Skyrim: thoughts?

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:45 pm

No, I mean the Falmer, the Thalmor are assholes, but so is the empire and eventually one empire full of assholes will topple another empire full of assholes, or maybe it won't maybe Cyrodill will go through a restructuring and kill the fuck out of the Aldmiri Dominion like it did back when it was founded.

No, see, there are several reasons to hate the Falmer, they're a lot harder than the Thalmor, they're bastards, they live next to things that are a lot harder than the Thamor, and they're also more interesting than the Thalmor, and yet you "get" to spend most of the game interacting with the bullshit political stuff that ultimately doesn't matter instead of the deeply intersting history of the Falmer. I mean, come on, they're an ancient race that lives in the cities of the most magically powerful and technologically advanced race in history if the Falmer were the villans just imagine all the shit they could get up to.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:54 pm

I do know I've made tons of iron arrows.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:01 pm

Iron arrow? why? XP for crafting is based on the price of the thing you're crafting.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:03 pm

darkmaster wrote:Iron arrow? why? XP for crafting is based on the price of the thing you're crafting.

No it isn't. You get the same XP for every item you create regardless of price. So you grind leather boots and daggers and nothing else until you max, then you make Dragon armor.

And you craft whatever, and you enchant some random easy to use petty shit over and over.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:08 pm

No, you don't. The formula for xp gain for smithing is XP = 3 × item value^0.65 + 25. And enchanting is similar. So you get the most xp value for smithing jewelry and also the most xp value for enchanting by enchanting said jewelry with the most expensive enchantments you can.

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:08 pm

Kaelik wrote:
darkmaster wrote:Iron arrow? why? XP for crafting is based on the price of the thing you're crafting.
No it isn't. You get the same XP for every item you create regardless of price. So you grind leather boots and daggers and nothing else until you max, then you make Dragon armor.

And you craft whatever, and you enchant some random easy to use petty shit over and over.

They patched it so that crafting XP is dependent on the value of the item back in March 2012.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:19 pm

Then they must have forgotten to patch it for the arrows. Or maybe it's that they're made in batches of 24. Whatever the reason, arrows are good crafting XP even as iron arrows, and it only goes up as the materials improve.

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:37 pm

darkmaster wrote:I have the console version, do not feel like shelling out for the same game twice.

I know that you can mod the Playstation 3 version, I'm not sure about the xbox 360.

Basically, expansions like Dawnguard use the same file format as the PC mods, do. So you just have load your mods onto the hard drive and add them to the INI file.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:50 pm

darkmaster wrote:No, you don't. The formula for xp gain for smithing is XP = 3 × item value^0.65 + 25. And enchanting is similar. So you get the most xp value for smithing jewelry and also the most xp value for enchanting by enchanting said jewelry with the most expensive enchantments you can.

Except that he is on the console version, so there is no reason to expect him to have downloaded a bunch of patches for no reason.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:52 pm

Except that on the console version the game patches itself automatically.

Nachtigallerator · Post by **Nachtigallerator** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:56 pm

I wasn't aware people played Skyrim as anything different than "Mod Managing Tycoon 2010". Moddability is probably the only real selling point of ES games since Oblivion.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:02 pm

darkmaster wrote:Except that on the console version the game patches itself automatically.

Unless you know, it doesn't. Because not everyone is you and has their console plugged into the internet for single player games.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:09 pm

You know Kaelik, I was going to call you an idiot and outline why you're an idiot for assuming that when there's a much more reasonable assumption to make, but that really sound like too much effort to spend on arguing with you. So I'll just say that would be super inconvenient in this day and age and there is no good reason not to just have your console hook up to the internet automatically unless you can't.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:16 pm

darkmaster wrote:You know Kaelik, I was going to call you an idiot and outline why you're an idiot for assuming that when there's a much more reasonable assumption to make, but that really sound like too much effort to spend on arguing with you. So I'll just say that would be super inconvenient in this day and age and there is no good reason not to just have your console hook up to the internet automatically unless you can't.

I can hook up my console if I just unplug my computer. Unsurprisingly, I never have it hooked up. And your premise that everyone has wifi internet that totally connects to their console all the time is the exact thing that was completely stupid and bullshit about the XBoxOne presentation that literally got some asshole fired for saying it.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:19 pm

No, it isn't you dumb asshole. That a person would just do the convenient thing and have their console automatically connect when it's available they'll do so isn't fucking revolutionary. What got people up in arms was the idea of always having to have your console connected to the internet for it to work because that is horse shit.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:48 pm

darkmaster wrote:No, it isn't you dumb asshole. That a person would just do the convenient thing and have their console automatically connect when it's available they'll do so isn't fucking revolutionary. What got people up in arms was the idea of always having to have your console connected to the internet for it to work because that is horse shit.

The console can only automatically connect if it is literally connected by cable or you have wifi.

So your claim that they will set it up to connect when convenient is just the claim that everyone in the universe who owns and Xbox and plays Skyrim has wifi. Which is pretty much not at all distinguishable from the position that everyone can have it always connected if they want.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:58 pm

Almost everyone in the first world has wifi, period, sometimes that wifi is terrible doesn't work very well, sometimes events will conspire an you will be without it for a while, and in rural areas a lot of times people won't have wifi but rural areas have little wifi because they're much more sparsely populated and companies don't see enough profit in it. When talking about everyone it is, of course, really stupid to assume all people have wifi, when talking to a specific person it is far more reasonable until corrected by that person to assume they have wifi, especially when talking to them over the internet.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:04 pm

darkmaster wrote:Almost everyone in the first world has wifi, period, sometimes that wifi is terrible doesn't work very well, sometimes events will conspire an you will be without it for a while, and in rural areas a lot of times people won't have wifi but rural areas have little wifi because they're much more sparsely populated and companies don't see enough profit in it. When talking about everyone it is, of course, really stupid to assume all people have wifi, when talking to a specific person it is far more reasonable until corrected by that person to assume they have wifi, especially when talking to them over the internet.

61% of American households had wifi as of 2012. What the actual fuck are you talking about?

-Username17

Pixels · Post by **Pixels** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:18 pm

I'm surprised that the wifi rate is as high as 61%. According to the US Census, only 71% of American households have home internet access at all.

MGuy · Post by **MGuy** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:21 pm

You can also turn the wifi 'off' if you don't want the game to download shit. I know I had to turn the wifi off to play Mass Effect 3 because EA wouldn't stop fucking it.

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:22 pm

Most new router-switches these days have wifi built into them, so it's not too shocking that the wifi rate and the internet rate are keeping close pace with each other.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:22 pm

Pixels wrote:I'm surprised that the wifi rate is as high as 61%. According to the US Census, only 71% of American households have home internet access at all.

But among the population of people who own consoles, that number is likely to be much higher.

Aryxbez · Post by **Aryxbez** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:46 pm

I was excited to see this thread revived, as I've been wanting to have this discussion for some time, and it's good excuse as any now.

In regards the subject matter in this video, and though the author highlights certain things "could've" covered, I would like to address some of them as they're mentioned at 6:00 in the video.

1.)Reduction of Armor Slots
2.)Wear & Tear & Maintenance of Equipment removed
3.)The Massive upheavel to the Alchemy System
4.)Changes in the Skill System
5.)"Off the Shelf" Magic System, and reduction of spell variety
6.)Removal of Skill Based Dialogue
7.)Removal of the Attributes System & replacement w/HP/MP/SP

1.)I'm not sure this is a bad thing, though it does mean for less treasure on part of the designers to make, can't say "left/right pauldron/Gauntlet" was ever all that meaningful. Save for couple unique items I believe, but they could be their own special case simply enough. Since obviously, any math in calculation of that can be reconfigured with the given game, and have, for Skyrim (I'm not so sure Oblivion did the math, unless they assumed ye would be doing number hunting constantly).

2.)This sounded like an unneeded, and likely tedious to most, task of upkeep. It didn't really seem that meaningful in the games, save it may allow some items to differentiate from each other bit more slightly. One case it mattered, was to the unique item, Stendarr's Hammer, which as I said above, can easily just be its own special case placed for that time.

3.)I'm not too familiar on this one, but I'm under the impression that septim coins were part of it, and I guess nearly everything could be used in alchemy in some way? Anyone who could expand on its "upheaval" being a bad thing, or the merits of its past systems would be appreciated.

4.)For its time, I would say was a great thing to strive for, lot of skills weren't that great, and Athletics/Acrobatics were kinda lame to train (though the results of "jump good" were kinda satisfying). Lot of Weapon skills were unneeded, Armor skills likely as well, though the differentiation between types seemed like a nice feature (unless it had 3.X issue of bridge between not mattering). Hell, getting rid of a redundant spell school sounds like a good thing to me, unless it was really adding to the game in some way?

5.) I'm assuming this is referring to "make your own spells"? Which I've often seen discussed as not being that good, nor really worthwhile (save to break the system). So it's possible the idea is good, just the implementation needs major rework? As for the reduction in spell variety, I do agree that is a bad, sounded cool in Morrowind to Levitate in certain dungeons, or "Recall" spell having to teleport into certain places as they have no traditional entry/exit points. Basically, that added more to overcoming obstacles, and even dungeon variety, more spells/abilities should encourage this (I'd like idea of Stamina-based powers for Warrior/Rogue guys).

6.)I'm not entirely familiar with how Morrowind did it, aside from a wiki reading. So it sounds like it makes sense that Skyrim would want to distill it down to basic 3 things you do with speec "Diplomacy, Intimidate/Taunt & Bribe". Otherwise if it's the idea of a % based check, that gets thwarted by Save scumming, while having X value works, but is limiting. I do think a system that takes a range of values, where even not having it doesn't mean can't succeed, just may need to bribe, or at worst, do some favor(s) for them. Though its sounding like this might've been the system of Morrowind anyway. So I think it's an idea that can be expanded upon, albeit doing favors can get tedious I'd imagine.

7.)Leveling up the stats was always bothersome, I imagine we don't really need to get into the janked leveling systems of the Elder Scrolls Series. I don't really think the stats were all that important to the game, though it could be considered to add some flavor to an NPC, they're values you never see (console commands/wiki aside), and meaning of said numbers would likely be lost on most anyway. I'm not really seeing how drawing them to their natural conclusion would be a bad thing.

As for the rest of the video, I recall he makes good points for the rest there. It does sound like simple stuff like replanting the Faction system, Disposition, and more Dialogue would've retained more depth for the game. Though it's true lot of NPC's having similar things to say about certain subjects makes the world seem more "real". It was also redundant, as lot of NPC's would have same responses, which I guess holds to the world's own internal consistency. Seems like the depth there isn't so much, as lot of that can easily just be copy-pasted dialogue, and possibly break character of some voiced NPC's.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:17 pm

1) It meant it was harder to assemble a set of gear. But since in Skyrim you can just craft your own, that wouldn't have mattered anyway.

3) Of all the things that saw the absolute least change between Oblivion and Skyrim I would think Alchemy would be the one to name. I have no idea what the massive upheavel is, but I admit that I only used Alchemy for making money in both Skyrim and Oblivion (as opposed to Morrowind, where it could be used for real ultimate power).

4 and 7) The problem isn't so much the removal/changes itself, so much as the removal of attributes and acrobatics/athletics de facto removes spells that modify those values. So no more Jump good spells. And anyone who ever used Icarian Flight knows what a loss that is.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:15 am

So, for the people who have Skyrim on PC, what do you consider necessary or good mods? I haven't mucked about with gameplay mods, just a few cosmetic-ish mods like "all enemies have lootable skulls" and "able to hang skulls in your home," so I'm just getting the "vanilla" Legendary experience at the moment.