The Gaming Den

PhoneLobster wrote:, a great deal more land area

No, you don't.

according to a quickie on Wikipedia...

Australia has an area of 7,617,930 square kilometers.

The US has an area of 9,826,675 square kilometers.

It's Wikipedia, so I wouldn't be surprised if the figures are a little off. But I doubt being a little inaccurate can account 2.2 square kilometers.

Of course, you -could- mean you have a lot more land to settle and that may be true. But it's not like the US is hurting for interior room, either. Quite a lot of the western Continental states are still mostly government-owned.

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/writing/i ... e_west.jpg

I'll admit those figures are closer than I expected, but in the end confusing since apparently Australia isn't counting all it's islands or external territories and the USA is counting a bunch of islands and territories we arent... and a bunch of water? (what the hell? The great lakes I give you, but coastal water areas?).

Anyway. The point is we have a ridiculously low population density out here. Huge land area, very small population, again, less than a 10th the size of the USA. We have a lot of room to fire guns in and lots of feral pest animals to fire guns at, and absolutely no-one nearby to notify the media when we shoot 90 year old men in the face with shot guns on drunken fowl hunting romps.

From the CIA factbook:

Australia, including Lord Howe & Macquarie Islands: 7,741,220 km^2
US, ONLY 50 states and DC: 9,826,675 km^2

For comparison size on Australia, the Factbook said, "[Australia is] slightly smaller than the US contiguous 48 states."

While Australia's technical population density is lower, more Aussies live in cities - 89% of the population is urbanized. It's 82% in the US.

PoliteNewb wrote:3.) Handguns are among the MOST USEFUL guns, because they are the only kind you can have on you when you need it unexpectedly.

If I actually thought or knew that I was going into a situation where I'd need a gun to defend myself, I either wouldn't go, or I'd bring a rifle. The point of handguns is that you DON'T know when you might need it, so you need something convenient to carry.

The fuck would you go into a situation where yo needed a gun for defense? Thats just putting your life at risk.

Keeping a gun for defense is the worst reason to have one. It requires a loaded weapon in easy reach. Thats how kids shoot themselves accidentally. Its also illegal in Australia, the gun must be in one safe and the ammunition in a second safe. Now its safe from kids/drunks/half asleep people who's kid just got home late.

I can understand going into situations where you need a loaded gun for defence, people do it all the time. However, usually those situations come with a member of the police force of the ADF whos job it is to carry the gun and do any required shooting.

The problem is not that people want to carry a gun for defense; the problem is that they want to carry a gun to shoot someone.

I mean, if you carry a rifle, no one is going to try to rob or rape you, but if you carry a handgun they will try and then you get to shoot them. It's a power fantasy, not a matter of protection.

Draco_Argentum wrote:The fuck would you go into a situation where yo needed a gun for defense? Thats just putting your life at risk.

Because that is where the money is. We can't put these walls around the "bad neighborhoods" and prevent the starving people from trying to break out. Goods needs to be delivered, buildings needs to be repaired.

tzor wrote:

Draco_Argentum wrote:The fuck would you go into a situation where yo needed a gun for defense? Thats just putting your life at risk.

Because that is where the money is. We can't put these walls around the "bad neighborhoods" and prevent the starving people from trying to break out. Goods needs to be delivered, buildings needs to be repaired.

Wat.

Now you're saying that UPS drivers and plumbers should be packing heat? Should we arm the kid bagging groceries at the Food Lion too?

Actually I can think of a legitimate reason why someone might need a handgun:

Kind of hard to do with a rifle or shotgun.

Koumei wrote:Actually I can think of a legitimate reason why someone might need a handgun:

Kind of hard to do with a rifle or shotgun.

Is this really that hard?

PoliteNewb wrote:To Cthulu: apologies for my mistake regarding your nationality; I mistakenly implied from your defense of the British system that you were British.

Regarding where criminals get guns, yes, they steal them from legal owners. But thinking that "if there are no legal owners, they won't be able to get guns" is idiotic...as I've just demonstrated with Britain, even a complete ban cannot prevent the importation of illegal weapons. And as I said to Red Rob, this is a moot argument...Pandora's box has been opened, there are already far too many weapons in America to get rid of them all, even if such a thing were desirable.

No they don't, they buy them legally (over 60% of guns used in crime are from legal sales). Only 10-15% are stolen from legal owners. We can clearly see that if you couldn't buy them legally, then the major source would dry uo.

Please try again.

Secondly, err, it's totally true. Very few weapons get illegally imported into British.

Thirdly, err, you got any evidence of that what so ever?

Koumei wrote:Actually I can think of a legitimate reason why someone might need a handgun:

Kind of hard to do with a rifle or shotgun.

Not that hard

England is such a wonderful land. They have had a whole history where their leaders have gone wacko from time to time and like lambs led to the slaughter or sheep to the sheerers, they are silent and open not their mouths.

They would prefer instead to pray for an annti-hero like Robin Hood or V.

When the United Kingdom becomes an Islamic state, V will not save you, because V is FICTION. (So was Robin Hood.)

violence in the media wrote:Wat.

Now you're saying that UPS drivers and plumbers should be packing heat? Should we arm the kid bagging groceries at the Food Lion too?

Yes.

On a personal note, I don't think guns as defense would work for me.

If the goon, thieves, whatever want to take my stuff and things, I'd let them.

One, my life is a lot more important than that 42 inch tv. Hell, it's still more important than that heirloom vase that maw-maw gave you.

Also, this is why you have homeowners/renters insurance.
Also, while farfetched/unlikely, the cops are around to help you get your stuff back.
It is much more feasible to catch these thieves, if you are alive enough to give a description about it.

If you shoot a guy in the face, you can say self-defense, but, K can correct me on this, don't you need to show reasonable doubt that they meant bodily harm?

edit: fixed it so sentences make more sense.

tzor wrote:England is such a wonderful land. They have had a whole history where their leaders have gone wacko from time to time and like lambs led to the slaughter or sheep to the sheerers, they are silent and open not their mouths.

I'm sure you have at least one example, rather than just assertive ramblings, right?

Cynic wrote: If the goon, thieves, whatever want to take my stuff and things, I'd let them.

See, I'd probably just be shot if someone tried to pry anything from me.

You gotta understand, I've spent a long time on bare-bones existence. That $50 might not be worth dying for in 99.999% of people, I recognize that my life experiences are far from the "norm". To me, that $50 has to put gas in my car until I get paid in two weeks.

They would have to kill or severely incapacitate me to rob me at gunpoint.

Now, one could probably do a snatch-and-grab on me to rob me because I have the reflexes of a snail and can't run very fast. But I don't think anyone on either side of the debate is okay with me chasing someone flailing a gun around and discharging wildly.

Cynic wrote:If you shoot a guy in the face, you can say self-defense, but, K can correct me on this, don't you need to show reasonable doubt that they meant bodily harm?

Sorta. You don't have to show it, but the cops have to see it. Perhaps an example would help?

One night I got called to the house of this jittery piece of shit spaz to investigate a burglary. I arrive and he's freaking out, as usual. He claimed that he saw shadows through his window and heard a noise at his basement door. He picked up a piece of lumber and went down to the basement. He said that the door was ajar and a man was standing outside trying to kidnap his puppy. He said he yelled at the man that he couldn't take the puppy and admitted hitting him in the head with the lumber. The man ran away, dropping a car battery that the owner said was kept in the basement.

The basement door showed marks consistent with forced entry.
The lumber had a dent in it and some blood spots.
The neighbor said she didn't hear anything.
The homeowner had a misdemeanor warrant in another county.
The homeowner doesn't have a history of violence.
We did not receive a 911 call from a man who had been hit in the head by a lunatic while walking down the street.

My partner and I determined that crimes had been committed (burglary 2nd, attempted puppynapping 3nd) that made the homeowner's use of force lawful. We sent the suspect's blood sample to CSI Alabama, where a hot Southern blonde with an incredible rack solved the crime in 42 minutes, not counting commercial breaks.

Hey, who is utterly batshit crazy and credulously swallows every single lunatic right wing lie hook line and sinker no matter how stupid and ridiculous it may be?...

tzor wrote:When the United Kingdom becomes an Islamic state....

... why it's... Tzor!

If the people of Great Britain choose to become an islamic state I don't see what the big deal is.

People act like they like democracy... until someone they don't agree with becomes the majority.

PhoneLobster wrote:Hey, who is utterly batshit crazy and credulously swallows every single lunatic right wing lie hook line and sinker no matter how stupid and ridiculous it may be?...

Oh my goodness you are right ... every single one.

While Muslim sexual predators have been jailed, it is white Britain's hypocritical values that are to blame

1 in 3 UK College Muslims Support Killing for Islam, 40% Want Sharia

Tzor, stop googling ... don't you know Google is a tool of Glen Beck?

WikiLeaks: British Outreach to Muslim Community Fails



OMG he's using images, quick, stop him before he finds a black board.

The British government has stumbled in its outreach to the Muslim community because it has chosen to appease, rather than undermine, the groups guilty of anti-Western agitation. Their powerful voice and smooth talking have led the government to erroneously view them as the gatekeepers to the Muslim community that must be won over. One of the greatest weapons the Islamists have today is the ignorance of the Western governments.

Stop him before he finds the Telegraph ...

Muslim man 'threatened to kill' cousin unless she wore hijab, court told

Too late.

Tzor, a bunch of Muslims being extreme is not evidence of an Islamic country unless Muslims are in the majority or hold the majority of the political power.

Muslims are so incredibly damn far away from that, that claiming it will happen is absurd. It could happen that eventually Muslims outnumber everyone else and are still extreme. Or it could happen that over the next several thousand years british muslims become more british and less muslim. To claim knowledge of how that will turn out is in fact crazy talk.

Kaelik basically has the reason why Tzor is a batshit nuts idiot on this one right there.

But I will add in that Tzor is also a xenophobic racist because the old "the X breed like rabbits and X are going to steal our nation and our women folk" is an old, OLD, OLD racist slur used by xenophobic morons since the dawn of time.

And the Koreans, the Chinese, the Maltese and the Irish and the Catholics and all the others for some reason never DID take over western democratic nations and destroy them. Every single one of them just became part of the nations they migrated to.

Muslims are no different and in 10-15 years time Tzor is going to be forgetting the past in order to repeat it and making racist rants about how the Mongolian breeder migrants are going to take over democratic Japan.

PhoneLobter where in hell did you get the notion that I ever said "X breeds like rabbits?" Granted most Europeans don't breed at all (population growth is in fact negative) but that's beside the point. Political correctness and the fact that Muslims are quite insistant that they don't want to integrate but to bring their ways to the UK is the problem.

Ironically I deliberately omitted a link that talked about British women converting to Islam in record numbers because ... well that was more in line with your silly accusation and not in line with my argument.

tzor wrote:PhoneLobter where in hell did you get the notion that I ever said "X breeds like rabbits?"

Because that is word for word the argument used to claim that Muslims are/will take over the UK and Europe. That you are stepping away from that is nice, but basically a lie on your part about what you were claiming was happening.

Political correctness and the fact that Muslims are quite insistant that they don't want to integrate but to bring their ways to the UK is the problem.

A) that isn't actually at all true

B) that is not the primary angle of the right wing "OMG muslims in the EU!!!!! We is shitting out pantz AAAAAH!!!!" hysteria, it is ALWAYS about some complete bullshit population demographics cherry picked by xenophobes with racist agendas who know nothing about history or statistics.

No. You do NOT get to pull "but political correctness gives mulsims SUPER POWERS!!!!!" as the argument you were supposedly presenting because that makes you not only the only right wing DUPE on the planet to believe that but ALSO makes you measurable stupider than the breed like rabbits xenophobes. I mean at least THEY believe in something remotely sensible (before you know, like 1 second of analysis) like weight of numbers, not SUPER POWERS GRANTED BY POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.

No really political correctness is going to overthrow western democracy and install sharia law? HOW FUCKING STUPID ARE YOU?