Election 2016

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:40 am

Trump has gone bankrupt repeatedly. His empire continues because he has been able to leverage his own name recognition into getting more stupid investors to throw money at him so that he can smear caviar on his children (not a joke).

What this means is that you're seeing Herman Cain +++. Trump is looking to get maximum name recognition out of this race. Ideally, he'd hit #1 for a while, be seen in at least one debate, and then go out of the race in a manner he could blame on a shadowy conspiracy. So from that perspective, riling up the racist base of the Republicans by saying the shit that other candidates only try to use coded dog whistle statements to get across is fucking perfect. He'll get a whole bunch of horrible people to pledge for him in polls, and a whole lot of people and companies will turn on him. Secondly, since he is going for the #1 spot, the only person he really needs to attack is the guy in the current #1 spot - which in this case is Jeb! Bush. Since he isn't going for longterm likeability so much as simple notoriety, personal attacks on Jeb! make perfect sense.

Trump is an asshole and a clown, but he's not stupid. He lacks the political skills to actually get elected or run the country, and he probably actually knows that. But if you look at this campaign as simply Trump building another giant golden penis shaped structure with his name on it in order to convince other rich people to keep throwing money at him, it all makes total sense.

Meanwhile, remember the understudy situation? Ten guys get into the first debate, and then ten guys get into the second debate. We have a 17th clown car member in the form of Jim Gilmore, former Virginia governor. He's going to announce in the first week of August, which means he's hoping to get an announcement bump right as the post-debate polls start coming in. Since the September placements are based on an average of July and August polls, if a few of the marginal placers in the first poll drop out or have their numbers fall to Jindal levels, a newcomer with a strong announcement bump could make the cut for debate 2 with a narrative of strong momentum or some shit (and also sit out the shit storm that is going to be the first debate).

It's a risky strategy, but then so is Kasich's plan to save his formal announcement of candidacy until July 21st. These Johnny Come Latelys are trying to hit the poll cut off dates smelling like ripe fruit. And what's completely insane about this process is that it might actually work.

-Username17

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:35 pm

Trump has apparently also been making noises about running as an independent when if he doesn't get the nomination. It could just be a smokescreen to buff his maverick rep, but he could also be angling for a big ransom payment from whoever winds up winning the convention.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:59 pm

So, this happened-

[img]http://www.surcompany.com/listing1-waff ... sssd1a.jpg

The phrase "never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence" comes to mind, but I'm not sure anyone is that incompetent.

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:01 pm

So there's a talking point floating around that the openly racist nonsense Trump has been spouting is a disgrace to the party of Reagan. Local Letter to the Editor.

If this isn't just one of the other candidates' astroturf, it could actually be a teachable moment about just how close Trump and Reagan's ideologies and policies are and offer a chance to those not attuned to the dog whistles that the less blatantly outrageous candidates use about what modern US Republicanism really stands for. I have a number of similarities, but anyone here want to posit their own such list before I finalize it?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:29 pm

Lee Atwater wrote:You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nig ger, nig ger, nig ger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nig ger”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nig ger, nig ger.”

Spaces added because this board bleeps the word [EDITED]. But it's an important interview from 1981 by Republican campaign strategist Lee Atwater.

-Username17

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:33 pm

I don't think it's a surprise to anybody that conservatives in general and Republicans in particular are more racist than liberals and Democrats; at least since the Dixiecrat went Republican. Obama's run for president just brought it to the surface. The GOP is overwhelmingly white, and even in these days when they tend to frame the issues more politely, a number of their political points boil down to Lee Atwater's famous quote.

And that's still how it is today. What Trump is saying resonates with the base because a lot of the GOP base are racists. The rest of the candidates know that this is too offensive for the moderates in their party, but they're only looking to see what other parts of the electorate they can offend and get away with - non-Christians, women, the poor, anyone with an advanced degree, etc.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:17 pm

This thread got a lot more fun after I installed TrumpWeb

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:50 pm

Orion wrote:This thread got a lot more fun after I installed TrumpWeb

^this.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:51 pm

though there are times when I forget I have it installed and I'm trying to find a relevance between the quote and the post because I think it was put there by the poster.

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:38 pm

John Kasich gets ready to join the primary. He's apparently more sane on many issues than the rest of the party. He seems like someone who could be a threat in the general election if he were miraculously able to win in the primary. The latter is not likely though, given that he can't win the "I'm moar conservative than you!" pissing match that will ensue in the primary.

In other news: Trump just as crazy as ever. He's attacking McCain's war record and whining that people don't defend his shitty haircut. Also, how the fuck does Donald Trump get 24% in a poll?

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:45 pm

RobbyPants wrote:Also, how the fuck does Donald Trump get 24% in a poll?

Because the right wing in this country really has gone super-extremist batshit insane. If you compare their current positions on most anything to what they held even during the Bush Jr. administration, it's obvious. A lot of people don't realize this, because chickenshit reporting has normalized things like filibusters-as-default, and economic plans without numbers. And of course, even when right-wing madness is reported accurately, people just don't believe it, because it sounds too 'cartoonishly evil.'

To the people living in the conservative media bubble, Trump is the only one telling the unvarnished truth, and any candidate who still relies on mere dog-whistle phrases is some species of politically-correct mumbling establishment apologist.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:20 pm

The actual reason is because these polls don't matter, No one has even heard of Scott Walker, and policy positions haven't been outlined because no one has had any kind of actual event like a debate to address points, and Trump is in the media.

So in a meaningless vote for meaninglessness do you vote for someone you know nothing about, or someone you have know about for decades? And apparently the answer is decades one.

It is exactly the same way that Judges get elected on their weird/cool sounding names in states that have elections.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:34 pm

http://theweek.com/articles/567002/ted- ... presidency

I'm really wondering how much of every GOP candidate's post-primary plan amounts to "turn out the base" >> ??? >> PROFIT!

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:40 am

Kaelik wrote:The actual reason is because these polls don't matter, No one has even heard of Scott Walker, and policy positions haven't been outlined because no one has had any kind of actual event like a debate to address points, and Trump is in the media.

It also doesn't help that Walker is basically incapable of communicating through anything about dog whistles. What little brand he has mostly consists of union busting and being disdainful of education, so it's not like he actually represents a meaningful alternative to what Trump is presenting to the public.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:45 am

Whipstitch wrote:
Kaelik wrote:The actual reason is because these polls don't matter, No one has even heard of Scott Walker, and policy positions haven't been outlined because no one has had any kind of actual event like a debate to address points, and Trump is in the media.
It also doesn't help that Walker is basically incapable of communicating through anything about dog whistles. What little brand he has mostly consists of union busting and being disdainful of education, so it's not like he actually represents a meaningful alternative to what Trump is presenting to the public.

Scott Walker is a stand in for "all candidates who weren't candidates four years ago"

Shatner · Post by **Shatner** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:19 pm

Trump - "Admit It: You People Want To See How Far This Goes, Don’t You?"

It may be The Onion, but that doesn't make it untrue; that just means it's also funny. Anyway, it seems to pretty well sum up some thoughts that I've seen in this thread and elsewhere.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:29 pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the ... ed-create/

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:07 pm

Today in "Doing stupid shit to try and stay relevant," Ted Cruz openly accuses McConnell of lying in the Senate (which, admittedly, might have had more impact if McConnell was actually there). Since this is bound to be Ted's swan song - he either knows he won't have a political career or thinks the GOP leadership is too toothless to do anything about it - I hope to see more of the GOP tearing itself apart in the coming weeks and months.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the ... or-speech/

Meanwhile, Jeb! announces war on Medicare, and gets hassled by little old ladies:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bush-stun ... 00112.html

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:52 pm

http://www.comicbookresources.com/artic ... uperheroes

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:10 am

Ancient History wrote:http://www.comicbookresources.com/artic ... uperheroes

Not sure what's more surprising, that anyone thinks that The New Republic has been"left leaning" during my lifetime OR that the fictional character whose credo is "never compromise, not even in the face of armegeddon" didn't make #1 for a Republican senator in the current congress.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:16 am

Welcome to the modern GOP, where people can say that and mean it.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:26 am

Rorschach was very conservative, politically.

That said, I can admire Rorschach to a degree--he says it all. He had a traumatic event, stopped believing in God, and realized that any morality must derive from people. That his choices CAN influence the world.

It's a grimdark sort of epiphany, but, eh.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:14 am

Rorschach is also just a very compelling character. I think it's pretty stupid to judge someone for having an unpleasant fictional character among their favorites. A lot of interesting fictional characters are unpleasant people.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:02 am

Rorschach is just Batman without the delusions of refusing to kill, or, more directly, Punisher. I can see why a conservative politician would like him, especially since, if I recall correctly, he was a racist and a homophobe, at least. Which is really the only surprising part a current presidential hopeful saying he's among his favourite super heroes (ok, calling him a super hero is perhaps a bit odd, but whatever).

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:10 am

Cuckservative is the best thing ever. Not only is it an incredibly douchey word but it's like a long-overdue helping of karma to the establishment wing from the proto-fascists. That's right, American conservatives; suck that invective you flung out all these years right down.