An sich it would be nice to have some kind of action point pool to get some granularity without all these different type of action types ... but I guess it doesn't jive with movement, a giant being able to more quickly open a door because he has long legs and all.Sashi wrote:last time I read the playtest document, in D&D Next you had "actions" and "movement". As in you have one "action" and thirty "feet" of "movement".
then attacking or casting a spell costs "an action", while moving five feet costs five "feet of movement".
Other things that are "not an action" but instead cost five "feet of movement":
Standing from prone.
Opening a door.
Moving 2.5 feet through difficult terrain.
Swimming 2.5 feet.
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Last edited by MfA on Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MfA wrote:a giant being able to more quickly open a door because he has long legs and all.
assuming you meant long arms sued to opent he door and not legs, it still doesnt change the arc the door swings and length of that arc required to open the door, be it giant or halfling.
Play the game, not the rules.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
Maybe 4E fanbase is actually a secret cult, and renouncing everything that is 3E is a part of their tenets.Koumei wrote:I just wanted to mention that I saw a post elsewhere last night saying that Next is going to be terrible because "It's turning out too much like 3E". One of the reasons included was that you apparently can now make a Standard OR Move Action each turn.
If that part is true, then wow, it really is shit in a bucket. But I love how the 4rries have to say that something is like 3E for it to be bad. Because the two words are literally synonimous to them.
Or maybe butthurt does strange things to people, and the position where is your fandom is too big for you to use elitism as a defense reaction, yet visibly smaller than your main rival fandom, ought to generate a lot of butthurt from insecure fans.
NB: 5e totally has movement which you can split before and after your action (and sometimes in the middle of), and it has actions (which include "hustling" for extra movement, or "withdrawing" to get out of melee, which is good terminology), but then it also has reactions, and various things which are neither actions nor movement thieves, and a lot of other things you need to track ... whatever.
But, like, a year ago or something Monte talked about maybe using just one action per round "to speed up combat" on their blog thing, so someone there obviously stopped reading at that point.
But, like, a year ago or something Monte talked about maybe using just one action per round "to speed up combat" on their blog thing, so someone there obviously stopped reading at that point.
PC, SJW, anti-fascist, not being a dick, or working on it, he/him.
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CapnTthePirateG
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Now there's a monk, guys! According to Mearls, it has expertise dice, skill training (guess what, you don't care because all skills are "argue with the DM") and doesn't scale unarmed. Let's look at the packet, shall we?
We've got our trusty monk alignment requirements. Good to know that shit's important.
They get a small pool of ki moves, including stunning and healing, that can be used a very limited amount of times per day. They also get Wis to AC to compensate for the lack of armor and shield, which I don't think it does.
They also have fixed unarmed damage so it can be improved with ki strikes, and get some mental immunities at 7th level. Overall not very interesting, just like the rest of 5e.
We've got our trusty monk alignment requirements. Good to know that shit's important.
They get a small pool of ki moves, including stunning and healing, that can be used a very limited amount of times per day. They also get Wis to AC to compensate for the lack of armor and shield, which I don't think it does.
They also have fixed unarmed damage so it can be improved with ki strikes, and get some mental immunities at 7th level. Overall not very interesting, just like the rest of 5e.
OgreBattle wrote:"And thus the denizens learned that hating Shadzar was the only thing they had in common, and with him gone they turned their venom upon each other"
-Sarpadian Empires, vol. I
And just like 3e monks!
Last edited by Maxus on Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
One day, someone will figure out that "increasing multiple attribute dependency" is a bug, not a fvcking feature.CapnTthePirateG wrote:They also get Wis to AC to compensate for the lack of armor and shield, which I don't think it does.
TheFlatline wrote:This is like arguing that blowjobs have to be terrible, pain-inflicting endeavors so that when you get a chick who *doesn't* draw blood everyone can high-five and feel good about it.
The threads I've seen about it are mostly about the alignment prereq. Not sure why WotC thought that would be popular, most people seem to hate it. Unless they put it in there to distract people from the other problems of the class - but if they were that smart then why not do a less shitty job in the first place?
Abilities are all over the fucking place - one gives you 6 movement for an expertise die, another gives you 1-10 movement for multiple dice. There's no consistency in how things work either. This is RIFTS shit - most of 3E was better than this, 4E was better than this - why are they devolving?
Abilities are all over the fucking place - one gives you 6 movement for an expertise die, another gives you 1-10 movement for multiple dice. There's no consistency in how things work either. This is RIFTS shit - most of 3E was better than this, 4E was better than this - why are they devolving?
Last edited by Ice9 on Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I don't know why I even care, I can play Pathfinder, or some other version of D&D. But seeing this shit makes me just sad. I doesn't even look like they are trying to do anything serious, just goofing around, massivly trolling whoever still cares.
Who is holding the license anyway? Still Hasbro? Anyone has an idea if they would consider selling the license, if it tanked bad enough? And who would be willing to grad it? Paizo doesn't need that shit, I guess, but who else is out there who has any money to pay for it?
*sigh*
Somehow I think that has already ben talked about. Whatever. Need to learn to no longer to care.
Who is holding the license anyway? Still Hasbro? Anyone has an idea if they would consider selling the license, if it tanked bad enough? And who would be willing to grad it? Paizo doesn't need that shit, I guess, but who else is out there who has any money to pay for it?
*sigh*
Somehow I think that has already ben talked about. Whatever. Need to learn to no longer to care.
To a man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail.
does it really matter?Ice9 wrote:The threads I've seen about it are mostly about the alignment prereq. Not sure why WotC thought that would be popular, most people seem to hate it.
did anything stop people form playing anti-paladins that were evil in 1st or 2nd, just because the book said paladin are LG?
at your game you do what you want, the only problem is when everyone forces the RIGHTWAY, ONETRUEWAY of RAW onto other people.
Play the game, not the rules.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
That is because it is a feature. Though often the cost you pay for the feature is quite often too high.talozin wrote:One day, someone will figure out that "increasing multiple attribute dependency" is a bug, not a fvcking feature.CapnTthePirateG wrote:They also get Wis to AC to compensate for the lack of armor and shield, which I don't think it does.
Gary Gygax wrote:The player’s path to role-playing mastery begins with a thorough understanding of the rules of the game
Bigode wrote:I wouldn't normally make that blanket of a suggestion, but you seem to deserve it: scroll through the entire forum, read anything that looks interesting in term of design experience, then come back.
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CapnTthePirateG
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I have said as much before, but I feel it is worth repeating; I believe the playtest to be a preemptive PR strategy.
I'll expand upon this.
I would suspect that most independant, basement dweling game designers make RPG's because they like making games. It's a primary motivation. Money is not the primary focus, but it is a means to an end; They like making games, but in in order to publish games, pay artists and develop new content, they need money. Making games is their passion, making a good game is a matter of personal pride.
A company like Hasbro has a different primary motivation. I assume they have resposibilities to their shareholders or other investors, so their primary motivation is make money, to keep their revenue stream coming in at a reasonably consistant and predictable rate. Making games is not their primaty motivation, it is simply a means to an end (making money).
Regardless of the intentions within WoTC, the designers still have to answer to Hasbro. This means that the game designers working there, probably have expectations laid out for them by a suit in the head office; product lines, publishing dates, ongoing devepment and that kind of shit.
Now, just because Hasbro primarily cares about money, does not mean they do not care about the quality of their product. They no doubt realise that if they have a product that is of poor quality, it could damage the reputation of their brand and alienate consumers. But if they sell the perfect product, they are also going to have a hard time flogging new products to consumers. It could be argued that the image is more important than substance though. It does not matter if they are selling shit, so long as it is shit people think they like.
Now the cynic in me thinks that Hasbro does not care about the quality of the product they are flogging. They have just found a way to shift the resposibility for the quality of the product onto the consumer as part of their little Xanatos gambit; it's not Harbro's fault that D&D Next will fail to meet the expectations of consumers, they conducted an extended playtest and solicited feedback from fans to ensure the consumer got exactly what they wanted.
It's preemtive insulation against any negative fallout, manufactured to protect the brand from controversy like the 4e edition wars. It's not their fault Next is a steaming pile of shit, it's the other consumers who got what they wanted. Want to do something about it? A patch/D&D 6 is planned for 2015, feel free to contribute to the ongoing playtest.
I'll expand upon this.
I would suspect that most independant, basement dweling game designers make RPG's because they like making games. It's a primary motivation. Money is not the primary focus, but it is a means to an end; They like making games, but in in order to publish games, pay artists and develop new content, they need money. Making games is their passion, making a good game is a matter of personal pride.
A company like Hasbro has a different primary motivation. I assume they have resposibilities to their shareholders or other investors, so their primary motivation is make money, to keep their revenue stream coming in at a reasonably consistant and predictable rate. Making games is not their primaty motivation, it is simply a means to an end (making money).
Regardless of the intentions within WoTC, the designers still have to answer to Hasbro. This means that the game designers working there, probably have expectations laid out for them by a suit in the head office; product lines, publishing dates, ongoing devepment and that kind of shit.
Now, just because Hasbro primarily cares about money, does not mean they do not care about the quality of their product. They no doubt realise that if they have a product that is of poor quality, it could damage the reputation of their brand and alienate consumers. But if they sell the perfect product, they are also going to have a hard time flogging new products to consumers. It could be argued that the image is more important than substance though. It does not matter if they are selling shit, so long as it is shit people think they like.
Now the cynic in me thinks that Hasbro does not care about the quality of the product they are flogging. They have just found a way to shift the resposibility for the quality of the product onto the consumer as part of their little Xanatos gambit; it's not Harbro's fault that D&D Next will fail to meet the expectations of consumers, they conducted an extended playtest and solicited feedback from fans to ensure the consumer got exactly what they wanted.
It's preemtive insulation against any negative fallout, manufactured to protect the brand from controversy like the 4e edition wars. It's not their fault Next is a steaming pile of shit, it's the other consumers who got what they wanted. Want to do something about it? A patch/D&D 6 is planned for 2015, feel free to contribute to the ongoing playtest.
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nockermensch
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While what you wrote doesn't seem wrong, I think the actual reasoning is much simpler: Paizo did the open playtest before and delivered a successful product (for the values of "success" that matter for a company, namely $$$)Winnah wrote:I have said as much before, but I feel it is worth repeating; I believe the playtest to be a preemptive PR strategy.
I'll expand upon this.
<words>
@ @ Nockermensch
Koumei wrote:After all, in Firefox you keep tabs in your browser, but in SovietPutin's Russia, browser keeps tabs on you.
Mord wrote:Chromatic Wolves are massively under-CRed. Its "Dood to stone" spell-like is a TPK waiting to happen if you run into it before anyone in the party has Dance of Sack or Shield of Farts.
Paizo is an American publisher.
Hasbro is a multinational corporation with several subsiduaries.
Hasbro may be taking cues from smaller companies, but I think the mindset and motivations behind their respective playtests are very different.
Both are designed to get consumers engaged with the product before release. However, I think the people at Paizo have much more of a personal investment in the success of PF, than the people at Hasbro do with D&D Next.
Of course the only thing I know about corporate practices come from skimming though various shareholder documents and releases, which is to say, not much at all.
Hasbro is a multinational corporation with several subsiduaries.
Hasbro may be taking cues from smaller companies, but I think the mindset and motivations behind their respective playtests are very different.
Both are designed to get consumers engaged with the product before release. However, I think the people at Paizo have much more of a personal investment in the success of PF, than the people at Hasbro do with D&D Next.
Of course the only thing I know about corporate practices come from skimming though various shareholder documents and releases, which is to say, not much at all.
In one of his articles, Mearls said they deliberately dropped Turn Undead from the cleric in one in-house playtest to see whether people said "WTF, where's my Turn Undead!?" or whether they took it in stride. The "WTF, monks shouldn't be lawful-only!" is probably one of two reactions they're looking for, the other being "Thank Pelor, I was worried the monk would be open to any alignment!" Either reaction tells them how they should proceed, and which reaction they actually get is irrelevant.Ice9 wrote:The threads I've seen about it are mostly about the alignment prereq. Not sure why WotC thought that would be popular, most people seem to hate it. Unless they put it in there to distract people from the other problems of the class - but if they were that smart then why not do a less shitty job in the first place?
How do they not map 1-1? In 6 seconds you can move up to your movement, seems pretty 1-1 to me ... so somehow a centaur can open a door more quickly because has a a set of extra legs.Sashi wrote:You do have an action point system, the "points" are "feet of movement" which clearly do not map 1-1 to the actually number of feet you can move
Because when you swim you spend 10 'feet of movement' to move five feet.MfA wrote:How do they not map 1-1? In 6 seconds you can move up to your movement, seems pretty 1-1 to me ... so somehow a centaur can open a door more quickly because has a a set of extra legs.Sashi wrote:You do have an action point system, the "points" are "feet of movement" which clearly do not map 1-1 to the actually number of feet you can move
How does a Mermaid work? Or a Griffon? A mounted character? Guy with a peg-leg? Why are dwarves less efficient at opening doors than humans?
The system as written snaps under the pressure of dealing with literally anything that is not a bipedal humanoid walking under its own power.
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Foxwarrior
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Centaurs are huge and they kick with horse feet to open doors faster.
Mermaids and other swimming creatures would just get the "Fish Mobility" tag which make them spend 1mp for 1ft in water, and they can't even spend mp to move across land (or maybe they can struggle their whole turn to move one 5ft-square).
This isn't even hard Sashi.
Mermaids and other swimming creatures would just get the "Fish Mobility" tag which make them spend 1mp for 1ft in water, and they can't even spend mp to move across land (or maybe they can struggle their whole turn to move one 5ft-square).
This isn't even hard Sashi.
And why can they drink potions more efficiently?Lokathor wrote:Centaurs are huge and they kick with horse feet to open doors faster.
Yes that's actually what I'm getting at: it's not even difficult. It's so not difficult that you actually assumed that's what they had done and assumed that they have some kind of "move points" that you spend on minor actions and "movement modes". Something like "Unless otherwise stated, a character has 6 Move Points (MP) and may spend one MP to move five feet up to their maximum ground speed".Lokathor wrote:Mermaids and other swimming creatures would just get the "Fish Mobility" tag which make them spend 1mp for 1ft in water, and they can't even spend mp to move across land (or maybe they can struggle their whole turn to move one 5ft-square).
So:
Human: MP 6, Ground 30'
Dwarf: MP 5, Ground 25'
Halfling: MP 6, Ground 25'
Quickling: MP 8, Ground 30'
Then you have special movement modes:
Horse: MP 6, Ground 60' (1MP:10')
Centaur: MP 5, Ground 40 (1MP:10')
Merfolk: MP 6, Swim 30', Ground 1 (6MP:20')
Gryphon: MP 6, Ground 30, Air 60 (1MP: 10')
Gibbon: MP 6, Ground 15 (2MP:5'), Climb 40 (1MP:10')
Hill Giant: MP 4, Ground 40 (1MP:10')
This system is easy to use and clear, and you can even cover interesting things like a Hill Giant that covers ground really fast despite seeming so slow and lumbering.
But in the 5E system that's not what happens at all. Instead the speed 40 Giant is also just better and faster at everything. He stands from prone faster, draws weapons faster, drinks potions faster, etc etc. And I still don't know a way to describe a speed 30 dude on a speed 60 horse other than to say "it costs the rider five feet of movement for every ten feet of movement his horse spends". Or he gets the horse's speed, which means he can suddenly drink twice as many potions in a round.
Last edited by Sashi on Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.