Election 2016

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:02 am

The accusation is new, the alleged event is months ago. Trump doesn't apparently have any national security advisers at all anymore. But the claim from disaffected Republicans bailing on the Trump campaign now is that back when he did have them he asked repetitive questions that suggest a dangerous lack of understanding of how nuclear brinkmanship is supposed to work. The claim is in essence that the campaign doesn't currently have any national security advisers because they can't find any national security experts that are willing to try to work with him.

Now, you know what I think of the value of Republican allied national security "experts." But if they feel they can't work with him because he's a pig headed lunatic that wants to bomb things... that's actually terrifying. Like seriously, they created George W. Bush, but they are saying that Trump is a bridge too far and dangerous enough that they are willing to consider voting for the lady who promises to raise their taxes just to keep him away from the launch codes.

-Username17

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:15 am

Prak wrote:Ok, I'm watching anti-Hillary propaganda as a show of an open mind.

Can someone give me an unbiased view on the people the Clintons fired when Bill took office, and then accused of criminal wrongdoing as an excuse, and the IRS threat shit?

It was definitely before my time, but I have absolutely no fucking clue what you are talking about. Which honestly, should tell you it's all bullshit, because I know the stories about how they killed people when Bill was governor because I talk with right wing people who were talking about that 5 years ago like it was true, and they apparently couldn't be bothered to remember this scandal.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:24 am

Prak wrote:Ok, I'm watching anti-Hillary propaganda as a show of an open mind.

Can someone give me an unbiased view on the people the Clintons fired when Bill took office, and then accused of criminal wrongdoing as an excuse, and the IRS threat shit?

Whenever a Democrat is in power, conservative groups allege conspiracy whenever they get audited and whenever the IRS denies them an application or even asks for additional paperwork to support a claim. The Heritage Foundation claimed their audits were a campaign of harassment by Bill Clinton, and the Tea Party claimed that the IRS requesting additional paperwork before eventually approving (!) the status of Tea Party aligned groups as fucking non-political non-profit charities constituted harassment. These claims are basically insane, and during those periods the IRS didn't even subject conservative groups to more additional scrutiny than liberal groups. The IRS is still a moderately conservative agency, and always has been. This despite the fact that the agency's greatest supporters have always been the center-left.

The Clinton US Attorneys deal is that shortly after Bill Clinton took office, he fired all 93 US Attorneys and asked for new applications for the positions. This is actually normal behavior and happens most of the time when a new president takes office. The thing which is not normal was the thing where George W Bush went through the US Attorneys he had appointed and fired eight of them for being insufficiently partisan. That shit is nuts.

There is no there there for either Clinton "scandal."

-Username17

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:50 am

I wasn't paying enough attention to hear the video talk about attorneys. I was thinking the travel office thing.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:59 pm

Prak wrote:I wasn't paying enough attention to hear the video talk about attorneys. I was thinking the travel office thing.

Travelgate was an incomprehensible nothing burger at the time. There's so completely nothing there that you need more information from the people who think it was a thing before you can debunk it. It was one of the first times that the Republicans spent millions of dollars investigating the Clintons only to eventually admit that they had absolutely nothing and quietly fold up shop. Obviously, that was not the last.

-Username17

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:33 am

http://trumpgenerator.com/

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:11 pm

Trump suggests shooting Clinton with ambiguous remarks, then his advisors attempt to walk it back

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:23 am

RobbyPants wrote:Trump suggests shooting Clinton with ambiguous remarks, then his advisors attempt to walk it back

The only real ambiguity is whether he was calling for the assassination of an elected president, or calling for the assassination of a nominee to the federal judiciary. I don't know if that's the bottom. I don't know if that's the bottom this week.

Donald Trump says or does something every day that even last year I would have thought would be a scandal severe enough to force someone to leave politics forever. I mean, having staff that are paid operatives of the Russian Federation rewrite the party platform to be more accommodating to Russia invading Europe? Picking a twitter fight with the parents of a dead war hero? Kicking a baby out of a campaign event and being a sarcastic dick about it? Having a federal fraud case brought forward? What the fuck?

Every day, Donald Trump does or says at least one new thing that any sane campaign would fold up its tent over. There is a soundbite the equivalent of "legitimate rape" every fucking day, and yet the trainwreck continues. I mean, Fivethirtyeight now has Georgia and Arizona colored in light blue, but the election doesn't seem to stop. And the news still sometimes feebly asserts that while Donald Trump demonstrates in new ways that he is a grossly unqualified dangerous maniac every day, that Hillary Clinton did send emails or some shit. Both sides!

-Username17

Mechalich · Post by **Mechalich** » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:16 am

Well, at some point you hit diminishing returns of scandal. Trump's remark that "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters," is really only modestly exaggerated. There's a substantial floor to his support - a huge portion of people who will vote for their party's candidate regardless of just about anything. Todd Akin, he of 'legitimate rape' fame, still pulled almost 40% of the vote in his Senate race.

And in some sense Trump's tent is already folded up - his campaign is an empty suit. He apparently spent 0$ on TV ads in the general election period. Jill Stein, polling at near zero for the Green Party, has managed to spend 189,000 (Trump's been outspent by his superpacs to the tune of 8 million). He lacks field offices, a get-out-the-vote organization, and he's dithering over even appearing in the debates at all - meaning he's way behind on the debate prep for an event that takes extensive practice.

Trump will never quit though, he's clearly too much of a narcissist to ever do that (though he very well could skip the debates, which would be an act of surrender of a different but no less obvious kind). The real question, to me, is how many Republican endorsements his campaign will hemorrhage before this is over. Paul Ryan just won his primary, and if he pulls out to a solid lead in his House race, I wouldn't be surprised if he dumped Trump given some suitably extreme outburst (though what that would even be at this point is mind-boggling to contemplate).

angelfromanotherpin · Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:12 am

Mechalich wrote:And in some sense Trump's tent is already folded up - his campaign is an empty suit. He apparently spent 0$ on TV ads in the general election period. Jill Stein, polling at near zero for the Green Party, has managed to spend 189,000 (Trump's been outspent by his superpacs to the tune of 8 million). He lacks field offices, a get-out-the-vote organization, and he's dithering over even appearing in the debates at all - meaning he's way behind on the debate prep for an event that takes extensive practice.

This is the rub - Trump's fundraising hasn't been good, but it's still tens of millions of dollars, and he doesn't appear to be spending it on anything of substance. The only conclusion I can come up with is that he plans to lose and walk away with it. Sure, there are laws about how leftover campaign funds can be used but the rules that constrain all other men mean nothing to McBain, etc.

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:36 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:I mean, Fivethirtyeight now has Georgia and Arizona colored in light blue, but the election doesn't seem to stop.

Yeah, I was just marveling at that map yesterday. Several pink states have gone light blue and several purple have gone blue.

I'm curious what "lessons" the GOP will learn if they get beaten this badly.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:41 pm

RobbyPants wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:I mean, Fivethirtyeight now has Georgia and Arizona colored in light blue, but the election doesn't seem to stop.
Yeah, I was just marveling at that map yesterday. Several pink states have gone light blue and several purple have gone blue.

I'm curious what "lessons" the GOP will learn if they get beaten this badly.

Conservativism cannot fail, it can only be failed. The sectarian fight will only be between those who are angry at political operatives who failed to rally around the true conservative candidate of Ted Cruz and those who are angry at Ted Cruz for not rallying around Trump.

-Username17

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:59 pm

Yeah, if they were able to learn from their mistakes and from the events of reality, we wouldn't be at this point by now. It'll just be "double down on the current course, hope it miraculously works out for the best, and blame everyone else".

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:37 pm

angelfromanotherpin wrote:This is the rub - Trump's fundraising hasn't been good, but it's still tens of millions of dollars, and he doesn't appear to be spending it on anything of substance. The only conclusion I can come up with is that he plans to lose and walk away with it. Sure, there are laws about how leftover campaign funds can be used but the rules that constrain all other men mean nothing to McBain, etc.

Those rules don't actually matter to Trump until he reaches a certain threshold of money, because one of the things you totally can do is pay back loans to the campaign, like the ones that Donald Trump loaned to Donald Trump.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:28 am

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... rump-lies/

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:33 pm

http://fusion.net/story/335661/make-america-brannigan/

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:24 pm

*sigh*

tussock · Post by **tussock** » Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:43 am

Ah, Facebook. The wilful stupidity that powers racism on constant display. As compared to Twitter, which is just strait up racist and sexist harassment.

"Oh, come on, if black people aren't getting photo IDs, we all know why that is!"

Yes, because racism. Duh. But your fuddy there "is not racist" and so cannot hear that.

Victim blaming, basically, it's a thing. Part of the just world theory, which is factually incorrect, and yet tremendous numbers of folks are genuinely surprised to find bad things happening to good people.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:52 am

Fortunately, my friend was the guy who posted the original status, merely alleging that Hillary won the primary through voter fraud, not the racist I was arguing with.

Hiram McDaniels · Post by **Hiram McDaniels** » Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:15 pm

Prak wrote:*sigh*

I just got into it with some supercilious shitlord on reddit about this. He advocates fervently for voter ID laws (poll taxes) and civics exams (literacy tests) in order for a citizen to be "qualified" to participate in the democratic process (so essentially Jim Crow Laws). Conservatives are losing more and more ground among demographics that aren't entitled white dudes, and their answer is apparently: "Well maybe not everyone NEEDS to have a voice".

He also has some choice things to say about women and their place in society. Spoiler: It's at home with the kids.

Just so we're clear on where I stand: I would willingly grit my teeth, bend over and spread my ass for 8(+?) years of God Emperor Trump in the White House (henceforth callled: The Champagne Palace) if it meant that everyone, even the dumbest motherfuckers in the country, got the chance to cast their ballot.

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:59 pm

I think the most appropriate response to

Universal suffrage was the biggest mistake in human history

is probably :

No, you are.

Because any debate with a 21st century American who can say make that claim unironically is destined to be nothing but "am not!" "are too!" "nuh-uh!! You!" exchanges.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:30 pm

I was getting more and more tempted to say something to the effect of "Then don't vote, because you clearly shouldn't have a voice" but I try to stand behind my principles, damnit, and one of those is that every adult living in this country should have a say in how it's run.

I wish there were a way to square that principle with not listening to bigots, but the solutions is to try to fix bigots, not disenfranchise them...

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:51 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/ ... n-trouble/

tussock · Post by **tussock** » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:24 am

So I'm just gunna put this out there. Trump's a narcissist. Or if you prefer, the DSM version.

[*]Grandiosity with expectations of superior treatment from others
[*]Fixated on fantasies of power, success, intelligence, attractiveness, etc.
[*]Self-perception of being unique, superior and associated with high-status people and institutions
[*]Needing constant admiration from others
[*]Sense of entitlement to special treatment and to obedience from others
[*]Exploitative of others to achieve personal gain
[*]Unwilling to empathize with others' feelings, wishes, or needs
[*]Intensely jealous of others and the belief that others are equally jealous of them
[*]Pompous and arrogant demeanor

Like, he's obviously a successful person, in classical western terms, but then on top of that he's a narcissist who has to constantly inflate it and be the centre of attention for it.

So he's actually running for president ...
1: so people will treat him like a King.
2: because he will be the fucking King of the World.
3: as he uniquely deserves to be.
4: It feels really good to be talked about along the way,
5: and people will finally have to listen to him then, dead serious.
6: So what ever it takes from y'all,
7: as it's not like other people have real feelings,
8: those troublemakers are just jealous,
9: and The Donald isn't afraid to say it.

I mean, that's him. He could be close to the worst president ever. He kicked that baby out because it didn't go quiet when he told it to. Babies aren't really upset, and when they aren't listening to the The Donald it's a personal attack on his credibility, and fuck that. Fucking baby, having a go at him.

Where he's going to get other people to break all the rules for him constantly, that that no one cheats him out of his rightful and certain election victory, yes he is. Clinton is just jealous, after all, look how much everyone's talking about The Donald.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:35 am

The American Psychiatric Society has invoked the Goldwater Rule on Trump. That's the rule that says psychiatric doctors are not allowed to publicly diagnose presidential candidates. It's named after former presidential candidate Barry Goldwater, who was such a frothing lunatic that newspapers interviewed psychiatrists about him and reported that a majority of them thought he was genuinely certifiable. That got branded as a violation of professional conduct, because of course you aren't allowed to diagnose people who aren't your patients nor are you allowed to discuss peoples' diagnoses with strangers or (especially) the media without their consent.

Barry Goldwater wrote:I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle.

For some reason, actual psychiatric doctors thought this man was dangerously insane.

Anyway, yes, Donald Trump says or does one or more things every day that prove he is dangerously unqualified to hold any executive power at all, let alone be president of the United States. Every day he has a new outrage that would have been the scandal that sunk any candidate who was even trying to run a normal campaign. Advocating armed goons to occupy polling places and intimidate black voters in Pennsylvania is just the latest one I've heard about. Is it more outrageous than any of the other stupid things he did this week? I dunno. Honestly, we all knew he was insane when he called Mexicans rapists, and that was the first day of his campaign.

What was the craziest thing he did? Was it the time he said we should be using nuclear weapons against criminals? Was it the time he said we should be deporting American citizens to nationless military bases to hold secret trials away from legal oversight? Was it the time he said we should unilaterally declare American bonds to be worthless and take the "full faith and credit of the United States" out to the bonfire? I don't know! All of those things would individually destroy not only the American way of life, but the entire international order that the United States has carefully cultivated since the end of World War 2.

-Username17