Zero Buzz on 5E...Is It Dead Out The Gate?

erik · Post by **erik** » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:28 am

Thanks Previn.

Dogbert · Post by **Dogbert** » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:50 am

Mike Mears wrote:Sales numbers "Can't say exactly, but D&D is in a very strong, healthy place."

Where did I hear this line before? Oh yes, White Wolf (R.I.P).

tussock · Post by **tussock** » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:50 am

Mearls wrote:For influences: * 3e's core mechanics, and the concept of unifying things across the board * 4e's approach to a core math foundation, and emphasis on giving every class something cool and unique (might sounds weird to people due to AEDU, but dud classes were a big issue in 3e that 4e really curtailed) * 1e's emphasis on the DM as arbiter and referee, taking priority over the system * 2e's emphasis on roleplaying and storytelling, along with the 2e DMG's presentation of options and variants for the DM

So, what I'd more be looking for would be....

[*] 3e's giving the player all the rules, including the target numbers, monsters too.
[*] 4e's … uh, hmm. Their acknowledgement that 3e casters are a bit too good, but not really anything they did about that.
[*] 1e's respect of player skill with the mechanics as a backstop vs failure.
[*] 2e's … ability to handle large skirmishes with dozens of participants.

But fixed rules with fixed target numbers and standard player-accessible systems for changing and deriving those things: that's 3e's gold. That's really the only thing it does dramatically better than AD&D. It'd be nice if they fixed the progressions and made it run a lot quicker. Gave some better defaults out for NPC building, like some NPC classes which you can just use in play, as a PC, just trivially quick to build.

I like how he says D&D is a magnitude larger game, because he means Pathfinder.

ACOS · Post by **ACOS** » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:16 am

I've gone through the whole Q&A; and all I see is a mountain of corporate doublespeak, with some softball crap mixed in.
Of course, I didn't expect anything else.

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:09 pm

tussock wrote: [*] 2e's … ability to handle large skirmishes with dozens of participants.

In what way was 2E good at that? I don't have a lot of experience with 1E for comparison.

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:39 pm

You generally didn't have a lot of combat options, you weren't using a grid/location was abstracted, there weren't AoOs, HPs were lower, and there really wasn't a system to give levels to monsters - they were just as they appeared on the tin.

So 50 orcs was led by a chieftain or somesuch and maybe a few berzerkers or something, but generally they all had 6 HPs and could only swing a weapon one way, and you chewed through them.

From my own experience, whereas in 3e you'd tend to take monsters at or around your CR, or level up low-grade monsters, or what-have-you and end up with roughly the same number of antagonists as protagonists (or less), in 2e you would tend to have combat encounters be piles of lesser enemies.

Insomniac · Post by **Insomniac** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:42 pm

Did anybody ask Mearls, if in hindsight, it would have been better to hold the entire 3 core books back until October 31st or December 21st and do either a horror-based or winter-based Adventure Path?

It now looks like not releasing the PHB and Monster Manual at the same time kept them from having valuable information that would have helped them release the DMG in a timely fashion. This also kept them from having explicit rules for things that players like, such as mass combat and higher level, higher wealth play in the DMG.

Whereas the entire game could have came out for a holiday release around Halloween, the core books are not out entirely, even with a very generous staggered release.

They also only have the beginning of an AP about the "Tyranny of Dragons" which seems corny and hackneyed and I am not all impressed with the kobold and goblinoid slog the first adventure turned out to be.

Ferret · Post by **Ferret** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:12 pm

Mearls actually went through and answered a bunch of my questions, although largely with "Sorry, nothing to announce"

[–]Forumferret 6 points 2 days ago
Does 5E D&D have any promotional media lined up for it such as movies, games, television shows, etc.? Your exclusivity contract with Atari expires in 2015; will you renew it or do you have another partner in mind?

[–]mikemearls Head of D&D R&D 11 points 1 day ago
Our deal with Atari ended a couple of years ago. Nothing to announce yet, sorry!

[–]Forumferret 3 points 2 days ago
What were the two biggest failings of 4E D&D and how does 5E D&D fix that?

[–]mikemearls Head of D&D R&D 9 points 1 day ago
Biggest issues we see from players - combats run too long and characters are too complex. 5e slimmed down baseline complexity and streamlined combat to overcome those two issues.

[–]Forumferret 5 points 2 days ago
Can you shed any light on what kind of sales numbers would equate to a successful 2015 in the eyes of WotC / Hasbro?

[–]mikemearls Head of D&D R&D 10 points 1 day ago
Can't say exactly, but D&D is in a very strong, healthy place.

[–]Forumferret 4 points 2 days ago
What's the release schedule for 5E D&D looking like? What major books do you plan to release in 2015 and in what month?

[–]mikemearls Head of D&D R&D 4 points 1 day ago
Sorry, can't announce that yet.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:22 pm

I'm pleasantly surprised that he answered those at all. Good on him, I suppose, but those answers still fucking suck. Well, except for the answer to 4E D&D's failings; it's a pathetic but acceptable answer.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:22 am

What's everyone's opinion on clerics and their domains? So far War and Light seem like the winners, for melee and blasting.

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:15 pm

Longes wrote:What's everyone's opinion on clerics and their domains? So far War and Light seem like the winners, for melee and blasting.

What do they do? I don't have the book.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:33 pm

Light:

Domain Spells: Burning Hands, Faerie Fire, Flaming Sphere, Scorching Ray, Fireball, Wall of Fire

Bonus Cantrip: Light

Warding Flare: (1st level) Spend your reaction on giving anyone attacking you a disadvantage on the attack roll Wisdom modifier times per day.

Channel Divinity: (2nd level) Dispell all magical darkness within 30ft. from you. Additionally, every enemy within 30ft. must make Con save or take 2d10+Level radiant damage. Constituion halves that.

Improved Flare: (6th level) Use Warding Flare when someone else within 30ft. is attacked.

Potent Spellcasting: (8th level) Add Wisdom modifier to damage of your cantrips

Corona of light: (17th level) Emit aura of sunlight for 1 minute. Bright at 60ft and dim at 30 ft after. All enemies within 60ft. are at disadvantage on saving throws against fire and radiant damage

War:

Domain Spells: Divine Favor, Magic Weapon, Crusader’s Mantle, Stone Skin and Hold Monster

Bonus Proficiencies: Heavy armor and martial weapon proficiency.

War priest: Wis times per day make an extra attack

Channel Divinity: (2nd level) Add +10 to the attack roll after rolling.

Channel Divinity: (6th level) Give someone else +10 to the attack roll after rolling

Divine Strike: (8th level) +1d8 damage once per turn

Avatar of Battle: (17th level) resistance to nonmagical weapons.

Insomniac · Post by **Insomniac** » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:20 pm

I'd have to say War is stronger because in a bounded accuracy system, giving somebody +10 to attack is like, "Automatically Hit Something Wisdom Mod Per Day." Bonus attacks when Haste is on your spell list is great, Divine Favor and Magic Weapon, Stoneskin and Hold Monster are all strong domain spells. It'd be great even before you get Martial and Heavy proficiency, which just puts it over the top.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:29 pm

No, you can Channel Divinity only 1 time per day. 2 times at level 6, and 3 somewhere later. you can also spend Channel Divinity to Turn Undead.

Insomniac · Post by **Insomniac** » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:35 pm

Oh right, it isn't Wis mod per day. I think it is still stronger than Light, though. It depends on what you want to do, Blaster Cleric or Melee Cleric.

Ferret · Post by **Ferret** » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:27 pm

yeah Potent Spellcasting to add +Wis to all your cantrips is actually pretty slick if you're interested in having any blasting at all. Poach Eldritch Blast or one of the other multiple die roll cantrips and you're adding +15 damage per round.

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:41 am

So Wizards' new contest seems ripe for snark.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:43 am

TiaC wrote:So Wizards' new contest seems ripe for snark.

My entry is

--
"But we're only level 1"
Welcome to the oldschool kid
--

I thought that felt the most grognardy to fit what they intend with 5e

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:50 am

So, I downloaded the official rules, since the exact nature of the prize pack isn't on that page anywhere I could see.

This is the first I've heard of D&D Attack Wing:

This is the best thing to come out of 5e by far. My meatspace group that got disrupted by life likes playing the Star Wars and Star TRek versions of this thing, but neither franchise is something I'm super into, so they never much appealed to me. This, however...

Edit: Also, my entry is
"Tiamat?
We're gonna need more archers"

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:56 am

This may seem like a weird nit to pick, but how does Tiamat's black dragon head eat? It has horns that run parallel to its mouth. For some reason I just can't even look at that without thinking of the tragicomic image of the black dragon head desperately trying to scrape things into its mouth with its tongue.

-Username17

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:15 am

Well, Tiamat's lucky, in that she has four other heads. I can only imagine actual black dragons have to eat things smaller than their heads, and thus probably spend all day hunting and eating, or just gore the meat as they eat, by which I mean-
1- open mouth
2- ram horns into meat
3- close mouth
4- rip chunk and horns free.

Omegonthesane · Post by **Omegonthesane** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:18 am

Prak wrote:Well, Tiamat's lucky, in that she has four other heads. I can only imagine actual black dragons have to eat things smaller than their heads, and thus probably spend all day hunting and eating, or just gore the meat as they eat, by which I mean-
1- open mouth
2- ram horns into meat
3- close mouth
4- rip chunk and horns free.

Maybe they rip it to bits with their claws first?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:25 am

Or that, yeah.

Dragons in D&D have kind of psuedo-hands on their forelegs. Now I'm envisioning a black dragon eating with those psuedo-hands, the way a person might pick at slow-cooked meat.

And now because I've been watching a lot of Walking Dead, and that's how Daryl Dixon eats, I'm now imagining a black dragon Daryl Dixon.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:52 am

FrankTrollman wrote:This may seem like a weird nit to pick, but how does Tiamat's black dragon head eat? It has horns that run parallel to its mouth. For some reason I just can't even look at that without thinking of the tragicomic image of the black dragon head desperately trying to scrape things into its mouth with its tongue.

-Username17

Melts into goo with acid breath, laps it up.

The D&D3e and 4e black dragon have the same horn layout too, did you only notice the horn placement with 5e tiamat?

Who's the first person to do that kind of tangental to mouth horn layout anyways? The first time I remember seeing it was Shining Force on the Genesis, but I figure it's based off of earlier fantasy paintings.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:58 am

3e had the horns higher up.