POKEYMANS thread

Chamomile · Post by **Chamomile** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:08 pm

The Transformers line died. The only reason they brought it back was to give it to Michael Bay, who remains the only consistent source of Transformers media for the past five years. You could not ask for a more decisive Gundam victory.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:19 pm

On the one hand, the michael bay transformers are financially very lucrative. On the other, they are terrible and everyone should feel bad that they exist.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:19 pm

As long as we're sharing Pokemon Head Canons, here's mine:

posted on TV Tropes originally wrote:In ancient times, pokemon were considered an actual sapient race, with many tribes which lived in peaceful-ish coexistence with humans. Humans were a technological species, while pokemon focused on internal, personal growth, their powers. As Pokemon grew more powerful, they out stripped human technology, and renegade pokemon were leaving their society to live a more feral life, eventually completely forgetting their society, and the informal truce with humans, making life very dangerous for humans. Due to this growing danger, Arceus formed a pact with humanity, pledging that his race would serve worthy humans as guardians, three tribes of each region, the starters, agreed to let their young be given to young humans so that the children can prove their worth, without having to personally fight wild pokemon and risk their lives. Pokemon, though they've mostly forgotten this past, maintain a proud warrior tradition, meaning that defeat actually does mean friendship. When a trainer defeats a wild pokemon with his own trained pokemon bodyguards, the defeated pokemon is convinced of the trainer's worth, as displayed through the power of said bodyguards. The other consequence of this proud warrior tradition is that pokemon love to fight each other. It's like getting a bunch of martial artists or other combat sportsmen in the same room, it's only a matter of time before they decide to spar. This is the actual reason for the copious trainer battles. It's not the trainer who wants to battle you, your pokemon and their pokemon want to battle each other, and will not allow their trainers to interrupt until one side has been proven superior, they refuse to return to their pokeballs unless a partner is taking their place. This actually means that N's entire goal in Black/White is refuted, because he is going against the desires of pokemon who love to spar. Eventually both sides completely forgot this, but the tradition remained, and people began to develop technologies that make trainer more convenient, such as pokeballs and potions.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:49 pm

Chamomile wrote:The Transformers line died. The only reason they brought it back was to give it to Michael Bay, who remains the only consistent source of Transformers media for the past five years. You could not ask for a more decisive Gundam victory.

Runied FOREVER

You've enraged my inner nerd.

Just because Michael "I don't have two testicles or brain cells to rub together" Bay made the live-action TF movies, does not mean that the brand is dead. It's still going on strong. May I point you to...

Transformers Prime;

The IDW comics, of which I am a huge fan;

FALL OF FUCKING CYBERTRON

and the hundreds of new toys being released each year?

What has Gundam done in recent years? The last time I saw them was in the late nineties early 2000's. And they were dying by that point.

WIN: TRANFORMERS!

EDIT: Oh, and Prak, that's more or less how I imagined Pokemon to feel about batteling. Not all the tribal stuff, which is awesome by the way, but more the "proud warrior race" bit and martial artist comparisons.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:30 pm

I know you view the world through energon-tinted glasses, but that doesn't change the fact that Gundam animation had one meaningful animation gap from 1981-1985--during which their financial fortunes were turned by the introduction of gundam toys--and has cheerfully chugged along without a hitch ever since. It's hardly a dead brand. Now, once you factor in the Michael Bay resurgence and the product push that came with it I don't doubt that Transformers trounces Gundam financially by a good margin--Dark of the Moon, retarded as it may be, grossed a billion dollars if wikipedia is to be believed and the "zomg, real carz" shtick means that auto makers and pepsi-cola were quite happy to partner up with hollywood in the neverending quest to beat audiences over their head with their giant marketing phalluses. So I guess if you really want to rest your laurels on the fickle bitch that is the market place, be my guest. In any case I still feel the franchises are different enough that just tossing out a "wannabe transformers" line comes across as pretty misguided.

Then again, I'm biased: I never saw how GEN1 cartoons could possibly be interesting enough to inspire looking into the Transformers stuff that is supposedly good given that my memories of the series boil down to "Bumblebee/Starscream fuck up again."

Chamomile · Post by **Chamomile** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:03 pm

The comics have repeatedly been cancelled and occasionally bankrupted their publishers, Transformers Prime was created out of the success of Michael Bay and is regardless no more significant than Gundam AGE, FALL OF FUCKING CYBERTRON is just a video game; no one other than you really cared that much, and again Gundam has three different Dynasty Warriors: Gundam games, Mobil Suit Gundam: Crossfire, Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn, and a few other minor titles released besides in the same 2007-2012 timeframe where Transformers has basically failed to produce anything that wasn't founded on Michael Bay's baffling success.

I don't know why on Earth you brought up financial success in the first place. Not only is it a terrible measure of quality, it's also Sophie's Choice for Transformers fans. You can either admit that the financial success of Gundam dwarfs that of the pitiful remnant of the Transformers series that fans actually like or you can start sucking Michael Bay's cock.

I'm also not sure why you compared the two in the first place. Gundam is a series about pilots who drive giant robots that almost never transform into things, the thematic core of which is the horror, futility, and/or inevitability of war with sympathetic antagonists and protagonists who often find themselves on the wrong side of a war and occasionally find themselves fighting a war which doesn't really have a right side, spread out across multiple universes which have few, if any, characters in common with each other (and when they do have characters in common, the names are changed). Transformers is about giant robots that turn into cars or animals or whatever and play out an archetypal battle of good vs. evil, which takes place in a single universe using the same central cast (though it has been repeatedly rebooted). They have seriously almost nothing in common.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:40 pm

It really is like comparing apples to oranges on many levels. Pre-Michael Bay Transformers is a marginal international cross-media brand that relies on fickle Americans occasionally giving a shit about the franchise to turn a real profit. Gundam, meanwhile, is like a great singles hitter--some Johnny-come-lately franchises may be claiming the top spots on the power ranking any given year but it's not unusual for the Gundam franchise to quietly have a couple series at 3&4 in the top 5 Japanese sales charts with a strong presence in other East Asian markets to boot. Domestically Gundam has been beating out anything not named Naruto, One Piece or Evangelion pretty handily for a couple decades now. Thinking that it is dying somehow is thus almost hilariously Americentric, with Gundam Wing actually being one of the least popular entries in the franchise until Cartoon Network viewers took a shine to it.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:20 pm

First, IDW has been going on for over 125 issues. That's more than Marvel's and Dreamwave's number of issues combined.

Second, War for Cybertron is actually pretty big in the gaming community outside of just TF fans, thank you very much.

And finally, yes Gundam is far more famous... in Japan. I, living in the US, only have the frame of reference to what is popular over here. And, in the US, Transformers is far more popular. So, yes, from my American frame of reference and point of view, Transformers is more popular. If I were Japanese, I'd probably concede the opposite. So, I'll end by saying this: I should've said, in the US TF's do much better than Gundams, which has become mostly "cult" over here as far as I can tell. However, outside the US, yes, Gundam may kick Transformers ass in terms of popularity.

Either way, both were designed to sell products. For Transformers, it was toys. For Gundams, it was impossible to paint mecha models.

The whole reason I brought up the comparison in the first place was to be funny. I did a bang up job of it, obviously.

Now, I'm truly not very sorry for bringing this thread off-topic, but I will bring it back by saying that the creepy dude who runs the Movie studio place not only sounds and looks like Alfred Hitchcock, he also sounds like Toby Jones.

Also, is there a limit to how many shops and such can be set up in Join Avenue?

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:09 pm

Shrapnel wrote:Now, I'm truly not very sorry for bringing this thread off-topic, but I will bring it back by saying that the creepy dude who runs the Movie studio place not only sounds and looks like Alfred Hitchcock, he also sounds like Toby Jones.

So... Toby Jones when he played Alfred Hitchcock?

Also, is there a limit to how many shops and such can be set up in Join Avenue?

No idea.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:31 am

Hey guys, want to take the Transformers <> Gundam dick waving somewhere else?

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:17 am

You can only have up to 8 shops in Join Avenue at any given time. Any future invites have to replace existing shops, but you can replace them as much as you want.

Once you're in the post-game and hit Rank 15+, this means you can have one of each shop (Market, Lottery, Antiques, Dojo, Cafe, Florist, Salon, Nursery). That said, you might decide you don't give a shit about X and instead have multiple Dojos or whatever. For people invited from other games, the things they have for offer vary based on which of the four games they are in. For NPCs, I think it's a random selection (as in, it randomly selects a game they're from).

The following things vary based on version:
[*]Nursery: nothing
[*]Lottery: nothing
[*]Dojo: types of training available (stat priorities)
[*]Market: items sold (when you hit rank 4 Market, this starts being relevant, as you can buy vitamins in bulk)
[*]Cafe: meals (stat priorities)
[*]Antiques: the types of Fossil/Evolution Item that never fucking show up
[*]Florist: berry types - notably at higher ranks the "Sharply Boost X at low HP" and "Weaken a Supereffective X" berries
[*]Salon: I think the types of styling (and thus stat reduction) vary

I would recommend having one of each, but in late game you may wish to focus on having multiple Florists/Antique Dealers for specific berries/evolution items, or just focusing on Cafes and Dojos for easy EV Training and Level Gain - I can currently buy 11 levels per day.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:34 pm

Ah, I see, thanks.

Darth Rabbitt wrote:
Shrapnel wrote:Now, I'm truly not very sorry for bringing this thread off-topic, but I will bring it back by saying that the creepy dude who runs the Movie studio place not only sounds and looks like Alfred Hitchcock, he also sounds like Toby Jones.
So... Toby Jones when he played Alfred Hitchcock?

Yes.

Prak wrote:Hey guys, want to take the Transformers <> Gundam dick waving somewhere else?

I am actually sorry. I won't bring it up again.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:49 pm

You can always make a thread for it, man, like I did when we were cluttering the general video game thread.

Chamomile · Post by **Chamomile** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:12 pm

There.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:27 pm

I have a Pokemon related question: Why do all the Gym Leaders in Unova have secondary jobs/occupations/whatever? I mean, I have my own theories, but still... makes ya think, don't it?

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:58 pm

Here are my top two answers:

1. They're not that great at their jobs/not enough people want to be the very best like no-one ever was (in Unova). So they need a second job to pay the billsoccupy their time. People seem to only work as a hobby in Pokemon.

2. It's part of an ongoing effort to make the gym leaders seem more like real people, kind of like how HGSS (*sniff* we shall miss them) did similar things (I can't remember if this was the case in GSC), and how Sabrina, when she got bored of being a teenage witcha gym leader, went and became a movie star.

I'll let you pick whether "Unova isn't interesting enough for people to follow the path of Ash" or "Gamefreak are trying to add depth to the world" is more likely.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:58 am

I personally subscribe to the theory that Unova is a corporatist shithole, and the people who are supposed to be in charge of their cities (IIRC Gym Leaders are de facto leaders of their cities; if not I imagine them to be) and they are too busy trying to make money to do anything else.

They took the "money" to be the important part of "beat people up and take their money."

Hence why a blatantly criminal organization can openly make speeches about their plans.

They're paying off the local authorities to do so, and those authorities only get involved when their money and/or power is on the line.

Hence why they have you do everything for them.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:33 am

Well it is America.

I love how all the Kanto/Sinnoh/Johto/That Other One police are thin fellows who carry torches at night and tell you to be careful as there may be unsavoury types, and all the Unova ones are overweight and whirl their nightsticks around.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:09 am

That totally reminds me! I will now give the same treatment that I gave to Johto Femiscrya to Unova. I said I would do this if you were naughty, and it appears that you all have been.

(Spoilered not just for length, but because the massive amount of absurd is dangerous if taken in large amounts)

Unova is the Pokemon Planet's Moon.*

(I will take an early aside here to say: The Pokemon Planet - which is it's officialand cumbersome name - is actually Hyrule, which is actually a reformatted Nirn. This bit will not be covered; this is not due to it being ultimately off-topic, but more because I made that backstory so confusing that even I don't get it anymore.)

Unova travels on a unique axis, and rotates at a higher speed than the plantet it orbits: One Unovan year is equal to three Earth/Pokemon Planet year, it spins so fast. In order to prevent all the people from going spinning off into space, Unovans created some novel doodad called "gravity".

The original inhabitants of Unova were the Batsuregans**, a peaceful nomadic druidic people who were at one with nature. Basically, imagine the Pokemon Ranger games (where they didn't catch Pokemon and force them to battle, instead they befriended them and then called upon them for one-time favors). They were a complete contrast to their main planet counterparts, the bloodthirsty Femiscryans.

For eons, the Batsuregans lived in peace and harmony. Everything changed when the fire nation attacked when the defeated remnants of Vampire Lord Lance's regime, who were fleeing the wrath of Femiscrya, arrived on Unova, seeking a safe haven. The Batsuregans were surprised by these new arrivals - they had never had contact with the main planet before - but were willing to welcome these strangers to their lands. However, since they were a part of Lance's army, it went something like this*** (just replace the TF's with the Veteran trainer class and the pink dudes with pink Injuns).

Thus, the Batsuregan's were subjugated and enslaved, and Lance's former army took control. Their leader, Alder, was a scary-ass muthafucka. He raped and devoured small children to insure his thetan count low, and to also insure the furthered protection of the secret of π, which had been deemed by him and a select few mathematicians to be a holy concept.

To this end, they also installed an ultra-capitalistic society, one where having large enough amounts of money was akin to godhood. This is the reason for the fact that money is superballs easy to make in Gen V, and why jobs and occupations are elaborated so in the new games. (Okay, so that part isn't necessarily capitalist, but c'mon, I don't have too much to work with here.)

Now, you may be asking yourself, where's the absurd parts? Well, they're... right... HERE:

In order to defeat Lances Remnents, or the Society for the Preservation and Enhancement of the Recognition of Millard Fillmore, Last of the Whigs (spell out the abbreviation, I dare ya), the Batsuregans began a drastic plan to liberate their people, as the Femiscryans before them had.

Unlike the Femiscryans, who solved all of their problems through bloodshed or sex, the Unovans tried to settle things in a far less violent way: By recreating the plot of Chrono Cross, but with Pokemon substituted for the Toriyama designs and with more Flash Gordon noises.

However, this proved to be too difficult, so they settled on sending a chosen warrior to go back in time and prevent the events of BW from happening.

To this end, they chose a young child, Vera†, to go out into the world, become stronger, and defeat Alder and Team Plasma and restore the time stream.

And she did. Handily.

Thus, the events of BW were averted, and people were happy. yay.

During the course of her travels, Vera met and fell in love with the young lass, Iris, a Dragon Master. After Vera's epic struggle against Alder, she and Iris settled down together, eventually having a daughter through means that puzzle this shit out of science and nature, named Vivian‡.

Iris went on to become champion of Unova in Vera's stead, who stayed behind with their newborn daughter and neglected to tell the poor child that her other mother was the leader of the Unovan Pokemon League.

And that's the story of Unova... so far. Someday, I'll do individual bios and Tech Specs of the various characters.

* I was sorely tempted to leave this entry as just this, but I decided, as funny as that would be, that I had too much to say about this particular satellite.

** Yes, Batsureg is another DragonQuest reference. This time, to a village in DQIX.

*** Sorry 'bout yet another TF reference, but I honestly could not think of a better way to get the point across.

† As you may have guessed, Vera was my character from White. Again, that was the game I was playing when I made most of this shit up.

‡ And yes, Vivian is my character in White2. What can I say, I like continutiy.

Whew. I think it's pretty good, considering the fact that most of it I just made up on the spot.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:11 am

Koumei wrote:I love how all the Kanto/Sinnoh/Johto/That Other One police are thin fellows who carry torches at night and tell you to be careful as there may be unsavoury types, and all the Unova ones are overweight and whirl their nightsticks around.

By That Other One, do you mean Hoenn, or Orre?

I don't believe their wuz any fuzz in Hoenn, and in Orre, they are complete doofs.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:32 am

Shrapnel wrote:By recreating the plot of Chrono Cross, but with Pokemon substituted for the Toriyama designs and with more Flash Gordon noises.

Chrono Trigger is the one with merit and Toriyama designs.

Chrono Cross is an attempt to shit all over Chrono Trigger.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:33 am

Darth Rabbitt wrote:
Shrapnel wrote:By recreating the plot of Chrono Cross, but with Pokemon substituted for the Toriyama designs and with more Flash Gordon noises.
Chrono Trigger is the one with merit and Toriyama designs.

Chrono Cross is an attempt to shit all over Chrono Trigger.

I know that. That's why I said Chrono Cross.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:47 am

I meant Hoenn. Which one is Orre?

Edit: so, the strange endings to the Ghost Eraser series are pretty funny. Also, once Forretress hits ~70th level, I'll be ready to attempt the Steel Challenge. Now Chandelure is going to hurt - I can totally expect to suffer a OHKO or two. Likewise there are a few Earthquakers that will make my non-levitators sad, and the Fighting dude is going to give me hell. But I have more Full Restores than he does, and some members of this team suffer neutral hits and have some STAB supereffectives.

If all else fails I'll stall, setting up Spikes x3, Toxic Spikes x2 and Stealth Rock, Whirlwinding as necessary.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:47 am

IIRC Orre is from the Colosseum games.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:07 pm

Indeed Orre is.

The Colosseum games were really fun, despite outward appearences.

And I wasn't making up the part about the Orre Police Force being doofs. They really are bumbling and incompetent. Like something out of a Three Stooges skit.