The Shadowrun Situation

[Stahlseele]

<shrug> I finally got my last comp copies in the mail.

Well, that's something right?
Not much, but something . . ah, who am i kidding <.<

[Username17]

<shrug> I finally got my last comp copies in the mail.

Well, that's something right?
Not much, but something . . ah, who am i kidding <.<

It actually does mean something.

The deal is that comp copies aren't just a courtesy, they are actually part of the contract. People sign the contract to write a section of a book in exchange for a modest amount of money and a small number of comp copies of the book. It's literally part of the compensation. So when Loren Coleman signed over every copy of the books to PSI, he was doing so apparently forgetting that he still needed a number of physical books to fulfill contractual obligations.

That Ancient History got his comp copies (a mere five months late in the best of cases) means that someone negotiated with PSI to give up some number of books to distribute back to the authors and production staff.

-Username17

[Stahlseele]

OK, i guess from that point of view it does have some interest to it . .

[BeeRockxs]

That Ancient History got his comp copies (a mere five months late in the best of cases) means that someone negotiated with PSI to give up some number of books to distribute back to the authors and production staff.

-Username17

Or they just bought them.
What does it matter anyways?

[Crissa]

It means they're doing more than Frank figured. It may be the fine print with the contract with PSI included either setting aside or distributing back comp copies. Which is actually fairly forward thinking.

Which might mean Topps or the lawyers they've hired are more competent and focused on getting Coleman on the right track. A track that might've saved the company had it happened two years ago.

The bad thing is that they're already years behind production and they've just lost some of their best talent and they're unlikely to get any of it back.

-Crissa

[Stahlseele]

That Ancient History got his comp copies (a mere five months late in the best of cases) means that someone negotiated with PSI to give up some number of books to distribute back to the authors and production staff.

-Username17

Or they just bought them.
What does it matter anyways?

*nods* could be that too, i guess.
even if it does seem a bit silly to me, to buy your own product.
but eh, gambling debts are honor debts i guess.
at least it could mean:"hey, look, we have enough money to buy and give away our own product agin"

[Wesley Street]

The bad thing is that they're already years behind production and they've just lost some of their best talent and they're unlikely to get any of it back.

Are they behind on BattleTech? Those gamers seem fairly contented.

[BeeRockxs]

I don't think they're behind with CBT at all.
TRO 3085 just saw print, as did HexPack: Lakes and Rivers, which finally brought mapsheets back into stores. Other than that, we had Operation Klondike this year, the print RS-books accompanying the recfent TROs, the turning points/historical turning points and XTROs PDF books, and the box set is just around the corner.
The CBT side is pretty swell.

[TheFlatline]

I don't think they're behind with CBT at all.
TRO 3085 just saw print, as did HexPack: Lakes and Rivers, which finally brought mapsheets back into stores. Other than that, we had Operation Klondike this year, the print RS-books accompanying the recfent TROs, the turning points/historical turning points and XTROs PDF books, and the box set is just around the corner.
The CBT side is pretty swell.

Every time I see "CBT" I think "Cock & Ball Torture".

Strangely enough, what I know about CGL makes it work.

[Username17]

The bad thing is that they're already years behind production and they've just lost some of their best talent and they're unlikely to get any of it back.

Are they behind on BattleTech? Those gamers seem fairly contented.

BT does not have a master schedule, so they can't fall behind on it. Shadowrun takes place "sixty five years from now." That means that right now, in 2010, they are supposed to be releasing the 2075 events. And the fact that they are not is indicative that they have fallen 3 years behind schedule (admittedly, one year of that was due to the collapse of FanPro).

But Battletech stuff just comes out "when it is ready." If they decided to release some books for 3025 this year, that would be fine. If they decided to release some Dark Ages material, that would be fine too. A lot of stuff is lost in development hell, but there's no schedule of what specifically is supposed to be coming out at any particular time. So they can't be behind schedule in the same way that Shadowrun is.

It also helps that BT gets more love from Randall and Loren than SR does. This means that even with some books falling into cracks or things becoming "unseen" they still have more releases than SR and it doesn't "feel" as behind schedule as SR does.

-Username17

[koz]

Strangely enough, I read 'CBT' as 'Cognitive Behavioural Therapy'.

[Blasted]

I don't think they're behind with CBT at all.
TRO 3085 just saw print, as did HexPack: Lakes and Rivers, which finally brought mapsheets back into stores. Other than that, we had Operation Klondike this year, the print RS-books accompanying the recfent TROs, the turning points/historical turning points and XTROs PDF books, and the box set is just around the corner.
The CBT side is pretty swell.

CBT is missing its 25th anniversary box set. Which has been due for a good 9 months now (possibly even longer.) It's a major piece of the battletech puzzle, and it's the only sane way for people to pick up battletech.

[Stahlseele]

And they still did not bring back the unseen . . it just looked like they did for some days last year or so . .

[TheFlatline]

I don't think they're behind with CBT at all.
TRO 3085 just saw print, as did HexPack: Lakes and Rivers, which finally brought mapsheets back into stores. Other than that, we had Operation Klondike this year, the print RS-books accompanying the recfent TROs, the turning points/historical turning points and XTROs PDF books, and the box set is just around the corner.
The CBT side is pretty swell.

CBT is missing its 25th anniversary box set. Which has been due for a good 9 months now (possibly even longer.) It's a major piece of the battletech puzzle, and it's the only sane way for people to pick up battletech.

I suspect at this point a 25th anniversary set would consist of no figs, no maps, abbreviated rules that read like an advertisement of Total Warfare, and some fanfiction... err... new fiction stuffed into the box.

And if you preorder it now, it'll get here a week before the world ends in 2012.

[Juton]

And they still did not bring back the unseen . . it just looked like they did for some days last year or so . .

They brought back some of the unseen, although not the coolest ones. All the designs from Macross are still verbotten which are 12 of the 26 'unseen' design but all the other ones are licensed.

[Stahlseele]

It's verboten, with only one t.
Also, yes, i know about the others and it's nice to know that the Thunderbolt, the Griffin, Goliath and some of the others are back . . BUT I WANT MY MARAUDER! MY WARHAMMER! Not those damn re-imaginations and the project phoenix crap <.< . . and even though some of the great old ones are indeed back, i'm afraid they won't show up simply because project phoenix has happened . .

[Rommie]

I suspect at this point a 25th anniversary set would consist of no figs, no maps, abbreviated rules that read like an advertisement of Total Warfare, and some fanfiction... err... new fiction stuffed into the box.

And if you preorder it now, it'll get here a week before the world ends in 2012.

Your fiction comment triggered a moment of insight, that I already know what said fanfiction... errr... new fiction will read like:

Opening paragraphs about our subject of the story, highlighting the unique faction/relationship/skill of our hero. (Example: wears State of Minnesota patch insignia on sleeve)

Subject does something stupid. Subject gets pwnd. Subject does something stupid because of getting pwnd. Subject either gets pwnd again, or pulls off brilliant escape from stupid actions, only to succumb to Cruel Fate.

(Note: there's a 50/50 chance that the story, in a Battletech boxed set, has the subject fighting in a Battlemech)

Cut to the interrogation room, with badly wounded subject tied up to chair. Because, when you think Battletech, you think Torture Porn.

Antagonist enters, and exchanges one paragraph of insults with subject.
Antagonist spends 500 words taunting subject with the N. Muntz HA HA.
Antagonist spends 500 words pontificating about something.
Antagonist then tells subject that It Didn't Matter what they did, that their unique ID is doomed, because the nation/nations/galaxy/setting/game is all about Power Hungry Madmen in the end.

Antagonist then "pours a box of salt" on badly wounded subject to finish them off.

(Another note: if subject is Female, include mentioning of Female body parts)

A professional snarkster could devastate CGL's BT fiction style if it was worth their time.

[Wesley Street]

BT does not have a master schedule, so they can't fall behind on it. Shadowrun takes place "sixty five years from now." That means that right now, in 2010, they are supposed to be releasing the 2075 events.

First time I've heard that SR has a master schedule or that events in the game universe always take place sixty-five years from today. That seems like an impossible schedule to keep for a small company made up of (mostly) amateur freelance writers. And I kind of doubt your average gamer cares if it's been 2072 for three years in the game universe.

All I care about is the release of products that aren't slap-dash and shitty. Can't even seem to get that.

[Ancient History]

Shadowrun has had an ambitious schedule of products for years - the problem is, things have been running so far behind that it's practically been the same schedule. Most line devs have wanted to get eight books out a year, and that's totally possible with good freelancers, a good development team, and all the business side of things squared away. The problem is the infrastructure was never there. Nobody ever invokes the penalty clauses to enforce deadlines on freelancers, and even once the freelancers are finished products can be stuck in editing and layout for months as priorities get reshuffled. Oftentimes the art isn't contracted at the same time the writing is, so the layout guy has to work around the spaces where the art will be and then you wait on the art. Proofing is a small nightmare, and mainly done by freelancers who aren't paid for it and who have nothing better to do, so they mostly stick to proofing their own chapters or sections. Then when the book finally goes to print and hits the street, the freelancers won't have a hardcopy of it for at least four to six months later, and if they're lucky they'll be paid by then too. If somebody hasn't been paid, it's not unheard of for them to hold their drafts hostage until they are.

Which doesn't explain poor-quality books. Jason literally ignored pages of proofing notes on Corp Guide and the Sixth World Almanac. That's just being a bad developer. What it explains is only getting 3-4 books out a year, and why books are printed out of order - like Vice (with it's section on Lone Star in Seattle) coming out after Seattle 2072 (where Lone Star have been ousted from Seattle).

[Wesley Street]

Which doesn't explain poor-quality books. Jason literally ignored pages of proofing notes on Corp Guide and the Sixth World Almanac. That's just being a bad developer.

Amongst many things, I find that particularly infuriating. I know I've caught many a typo or error when proofing and the changes were not made. I can see why a writer wouldn't even bother. Not that they should. Asking a writer to proof without compensation is insulting.

With most projects, three people will catch 90-95% of mistakes on the first go-round. Hiring a full-time proof-reader and paying a couple of part-timers per project isn't crazy. It doesn't have to be a big investment since most are working on it for the love. Of course catching mistakes doesn't mean a damn thing if the developer doesn't do his job and fix them.

All of these issues are so incredibly easy to fix. The fact that they're ignored has turned me completely away from game production.

[Ancient History]

One of my main arguments with Jason pre me terminating my contracts was his absolute and steadfast refusal to fix certain errors we'd caught in PACKS (not the PACKS that I eventually published, but the one that had gone through two rounds of proofing and playtesting already). This was literally a case of about a dozen minor changes that needed to be made, on a product that wasn't due to print, and he was completely unwilling to incorporate the fixes - he said he'd rather release them as errata! We went around and around on that one.

But that's really been Jason's style - even if someone else has already gone through the trouble of locating the errors and producing a guide to fixing it, even if the document is literally sitting there for days or weeks before being sent to the printer, getting him to actually implement the changes has been like pulling fucking teeth. I'm not even talking about someone criticizing Jason's own personal short fiction and offering corrections and replacement, I'm talking any proofing at all. Jason would rather launch a flawed product than take the time or effort to do something correctly.

[adamjury]

Oftentimes the art isn't contracted at the same time the writing is, so the layout guy has to work around the spaces where the art will be and then you wait on the art.

I've actually grown to prefer that style: bust the book through layout, leaving art holes where appropriate to deal with the flow of the book and in places where we know we'll need art, and then write art notes and contract the art to fill in all those places. Plus, that gives us some time to figure out if we need any spot writing to fluff things up, and the layout can go into proofreading much sooner.

[Ancient History]

Fair enow. I remember for Seattle 2072 they asked me to generate a bunch of art notes for the short fiction and the pieces weren't all assigned yet. I couldn't tell you whether it's easier for a writer to do a piece based on a piece of artwork or an artist to do a piece based on a bit of writing.

[adamjury]

That situation isn't the situation I described and you originally described, though.

[Ancient History]

Yeah, sorry, wasn't being clear there. I should probably have separated that out with a space or something for clarity. The point my left brain was trying to make when it took control of the typing fingers was that there are advantages and disadvantages to when and how you do the art. Ordering the art ahead of time, you have to have a slightly more detailed plan of what's going to be in the book so you can tell the artist what to do. If you order the art after the writing, there's more wiggle-room, writing-wise because you're not constrained by a piece of art (provided you don't just hand the piece back to the artist and ask them to take the diaper off the troll's head).

Which can be difficult. There was a bit in Ghost Cartels where the fiction had a guy using a machete to cut off somebody's head, and the artist of the accompanying illustration (for reasons I forget) decided to draw it as a small katana instead. Pretty sure we ended up changing the fiction just because it was easier, even if it made no damn sense.

Even with layout-before-art, you can run into some weirdness where people see an art-shaped hole and just fill it with something. Which is how the same full-page layout managed to be used twice in Vice.