Not quite true. If you grab the right guys with Dead Thrall (Master Necromancers, etc) or use Summon Dremora Lord (they kill everyone) you can do pretty well as a summoner. However, if they bad guys think to run past your summons and you're playing the squishy mage, well...hope you like running backwards down a hallway spamming Wall of X.sake wrote: And really, summoning's best trick is just conjuring up a bow and limitless free super arrows anyway.
Pathfinder Is Still Bad
Moderator: Moderators
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CapnTthePirateG
- Duke
- Posts: 1545
- Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am
OgreBattle wrote:"And thus the denizens learned that hating Shadzar was the only thing they had in common, and with him gone they turned their venom upon each other"
-Sarpadian Empires, vol. I
Sure, that's the -only- thing the grunts in Force Unleashed have going for them--if they shoot at you enough, they might get a few shots to connect.RadiantPhoenix wrote:Aren't characters in Star Wars supposed to have ranged weapons?Maxus wrote:Edit: So I suppose the point is, the biggest source of a caster-combat disparity is when the combat folks have no means of countering or fighting back against the caster's powers. If they can't do something to match or reduce the range, that's a big disadvantage. If they can't resist or ignore any of the attacks, that's another big drawback.
But your axe-wielding barbarian has a problem with someone who stays ninety or more feet away. Or flies.
Last edited by Maxus on Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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RadiantPhoenix
- Prince
- Posts: 2668
- Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:33 pm
- Location: Trudging up the Hill
Oh, bite me, smartass. The point was not the barbarian using the axe, or any other weapon. He can use a bow or sword or spear or whatever you'd like, but it won't make much of a difference. He can be a fighter or a knight or a drunken street-fighter, if you want.RadiantPhoenix wrote:I don't know about your barbarian, but my barbarian has proficiency with all martial weapons, not just axes.Maxus wrote:But your axe-wielding barbarian has a problem with someone who stays ninety or more feet away. Or flies.
It's not such a problem in video games--especially stuff like the old Final Fantasies where everyone had a battle line-up--but a lot of tabletop games give casters abilities and powers that reach further, go bigger, and can't be countered or really even resisted by someone who isn't also a caster.
So a flying caster can cause a problem for a melee fighter. Even one who just stays back and casts longer-ranged stuff can be hell for an archer.
That's at the core of the caster-melee disparity. The casters gets to do things the non-casters have no answer for or recourse against. At the same time, giving the melee folks things which can counter it...can end up looking anime. Or something like Roland or Cu Chulainn. And the general tabletop-playing population isn't comfortable with that.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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RadiantPhoenix
- Prince
- Posts: 2668
- Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:33 pm
- Location: Trudging up the Hill
Very, very, very big problems. Like the range penalties. And the reload times on the crossbow. And the burden of success being on said archer/crossbowman (or, I'll be fair. Some kind of composite greatbow or something. That'd be better.) And that any caster high-enough level to do this can also help some of the countermeasures (blur, invisibility, etc).RadiantPhoenix wrote:Heavy Crossbow maximum range = 1200 ft
20th level spellcaster's long range spell maximum range = 1200 ft
Now, there are some problems with this, but ranged weapons can deal with little things like flight, at least somewhat.
Being good with a bow just isn't enough to counter a kiting caster. There's still things non-casters can't answer against--or, at least, can't answer against without being deeply specialized in countering that trick. I think it's -possible- to grapple your way out of Black Tentacles, but I've never sat down to work out what it'd take it reliably beat the spell.
Of course, by the time you can beat Black Tentacles, you're powerbombing giants and might as well make a magical mask that lets you always be surrounded by the roars of a crowd and projects your voice thunderously, because you're now a fantasy pro wrestler.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
My solutions as a Pathfinder archer included limited use teleportation/freedom of movement items, seeking/ghost touch/distance bow, several dispel arrows, more Spot/Listen/Perception than common sense (could easily see invisible spellcasters from 300' away), and enough Stealth ranks to make the use of Long range spells laughable due to the equal inability to see me; all this by level 13 or sooner. Except for a couple items, he was all Pathfinder core/setting.Maxus wrote:Very, very, very big problems. Like the range penalties. And the reload times on the crossbow. And the burden of success being on said archer/crossbowman (or, I'll be fair. Some kind of composite greatbow or something. That'd be better.) And that any caster high-enough level to do this can also help some of the countermeasures (blur, invisibility, etc).
Being good with a bow just isn't enough to counter a kiting caster. There's still things non-casters can't answer against--or, at least, can't answer against without being deeply specialized in countering that trick. I think it's -possible- to grapple your way out of Black Tentacles, but I've never sat down to work out what it'd take it reliably beat the spell.
It *can* be done, but it requires rather dedicated work to create, and I think a couple tactics might still be unbeatable by my archer. The important goals include seeking, Spot/Listen, and piles of damage/accuracy/attacks.
You know what though? Losing in a duel doesn't mean my archer is a failure. So long as he matches the Same Game Test, which isn't overwhelmingly wizards with the right set of spells to crush me, then the end result is fine. The difficulty to reach it, and the trap options that divert away from being worth anything, that's something that needs to be addressed.
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
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Username17
- Serious Badass
- Posts: 29894
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Yes.You know what though? Losing in a duel doesn't mean my archer is a failure. So long as he matches the Same Game Test, which isn't overwhelmingly wizards with the right set of spells to crush me, then the end result is fine.
It's important to remember that a character who could instantly no-save take-down one enemy per day would win every duel against every single other character type, but would still be very weak unless they had something else to do against the 2nd, 3rd, and 7th enemy encountered in a normal mook fight. Character duels aren't simply misleading, they are deeply and fundamentally misleading on many levels.
The divide between casters and fighters is not so much that casters can beat up fighters, although of course they can. The issue is that the Fighter can't solve level appropriate problems. Fuck, the Pathfailure Fighter doesn't have Diplomacy, Stealth, or Perception on his fucking skill list - he can't even solve level appropriate totally mundane problems. All he can do is contribute to combat encounters, the fact that he can't even do that well by the time basic longsword damage provokes a bemused shrug from enemies is just diarrhea icing on the shit salad.
-Username17
A +3 bonus makes the difference between success and failure in your campaign? Jesus, Skill Focus must be incredibly popular then.FrankTrollman wrote: Fuck, the Pathfailure Fighter doesn't have Diplomacy, Stealth, or Perception on his fucking skill list - he can't even solve level appropriate totally mundane problems.
That was the Pathfinder Campaign Setting fighter feat (war school), it gave my fighter proficiency in those skills (except Stealth) and increased his skill points per level by 2; and I only put enough ranks of Stealth to make it a viable option only against people trying to do the sniping thing to me, where distance makes an awesome difference.
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
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Swordslinger
- Knight-Baron
- Posts: 953
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:30 pm
You realize his charisma and wisdom will likely be total ass too, so it's a lot more than a +3 bonus.hogarth wrote:A +3 bonus makes the difference between success and failure in your campaign? Jesus, Skill Focus must be incredibly popular then.FrankTrollman wrote: Fuck, the Pathfailure Fighter doesn't have Diplomacy, Stealth, or Perception on his fucking skill list - he can't even solve level appropriate totally mundane problems.
Do you know what's annoying about Charisma? At least a couple DMs I've seen treat the actual Charisma stat as more important than the skills or final modifiers, by a bunch. Mediocre Charisma, but max ranks and possibly skill focus in stuff like Diplomacy, treated as an ugly/antisocial reject. High Charisma, but never touched Diplomacy/Bluff, all of the social conversation topics open up in RP and they're near-universally treated as the pretty one people like.
In my archer's case, I actually had an acceptable Charisma to start (15, I believe) and did take Skill Focus (Diplomacy) for the RP; but I was snubbed in the social mini-game and Tea Party in favour of others because I was grossly OP (passed the SGT at 50%).
And so I can stop describing the final result, here's my 17th level archer, from the end of the campaign. We had just found the setting's equivalent of El Dorado, so my wealth is a bit higher than normal. Essentially remove all of the custom looking items, and you'd have a close idea as to what I was like before I broke the wealth barrier (mainly make the rings sane, remove the Third Eye, reduce the shield/armor/weapon by +4 as I relied on the Theurge in the party to fart and cast Greater Magic Weapon/Vestment each morning)
In my archer's case, I actually had an acceptable Charisma to start (15, I believe) and did take Skill Focus (Diplomacy) for the RP; but I was snubbed in the social mini-game and Tea Party in favour of others because I was grossly OP (passed the SGT at 50%).
And so I can stop describing the final result, here's my 17th level archer, from the end of the campaign. We had just found the setting's equivalent of El Dorado, so my wealth is a bit higher than normal. Essentially remove all of the custom looking items, and you'd have a close idea as to what I was like before I broke the wealth barrier (mainly make the rings sane, remove the Third Eye, reduce the shield/armor/weapon by +4 as I relied on the Theurge in the party to fart and cast Greater Magic Weapon/Vestment each morning)
Duke Erasmos Eurytus, Adventurer Extraordinare
Basic Design: 17th level Taldan Fighter of Druma (using PHB 2)
Philosophy: Functional atheist, respecter of Zyphus (Grim Harvestman), on the basis that even the supposedly planned out deaths are actually accidental for the victim in the long run. Kind of a nihilist in that the 'will of the gods' is ultimately too haphazard to have meaning amongst themselves; thus occasionally lets a person live on a coin toss to symbolize the futility. Otherwise a businessman and professional adventurer, having kept only the family retainer (ie, butler) from his family's caravan business.
Stats (+2 Str racial, +1 lvl in Dex/Int, +2 lvl in Str, +5 Str/Cha inherent, +4 Dex/Con/Wis/Int): Str 30, Dex 26, Con 24, Int 22, Wis 24, Cha 21
Hit Points (1d6+11): 247
Skills (12): Acrobatics* 16 (+24), Climb 13 (+26), Diplomacy 16 (+27), Intimidate 16 (+27), Knowledge (nobility) 15 (+24), Perception 16 (+47), Ride 3 (+14), Sense Motive 16 (+26), Survival 16 (+26), Stealth* 16 (+24); Appraise* 16 (+22), Linguistics* 16 (+22), Use Magic Device* 16 (+24)
Languages: Common/Taldane, Thassilonian, Kelish, Osirani, Skald, Tien, Vudrani; Celestial Abyssal, Infernal, Draconic, Terran, Aquan, Ignan, Auran; Undercommon, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Goblin, Orc
Abilities: +3 Will vs Fear, +4 max Dex/ACP, +4 atk/dmg bows, +2 atk/dmg close, +3 atk/dmg hammers
Feats: Alertness, Extra Skill Points, Deadly Aim, Dodge, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Improved Initiative, Improved Precise Shot, Iron Will, Leadership, Manyshot, Pinpoint Targetting, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Profits of Kalistrade, Ranged Weapon Mastery, Rapid Shot, Skill Focus (Perception), Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, (Improved Buckler Defense in exchange for Pinpoint Targeting)
Bonus Feats: Natural Leader, Improved Cohort, Extra Followers, Inspirational Leadership, War Commune 1/wk
Followers: 600/60/30/16/8/4/2
Initiative: +12
Full Bow Capability: +38/+38/+33/+28/+23 (1d8+26/x3, 130' increment)
* Extra arrow on first attack, +1 atk/dmg if <30', option for -5 atk & +10 dmg
* Pinpoint: +35 (1d8+36/x3, vs Touch)
* Damage = Strength +10, Gtr Specialization +4, Wpn Mastery +2, Magic +5, Class +4, Bracers +1
* Attack = Base +17, Dex +8, Gtr Focus +2, Wpn Mastery +2, Class +4, Magic +5, Bracers +2, Rapid -2
Emergency Spikes: +35/+30/+25 (1d6+18/x2)
Current Combat Stats
* Bow +36/+36/+31/+26/+21 (1d8+25)
* Energy Resist 120; Contingency
CMB: +27
Final CMD: 52
Final AC: 49 (+13 armor, +6 shield, +2 dodge, +5 natural, +8 dex, +5 deflect), Touch 23, +5 vs incorporeal, +5 vs ranged, 50% crit immunity
Final Saves: +27/+23/+22 (+3 vs Fear, +3 vs mind-affecting, immune to divination/mental control vs evil, evasion)
Basic Gear (Expected 630k, 266k/month, Actual 1.715M, Worn 1035.29k)
Ebedwar [Art of War for giants, +5 inherent Cha]
Third Eye of Mindblank & +15 Perception = 153.75
Ring of Freedom of Movement, Featherfall, Arming, Invisibility, Evasion, Counterspell (Gtr Dispel) = 124.3k
Sihedron+ Ring = 153.75k
* +5 natural, +5 deflection, +5 resist, sustenance, endure elements, glamour
+1 Aptitude Adamantine Vanishing Armor Spikes = 13.38k
* 1/day, on hitting, swift action to dimension door 60'
+5 Hideaway Seeking Ghost-Touch Longbow of Variable Pull = 101.4k
* Crystal of Return = 1k
+5 Exalted Field-Plate of Nimbleness = 82.65k
Lesser Crystal of Screening = 1k
Restful Crystal = .5k
Belt of Magnificence +6 = 200k
Cloak of Divine Saves +5 = 50k
Boots of Stepping = 60.7k
* 3/day greater teleport
* 3/day 60' teleport
* 2/day swift 10' teleport w/LoS & LoE
* Stand from prone w/swift action, no AoO
Bracers of Archery, Greater = 25k
+5 Buckler of Moderate Fortification = 64.16k
Lesser Crystal of Arrow Deflection = 2.5k
Quiver of Holding (Max capacity, 400 arrows) = 1.2k
16 quivers of arrows
Dancing Lights Torch = .9k
Wand of Vigor x4 = 170 charges
Wand of Death Ward = 21k
Wand of Protection from Energy = 22.5k
Crystal Ball of True Seeing = 80k
Permanent See Invisibility = 5k (19th)
Permanent Arcane Sight = 7.5k (19th)
Permanent Telepathic Bond
Money: 53.15k
Encumbrance = 76lbs
Notes: Profits of Kalistrade = able to buy anything within a day, current & bought gear able to be sold back for 100% market value (found gear still sold at 50%)
Basic Design: 17th level Taldan Fighter of Druma (using PHB 2)
Philosophy: Functional atheist, respecter of Zyphus (Grim Harvestman), on the basis that even the supposedly planned out deaths are actually accidental for the victim in the long run. Kind of a nihilist in that the 'will of the gods' is ultimately too haphazard to have meaning amongst themselves; thus occasionally lets a person live on a coin toss to symbolize the futility. Otherwise a businessman and professional adventurer, having kept only the family retainer (ie, butler) from his family's caravan business.
Stats (+2 Str racial, +1 lvl in Dex/Int, +2 lvl in Str, +5 Str/Cha inherent, +4 Dex/Con/Wis/Int): Str 30, Dex 26, Con 24, Int 22, Wis 24, Cha 21
Hit Points (1d6+11): 247
Skills (12): Acrobatics* 16 (+24), Climb 13 (+26), Diplomacy 16 (+27), Intimidate 16 (+27), Knowledge (nobility) 15 (+24), Perception 16 (+47), Ride 3 (+14), Sense Motive 16 (+26), Survival 16 (+26), Stealth* 16 (+24); Appraise* 16 (+22), Linguistics* 16 (+22), Use Magic Device* 16 (+24)
Languages: Common/Taldane, Thassilonian, Kelish, Osirani, Skald, Tien, Vudrani; Celestial Abyssal, Infernal, Draconic, Terran, Aquan, Ignan, Auran; Undercommon, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Goblin, Orc
Abilities: +3 Will vs Fear, +4 max Dex/ACP, +4 atk/dmg bows, +2 atk/dmg close, +3 atk/dmg hammers
Feats: Alertness, Extra Skill Points, Deadly Aim, Dodge, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Improved Initiative, Improved Precise Shot, Iron Will, Leadership, Manyshot, Pinpoint Targetting, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Profits of Kalistrade, Ranged Weapon Mastery, Rapid Shot, Skill Focus (Perception), Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, (Improved Buckler Defense in exchange for Pinpoint Targeting)
Bonus Feats: Natural Leader, Improved Cohort, Extra Followers, Inspirational Leadership, War Commune 1/wk
Followers: 600/60/30/16/8/4/2
Initiative: +12
Full Bow Capability: +38/+38/+33/+28/+23 (1d8+26/x3, 130' increment)
* Extra arrow on first attack, +1 atk/dmg if <30', option for -5 atk & +10 dmg
* Pinpoint: +35 (1d8+36/x3, vs Touch)
* Damage = Strength +10, Gtr Specialization +4, Wpn Mastery +2, Magic +5, Class +4, Bracers +1
* Attack = Base +17, Dex +8, Gtr Focus +2, Wpn Mastery +2, Class +4, Magic +5, Bracers +2, Rapid -2
Emergency Spikes: +35/+30/+25 (1d6+18/x2)
Current Combat Stats
* Bow +36/+36/+31/+26/+21 (1d8+25)
* Energy Resist 120; Contingency
CMB: +27
Final CMD: 52
Final AC: 49 (+13 armor, +6 shield, +2 dodge, +5 natural, +8 dex, +5 deflect), Touch 23, +5 vs incorporeal, +5 vs ranged, 50% crit immunity
Final Saves: +27/+23/+22 (+3 vs Fear, +3 vs mind-affecting, immune to divination/mental control vs evil, evasion)
Basic Gear (Expected 630k, 266k/month, Actual 1.715M, Worn 1035.29k)
Ebedwar [Art of War for giants, +5 inherent Cha]
Third Eye of Mindblank & +15 Perception = 153.75
Ring of Freedom of Movement, Featherfall, Arming, Invisibility, Evasion, Counterspell (Gtr Dispel) = 124.3k
Sihedron+ Ring = 153.75k
* +5 natural, +5 deflection, +5 resist, sustenance, endure elements, glamour
+1 Aptitude Adamantine Vanishing Armor Spikes = 13.38k
* 1/day, on hitting, swift action to dimension door 60'
+5 Hideaway Seeking Ghost-Touch Longbow of Variable Pull = 101.4k
* Crystal of Return = 1k
+5 Exalted Field-Plate of Nimbleness = 82.65k
Lesser Crystal of Screening = 1k
Restful Crystal = .5k
Belt of Magnificence +6 = 200k
Cloak of Divine Saves +5 = 50k
Boots of Stepping = 60.7k
* 3/day greater teleport
* 3/day 60' teleport
* 2/day swift 10' teleport w/LoS & LoE
* Stand from prone w/swift action, no AoO
Bracers of Archery, Greater = 25k
+5 Buckler of Moderate Fortification = 64.16k
Lesser Crystal of Arrow Deflection = 2.5k
Quiver of Holding (Max capacity, 400 arrows) = 1.2k
16 quivers of arrows
Dancing Lights Torch = .9k
Wand of Vigor x4 = 170 charges
Wand of Death Ward = 21k
Wand of Protection from Energy = 22.5k
Crystal Ball of True Seeing = 80k
Permanent See Invisibility = 5k (19th)
Permanent Arcane Sight = 7.5k (19th)
Permanent Telepathic Bond
Money: 53.15k
Encumbrance = 76lbs
Notes: Profits of Kalistrade = able to buy anything within a day, current & bought gear able to be sold back for 100% market value (found gear still sold at 50%)
Last edited by virgil on Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
Yeah, and the spell which make the elder one appear is just here for the lulz. "oh, you have gained the penalty bonus, lol".FrankTrollman wrote:No. It's that Yig is considered very difficult because he shows up very fast and beating him in combat is only considered a winning draw.
-Username17
My point stand: trying to justify a retarded mechanic like the Ancien One fight in Akham horror is as retarded as trying to justify retarded mechanics in Pathfinder. Especially when some mechanics in Harkam Horror are totally dedicated to this boring fight. Oneself can enjoy the game without saying that poor mechanics are good because you they aren't intended to be used.
Special rant: there's at least one designer of Harkam Horror who write that he consider the apparition of the Ancien One as a loss. This designer is as retarded as SKR, since the mechanics of his game doesn't sustain his standpoint.
Last edited by GâtFromKI on Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
I have to say, I'm liking some of the Feats in PF:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-f ... t-of-sight
Now, given it's totally compatible with 3.5, a 3.5Rogue could theoretically take that as a Bonus Feat - and if you're going into high levels as a Rogue, why not take shit like Gift of Sight, Disjunctive Eye and Gape of the Serpent?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-f ... t-of-sight
Now, given it's totally compatible with 3.5, a 3.5Rogue could theoretically take that as a Bonus Feat - and if you're going into high levels as a Rogue, why not take shit like Gift of Sight, Disjunctive Eye and Gape of the Serpent?
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
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CapnTthePirateG
- Duke
- Posts: 1545
- Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am
Let's not open that can of worms, otherwise we get to see revenge of the Twinned (pathfinder) Persisted save or dies. 4 saves till death = win.
OgreBattle wrote:"And thus the denizens learned that hating Shadzar was the only thing they had in common, and with him gone they turned their venom upon each other"
-Sarpadian Empires, vol. I
Actually only 10th level base classes? that makes me wonder why Pathfinder doesn't already just do that actually. Most people who play 3rd edition, and especially advocating as this being some kind of "super awesome fantasy game for Fire & Ice/Conan stories", only play the low levels, so hardly multiclass anyway. This way, could potentially limit the potential of the spellcasters, give better non-caster abilities earlier, and control more powerful high level effects through their prestige classes. Plus everything being more lower level, could bring it more in line with their supposed "fantasy sources".James Jacobs, on another occasion wrote:...but I just wanted to point out that Paizo is not against multiclassing or prestige classes. One of the main design goals of Pathfinder was to make the base classes viable from 1st to 20th level, but that doesn't also mean we hate prestige classes. It just means we want the base classes to be worth it from start to end... otherwise we'd just do 10 level base classes and let folks multiclass or prestige class once they go beyond 10th level.
Even if you discard the bit of limiting spells, seems like it'd be a pretty good idea for Pathfinder, could really help sell the idea their world is rather low level.
Oh, and I was quite at awe in regards to that Monster feat "Gift of Sight" Pathfinder had created...
Last edited by Aryxbez on Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
What I find wrong w/ 4th edition: "I want to stab dragons the size of a small keep with skin like supple adamantine and command over time and space to death with my longsword in head to head combat, but I want to be totally within realistic capabilities of a real human being!" --Caedrus mocking 4rries
"the thing about being Mister Cavern [DM], you don't blame players for how they play. That's like blaming the weather. Weather just is. You adapt to it. -Ancient History
"the thing about being Mister Cavern [DM], you don't blame players for how they play. That's like blaming the weather. Weather just is. You adapt to it. -Ancient History
That one isn't terrible for a Troll - they regenerate it, and it's not the kind of thing you cast in combat. Now the goblin feats are terrible. All these little things of marginal value that could honestly be rolled into one single "I'm the best goblin at being a goblin ever" and still be considered "kind of okay, I guess".
And that's without mentioning the weakened/divided Combat feats and the "when you punch someone in the face, you get to use your Bloodline Power/Domain Power that Sickens a foe for one round! What an awesome use of a Feat!"
And that's without mentioning the weakened/divided Combat feats and the "when you punch someone in the face, you get to use your Bloodline Power/Domain Power that Sickens a foe for one round! What an awesome use of a Feat!"
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
Keep in mind that this is a feat written for 3.5 not for the pathfinder RPG.Koumei wrote:I have to say, I'm liking some of the Feats in PF:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-f ... t-of-sight
Now, given it's totally compatible with 3.5, a 3.5Rogue could theoretically take that as a Bonus Feat - and if you're going into high levels as a Rogue, why not take shit like Gift of Sight, Disjunctive Eye and Gape of the Serpent?
There was the product line pathfinder before they started on the Pathfinder RPG, if you check the date on this one you'll see 2008 for example.
Gary Gygax wrote:The player’s path to role-playing mastery begins with a thorough understanding of the rules of the game
Bigode wrote:I wouldn't normally make that blanket of a suggestion, but you seem to deserve it: scroll through the entire forum, read anything that looks interesting in term of design experience, then come back.
Are you trying to say that they've gotten better at writing feats?ishy wrote:Keep in mind that this is a feat written for 3.5 not for the pathfinder RPG.Koumei wrote:I have to say, I'm liking some of the Feats in PF:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-f ... t-of-sight
Now, given it's totally compatible with 3.5, a 3.5Rogue could theoretically take that as a Bonus Feat - and if you're going into high levels as a Rogue, why not take shit like Gift of Sight, Disjunctive Eye and Gape of the Serpent?
There was the product line pathfinder before they started on the Pathfinder RPG, if you check the date on this one you'll see 2008 for example.
I think we can disprove that. Pretty easily, in fact.
No, I was just trying to make it clear that the feat in question was written for 3.5 not for the PF RPG.
Gary Gygax wrote:The player’s path to role-playing mastery begins with a thorough understanding of the rules of the game
Bigode wrote:I wouldn't normally make that blanket of a suggestion, but you seem to deserve it: scroll through the entire forum, read anything that looks interesting in term of design experience, then come back.
It wasn't "awe" sense of thinking it awesome, but rather how unexpectedly gruesome that was, never been a fan of gore, especially in the abdomen (shivers).
I suppose the only feats worth anything they made were apparently "more" ranged feats?
I suppose the only feats worth anything they made were apparently "more" ranged feats?
Last edited by Aryxbez on Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
What I find wrong w/ 4th edition: "I want to stab dragons the size of a small keep with skin like supple adamantine and command over time and space to death with my longsword in head to head combat, but I want to be totally within realistic capabilities of a real human being!" --Caedrus mocking 4rries
"the thing about being Mister Cavern [DM], you don't blame players for how they play. That's like blaming the weather. Weather just is. You adapt to it. -Ancient History
"the thing about being Mister Cavern [DM], you don't blame players for how they play. That's like blaming the weather. Weather just is. You adapt to it. -Ancient History
Arguably they got worse over time.ishy wrote:No, I was just trying to make it clear that the feat in question was written for 3.5 not for the PF RPG.
Aryxbez: I'll give you some examples from their SRD:
So you decide to play a Goblin because... okay you'll have to invent a reason for that, I don't fucking know. Maybe you like their Warcraft voices or something? And you then have a stroke and think "Oh, I should take [Goblin] feats!"
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-fe ... bat-goblin
For a bite attack when people grapple you (bonus: note the confusion about AoO)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-f ... ger-goblin
(Because you're a Goblin BARD! Awesome!)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-f ... urn-goblin
(Awkward wording - it should be "Alchemical or Non-magical". At any rate, kind of useful I guess, shame the Flasked Avenger requires the special Alchemist class.)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-f ... ion-goblin
(How fucking useless?)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-f ... ter-goblin
(The sad thing is that the bonuses are considered so strong they have to be against such limited categories. Handy for when they want to kill their own worg mounts I guess, or when the hobo-goblin's lovely mount turns out to be Mr. Ed the Nightmare.)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-fe ... bat-goblin
(Laaaame)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-f ... ury-goblin
(Because Goblins are so often Barbarians!)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-fe ... bat-goblin
(Kind of handy for goblins actually - hey, it's the Jester ability!)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-f ... dal-goblin
(Maybe useful?)
And finally http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-fe ... bat-goblin
(You take a penalty to give your mount a bonus... hope it's not a horse or dog!)
Then there's this, on the other hand:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-f ... xious-bite
Cha-ching! Green/Black Dragon Disciples get a freebie!
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.