hard it's also an Elder Power and pretty much has to be that hardcore to keep from being sniggered at by the cool kids.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:22 am

What about some kind of sliding scale of to hit bonus to sample type. So if you have blood, you get a huge bonus that is 95% likely to hit, but if you only have nail clippings, you're only 5% more likely to hit than normal. Or whatever.

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:42 am

I was thinking along the lines of 'used item' being at a malus, with hair/nails being neutral, and blood giving a bonus. The ritual itself is Hard/Extreme (Crazy Extreme if you don't know Nahuatl), net hits add to the dicepool, failure does nothing. A nonlethal sacrifice applies a malus, a single death is neutral, and additional sacrifices provide bonuses on a steeply diminishing returns curve; with a theoretical maximum based on how many throats you can possibly manage to slit in 10 minutes or so. Accordingly, it's mostly going to be a fairly low-dicepool attack... and not one you can repeat more then once per day. Even so, good point on Crimson Death... at 'blood only', it remains more restrictive, so who cares if it's more deadly: that's an excellent delineation of effect potency.

As an alternative, since I just came up with it... how about a 10-gallon jug (like one of those big water jugs used for water coolers), that's enchanted to keep any blood placed in it magically fresh, warm, and delicious (ie: PP-bearing). At 5.6 liters of blood to the man, that's just over 7 people worth of blood, or 70 PP. Gift of Health'd blood doesn't seem to have an expiry date, so you could potentially do this with a regular old 10-gallon jug, if it's vampire blood you're storing; this one is special, since it can take normal blood and keep it fresh, and since a command word causes it to suck up all the fresh blood on the scene (read: any blood that wasn't fed on), thus both cleaning up evidence, and saving a tasty snack. This is mostly a convenience item, since any Vampire can basically do this anyway, if he's got the discipline to carefully drain himself before feeding; accordingly, it's probably Destiny 1-ish.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:32 pm

As long as you can't set up a blood bong or otherwise shotgun power points in under 12 seconds like some kind of vampiric frat boy that jug sounds a helluva lot more negotiable than Crimson Death Lite.

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:35 pm

The rules don't give you any way to speed up PP acquisition, so this doesn't work that way either. Drinking blood takes 12 seconds per PP, same as always. Again, it's a convenience issue... since a sackful of babies is especially inconvenient, and a bunch of docile mindslaves following you around is only slightly less so; lots of bottles of your own saved blood is considerably more doable, but requires a bunch of PP micromanagement.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:38 pm

I don't know... just get a van, soundproof it, and fill it with babies. Maybe pick up Progress of Glass, carry a baby in a mirror pocket for when you get the munchies.

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:50 pm

I didn't say it wasn't doable; just inconvenient. Babies are high-maintenance, after all, and if they up and die on you, there goes the PP. Unfortunately, most of the more conveniently portable ways of transporting babies tend to be bad for them, especially if you want to keep them there mostly unattended. You can find ways around that, but it generally winds up being something you need to spend either powers or Resources on. So I'm spending some of my Resources on easier PP acquisition, to have an artifact that makes life easier.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:05 am

Hm... are items in stasis in a mirror pocket?

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:47 am

I don't believe so; there's no mention of it, at least. That said, the rules say that things can be put inside, so it's arguable whether beings can be put into one... I'd say probably not, since if so, then you could potentially imprison your enemies in the things, perhaps even in combat, which seems way too good to not have been mentioned, were that the intent. Either way, I'd be inclined to suspect that things stored there are effectively locked up in some fairly inaccessible part of Limbo, and thus probably safe, but not totally safe, and certainly not protected from the ravages of time.

(That said, Troglodytes totally have an easier time of things; they can just carry around a sack of dead babies and not even worry about it. Of course, they can't do the 'bottle their own blood' thing quite as easily as Vampires can, so there is a tradeoff.)

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:58 am

It really does tend to even out in the wash. After all, even with a "convenient" sack of dead babies troglodytes don't have that much to spend their points on unless they load up on big spenders with their discretionary powers. Meanwhile bagheera and werewolves can cash out 11 power points to totally hulk out on people if they really feel like it but their recharge mechanic doesn't leave much room for gamesmanship more complicated than "We strike just before midnight!".

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:53 pm

Since you were asking about it earlier, and I had some free time today; my updated character... pretty much finished, except for resources, which are pending what I can actually get with them.

Name: Salvador Luis Ramirez
Supernatural Type: Daeva
Cult: Black Hand
Syndicate: Covenant

-Power-
Potency: 1
Edge: 4/4
Power Points: 13/13
Power Schedule: Feeding

-Health & Resistances-
[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
Physical: 13(17)
Mental: 6
Social: 8
Death Threshold: 4
Initiative: 6(10)
Frenzy: Hunger
Agg. Material: Wood

-Personality-
Master Passion: Hunger (Willpower + Medicine Controls)
Driving Passion: Pending Game Start
Taboos: Politeness Ethics, Solidarity Ethics
Honor: Courage, Loyalty, Fighting Ability, Professionalism, Sexy Ladies
Despise: Betrayal, Rudeness, Incompetence, Laziness, Troublemakers

-Attributes-
-Physical- {Pri}
Strength: 7(9)
Agility: 4
-Mental- {Ter}
Intuition: 2
Logic: 2
-Social- {Sec}
Willpower: 4
Charisma: 2

-Skills-
-Physical-
Athletics 6 [Flight]
Combat 6 [Unarmed]
Perception 6 [Visual]
Survival 6(7)
Stealth 3
-Social-
Bureaucracy 3
Expression 6
Intimidation 6 [Physical Threats]
Persuasion 3
Tactics 3
-Technical-
Artisan 3 [Metalwork]
Medicine 6(7) [First Aid]
Sabotage 6(8) [Structural]

-Backgrounds-
-Social-
Bar Scene 4
Lucha Libre 6
Street Gangs 3
-Academic-
Aztec Mythology 6
Mesoamerican History 3
-Occult-
Covenant Law 4
Cursed Items 6
Sacrifice Rituals 3

-Resources-
???

-Advantages/Disadvantages-
+Attractive
+Direction Sense
-Blatantly Magical
-Distinctive Appearance
-Haunted

-Powers-
Vigor (Basic Clout) [Str]
Devastation (Advanced Clout) [Str, Combt]
Nimble Feet (Basic Celerity) [-]
Quickness (Basic Celerity) [-]
Alacrity (Advanced Celerity) [-]
Patience of the Mountains (Basic Fortitude) [-]
Revive the Flesh (Basic Fortitude) [-]
Restoration (Advanced Fortitude) [-]
Attract (Basic Magnetism) [Wil+Exprs/Cha+Tactc]
Flight (Clout / Magnetism Devotion) [-/Agl+Athlt]
Gift of Health (Basic Path of Blood) [-]
Fire Walking (Basic Walk of Flame) [-]

-Power-Derived Bonuses-
+4 Initiative - Advanced Celerity
+2 Strength - Advanced Clout
+4 Physical Resistance - Advanced Fortitude
+1 to socialization - Basic Magnetism
+1 Medicine, Survival - Basic Path of Blood
+2 Sabotage - Basic Walk of Flame

-Buffs-
1 Edge Point
2 Attribute Points
4 Resource Points

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:29 am

@Kaelik

I don't think any of these changes would be a problem, but I thought I'd run them by you quick in the interest of avoiding a pointed conversation along the lines of "Quit changing your sheet, you cheating fuck." I have Finance 2 so here is some mundane shit I definitely want to own and will add to my sheet if there's no objections:

Leather Jacket (aka, the crappiest armor in the game)
A pickup truck (An 8 year old F-150, nothing fancy).
A .45/.410 revolver. Light pistol stats and can dispel out to Short when using .410 rock salt/sand/seed loads.
Plain ol' steel Swiss army knife.
A dinky keychain LED flashlight small and light enough to unclip and drag with me in rat or bird form if I absolutely have to.

And most importantly, I want to shift some of my social skills around to sink points into Tactics; I forgot that's what's used to determine how many "people" you can effectively lead in a teamwork test and while I won't be rocking a score as impressive as Catharz's I do want to be able to lead my summoned animals on tracking expeditions and stuff by myself if need be.