The Gaming Den

If you go through all the playtest packets, can you frankenstein together a decent game? Are there certain version of certain classes that have interesting mechanics worth looking at?

OgreBattle wrote:If you go through all the playtest packets, can you frankenstein together a decent game? Are there certain version of certain classes that have interesting mechanics worth looking at?

Not really. The core of a game system is, well, the system. Mearls has always claimed that he had plenty of time to "do the math later," so no system has ever been in place. It's Dwarf Rappers in steel tuxedos all the way down.

-Username17

Man, I've given GURPS plenty of shit in the past but at least Steve Jackson fucking realized that when people make homebrew settings with your game system it usually means they keep the core crunch and ditch the fluff. Fucking Mearls doesn't even seem to grok that his whole job is supposedly making life easier for MCs.

I feel the cover art of these 5e books suffers from a serious lack of hunky dudes like COnan and hot babes with cleavage. I am not excited about these books. Do you think the interior art will follow this disney wiener kid style?

Seerow wrote:Okay this is getting more hilarious with every post. No PC creation in the box, but you can create PCs without that. What.

Maybe they're thinking about going back to an SRD? Probably not, if they were that would be a source of publicity they could have leveraged by now. Unless they only want to reveal it after people buy books who otherwise wouldn't?

Avoraciopoctules wrote:

Seerow wrote:Okay this is getting more hilarious with every post. No PC creation in the box, but you can create PCs without that. What.

Maybe they're thinking about going back to an SRD? Probably not, if they were that would be a source of publicity they could have leveraged by now. Unless they only want to reveal it after people buy books who otherwise wouldn't?

On twitter some people asked about digital tools, and Mearls responded being deliberately vague. So it is within the realm of possibility that they are aiming for some form of SRD/Character Builder/whatever, but don't want to announce it until it's ready to launch for fear of a repeat of 4e's online tools.

Seerow wrote:On twitter some people asked about digital tools, and Mearls responded being deliberately vague. So it is within the realm of possibility that they are aiming for some form of SRD/Character Builder/whatever, but don't want to announce it until it's ready to launch for fear of a repeat of 4e's online tools.

They're worried about another murder-suicide? I feel like that's pretty much a one-off event for a gaming company, no matter what karma has on them.

Pedantic wrote:They're worried about another murder-suicide? I feel like that's pretty much a one-off event for a gaming company, no matter what karma has on them.

Really, the problem there wasn't the murder-suicide, but the fact that 1 guy was so central to the project that it fell apart without him. That is just stupid management that there was no excuse for.

Previn wrote:

Pedantic wrote:They're worried about another murder-suicide? I feel like that's pretty much a one-off event for a gaming company, no matter what karma has on them.

Really, the problem there wasn't the murder-suicide, but the fact that 1 guy was so central to the project that it fell apart without him. That is just stupid management that there was no excuse for.

Uh what? I heard about this a while back but was confused. Murder-Suicide? Please elaborate.

Pixels wrote:They are selling a game book for $40 that cannot even be used for two months? Insanity. I mean it literally; I cannot think of a single good reason to trickle out the core books.

and yet D&D exists with MM coming out in 1977, PHB in 1978, and DMG in 1979.

a whole year between books, how could such a product even work?

they SHOULD put them all out at once, but they likely want to build more buzz which could cause a backlash when the last book comes out and sucks.

but the DMG isnt about being rules to play this time, just advice, and you should only need the PHB and MM to play, so they say. DMG is only for novices or something like that. also the starter set has beginners rules for like up to 3rd level, so you can get familiar with the other rules in the mean time as you try out EVERYTHING in the starter set over those 3 months.

don't make me have to defend a shit product like 5e again, because it isnt worth it. jsut dont say something stupid like "no reason" when they are trying to get the "feel" of the old back and well it always came with a staggered release BEFORE WotC came along.

Although the murder-suicide certainly didn't help, the real problem is that WotC's software development wing is utterly, completely incompetent. Every single software thing they do (including their website) is utter shit and takes about 10 times as long to create as it should.

MisterDee wrote:Although the murder-suicide certainly didn't help, the real problem is that WotC's software development wing is utterly, completely incompetent. Every single software thing they do (including their website) is utter shit and takes about 10 times as long to create as it should.

Or just doesn't come out at all. Remember all the crap that they were supposed to produce for 4E. The character visualizer, the online game table, plus a ton of GM tools.

They ended up producing a character builder and nothing else.

Here's another question. What are they doing to explain the changes to the universes rules in canon.

2e-3e was Vecna bitch-slapping the lady of pain.

3e-4e was Mistra dying, starting the spellplage?

So whats 4e-5e?

Wiseman wrote:So whats 4e-5e?

4e became 5e "not with a bang, but a whimper"

Given the recent grab of the old logo and revival of garbage like Battlesystem, I wouldn't be surprised by "Fuck you, reset." It would ideally push people to buy old splatbooks from dndclassics.com while still doing whatever they want. They can still go as far as they want, J.J. Abrams style (bonus points if it references that), while still pushing the idea of recapturing what used to be.

Wiseman wrote:So whats 4e-5e?

Well, taking into account I heard one of the first 5E adventures is going back in time to prevent Mystra's murder and thus, denying 4E ever happened...

"The Sundering"
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sundering_(event)

Catastrophe as per usual. They're trying to get players to be involved in rebuilding the setting but I don't see why anyone would give a millifuck at this point.

Dogbert wrote:

Wiseman wrote:So whats 4e-5e?

Well, taking into account I heard one of the first 5E adventures is going back in time to prevent Mystra's murder and thus, denying 4E ever happened...

Source? This is pretty funny.

Well, they've certainly generated some press now. Why the hell they didn't release all this info at the last Con, though usual guess is something to do with printing and distribution woes at this late stage.

Anyway, PHB out in July means it's content-closed as of mid-February. Then six weeks on the Monster Manual to tweak the numbers to suit those characters, finished around Apr 1. Six more weeks to tidy up the DMG advice, and that's about now, or last week.

So they've announced it because it's finished. Some back-and-forward with the printers about binding and paper/ink combos and so on, thus the covers they've got to show a couple days after the announcement. But design and crunch and layout and art and so on is done.



Questions I didn't see answered here.
[*] They're putting chargen stuff "online" at launch. It's supposed to be 15% of the PHB. So the resolution mechanics for the first module will be self-contained, or available for download or something. So you don't need the PHB or MM or DMG to play the module. They say.

[*] Compatibility with past editions is reduced to "sidebars in the DMG". So the PHB should at least be self-consistent.

[*] Outsourcing the modules is just weird. They either fucking play this game or they don't. If they play it, it'll be less "ivory tower", and they can just print what they played, all fixed up from actual destructive playtesting. If they don't play it, ... the opposite of that, really.

[*] I had wondered why Kobold Quarterly went silent. They've been busy with this module set for about ... six months? Started writing around the date of the second-last playtest? Something like that.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.ph ... its-Amazon!

That's being kept up to date.

Amazon has the starter set for $13. I kind of want to get it and try it, but I really don't want to spend $13 on this impending crap pile.

On the other hand... it has great drunk review potential.

I don't normally pay attention to 5E, but this got linked on a blog.

http://wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20140527

"There’s a lot to talk about with the new game, but I’d like to take this week to focus on a piece of the puzzle we haven’t talked about yet: Basic Dungeons & Dragons.

Basic D&D is a PDF that covers the core of the game. It’s the equivalent of the old D&D Rules Cyclopedia, though it doesn’t have quite the same scope (for example, it won’t go into detail on a setting). It runs from levels 1 to 20 and covers the cleric, fighter, rogue, and wizard, presenting what we view as the essential subclass for each. It also provides the dwarf, elf, halfling, and human as race options.

But the best part? Basic D&D is a free PDF. Anyone can download it from our website. We want to put D&D in as many hands as possible, and a free, digital file is the best way to do that.

If Basic D&D is the equivalent of the classic Rules Cyclopedia, then the three core rulebooks are analogous to Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. Want more character options? Pick up a Player’s Handbook. Looking for more critters for your campaign? The Monster Manual has you covered. Want to sculpt a unique campaign? Pick up the Dungeon Master’s Guide. Still, Basic D&D is the true heart of the game and could easily provide a lifetime of gaming.

At the launch of the D&D Starter Set, Basic D&D will include the material needed to create characters and advance to 20th level. In August, with the release of the Player’s Handbook, Basic D&D will expand to include the essential monsters, magic items, and DM rules needed to run the game, along with the rules for wilderness, dungeon, and urban adventuring. (The Starter Set already covers the aspects of these rules that you need to run the included campaign.)"

I suspect that this won't really be any different from the playtests.

Which is a shame, because 5e D&D doesn't look like anything I actually want to play. Then again, I'm biased because Mearls is in charge and I don't think his work is worth money.

Well, from what I've seen of the playtest packets I'd rather play initial-release 5E D&D than initial-release 4E D&D. Of course, I'd rather have both of my testicles smashed with a tackhammer than both of them smashed with a tackhammer and spat in the eye.

Fucking bounded accuracy.

I'm excited I'll have something to shit on without paying money to do so. No one is unaware that this edition will be an unsaveable trainwreck but it will be nice to be able to lob insults at it without eating into my sandwich funds.