[Non-political] News that makes you Laugh/Cry/Both...

Occluded Sun · Post by **Occluded Sun** » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:09 pm

Which is one of the things that worries me about electronic books. One 'update' can alter records across the globe... and there's no way to prove that isolated copies haven't been tampered with.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:09 pm

Aside from timestamps and digital forensics. Seriously, this is a thing you spend braintime worrying about?

Occluded Sun · Post by **Occluded Sun** » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:16 pm

Oh please, those are the first things a techie forger would forge.

Pixels · Post by **Pixels** » Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:52 pm

It is (not really surprisingly) difficult to perfectly forge complex documents. You have to be crazy careful not just about the document itself, but any side channels that could be used to examine how you acquired, saved, and modified it.

An example, for your viewing pleasure: article.

DSMatticus · Post by **DSMatticus** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:39 am

So after two failed attempts to link a decent Zoe Quinn now Gamergate (hahaha, really) article, here is what a not completely bullshit article on the Zoe Quinn now GamerGate (hahaha really) debacle would look like.

I mean, it's still kind of fucking shitty. Especially the second half.

For one thing: he correctly notes that some conservative bloggers are co-opting #GamerGate to attack feminism, and implicitly suggests that maybe everyone should shut the fuck up and let the controversy die because lesser of two evils. Alternative idea: stop engaging in petty corruption while using the feminist label as a shield by calling everyone who disagrees with you a "misogynerd." How's that sound for a bright idea? Jesus fucking christ.

But he also tries to play up the "internet conspiracy theories" angle. And he does so immediately after pointing out that people have found a bunch of legitimate evidence and that major websites like Kotaku and Polygon have admitted fault and changed their policies. What the hell? You've also got people like Anthony Burch (lead writer of Borderlands 2) tweeting things like "didn't you know I have friends and coworkers at Destructoid who reviewed my games? Why aren't you coming after me, you dirty misogynists?" That is not a joke or an exaggeration. That was his actual twitter taunt.

But fuck, at least the facts are mostly all there, which is more than any other article I've read has attempted.

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:27 am

I disagree. That reads like a classic PR piece.
You slightly acknowledge some issues, quickly glosses over other issues, very specific in other cases, with many assumptions and unfounded accusations.

DSMatticus · Post by **DSMatticus** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:39 am

Yes, the spin Kain is trying to put on it is bullshit. Trying to shame both sides into shutting up is just a way to try to stand up for the status quo without openly standing up for the status quo, which is why I called it kind of fucking shitty.

But it actually does hit all the important facts, which is something no other article from the insider crowd has bothered to do thus far. Their articles have been nothing but blatant smear pieces about how people who play videogames are angry misogynistic white men and you should ignore them.

Occluded Sun · Post by **Occluded Sun** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:58 pm

Pixels wrote:An example, for your viewing pleasure: article.

I am totally not surprised that a tech corporation can find the flaws in a forgery directed against them by a small number of people.

I am rather more concerned about a government, or a corporation, which creates a forgery itself. If people have learned anything from the busted conspiracies of the past, it's that they shouldn't make the same mistakes.

No US President is going to create and permit to exist recordings as incriminating as anything Nixon did. It's just not ever going to happen.

Imagine Stalin's government having access to modern data storage techniques.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:45 pm

#Gamergate finally got my jimmies rustled.

Kotaku journalist Jason Schreier, infamous for accusing George Kamitani of being a sexist homophobe (getting other games journalists to join the hate campaign) because Dragon's Crown has big boobies* in it, to the point that George Kamitani emailed him an apology (which Schreier posed in Kotaku in a gloating article). After all that Schreier 'apologized' with an article of how he would be embarassed to play Dragon's Crown, that it was juvenile, and hurt women in games.

Schreier is now saying that gamers are spreading hate culture with #gamergate and need to stop.

*Dragon's Crown voice actress Erin Fitzgerald then posted on her blog that boobs=/=sexism and the Sorceress was among the strongest women she's ever voiced. Schreier never responded nor feature it in his kotaku articles on Dragon's Crown. The other writers are alright though, like the guy who just posts the art of games.

http://erinfitzvo.com/are-bosoms-in-vid ... nding-you/

Starmaker · Post by **Starmaker** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:19 pm

OgreBattle wrote:*Dragon's Crown voice actress Erin Fitzgerald then posted on her blog that boobs=/=sexism and the Sorceress was among the strongest women she's ever voiced.

Twilight and 50 Shades are written by women. I'm sure Stephenie Meyer and Erika Leonard think their heroines are the strongest women ever. So?

DSMatticus · Post by **DSMatticus** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:56 pm

It is true that women can and do say stupid things on the topic of sexism. The one nice thing about being stupid is that it's a very inclusive label.

Though I do want to point out that "sexuality is not sexist" isn't a stupid person being stupid about sexism - that's an age old argument. Male sexuality gets a bad wrap because it has genuinely gone hand in hand with exploitation for a very long time, but it's not because the two are intrinsically linked. A lot of shitty internet blogging on the subject is done by people who don't understand the background or distinction, and as such they end up making arguments that boil down "men will like it and that's bad." Jason Schreier fell into that camp when he told people to grow up and stop liking sexualized characters.

I think I had a rant here about cheescake once. Yes, yes I did.

DSMatticus wrote:If you are arguing against cheesecake of any severity (from mild boob plates to the more severe chainmail bikini) on the basis of realism, the list of things you hate is going to include everything anyone has ever wanted to play. People don't like realism in their fantasy games (unless it's the fighter, lol fuck that guy). Sometimes they say they do, but they're usually just being stupid. I don't know why you want realism in your fantasy games; I can only assume something is fundamentally wrong with you.

If you are arguing against cheesecake on the basis of the sexualization of women, well... The world is always going to disappoint you, because people are going to like sex and sexual things probably right up until the day we stop existing as a species. I'm also not buying the argument that sexualization (of women or men) is something we inherently have to avoid or be afraid of, either. It turns out when the fundamentalists told us sex was evil, they were wrong, and the truth is they just hate fun. Liking a little bit of sex appeal here and there will not actually send you to hell.

If you are arguing against cheesecake on the basis of the objectification of women, you are confused. You are assuming that sex appeal and personhood are somehow mutually exclusive, and that is suspiciously similar to slutshaming. When the knight rescues the damsel in distress, and her clothes have strategically revealing tears, that is not objectifying because of the strategically revealing tears. That is objectifying because her only role in the story, nine times of ten, will be as the knight's reward. There are legitimate complaints there about such a shallow depiction of women as grateful maidens to be rescued and hauled off like the spoils of war, in the same way that there are legitimate complaints about the use of creepy abusive boyfriends with superpowers as protagonists for a love story. I'm pretty convinced that fictional depictions of relationships between men and women are nearly always unhealthy, regardless of who they're written by or who they're written for. That's probably something we should work on as a society, but that is a wholly separate discussion from how much cleavage is too much cleavage.

If you're arguing against cheesecake on the basis that TTRPG's have tons of things aimed at interesting men (like cheesecake), but very little aimed at interesting women; that's true but it's not an argument against cheesecake. The solution to "there's very little that interests women" is not to remove things that don't interest women, it is to add things that do interest women. Like a number of developed, relatable, and relevantly powerful female characters. But let's be honest; social norms are the largest hurdle for women getting into TTRPG's. It's less socially acceptable for women to be nerdy than it is for men, and TTRPG's are super nerdy.

The TL;DR is that sexualization does not imply objectification and to assert otherwise is pretty goddamn offensive to men. And even as I say that I am also completely comfortable acknowledging that objectification happens and is bad and that the industry needs to be way more goddamn inclusive.

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:59 pm

Starmaker wrote:
OgreBattle wrote:*Dragon's Crown voice actress Erin Fitzgerald then posted on her blog that boobs=/=sexism and the Sorceress was among the strongest women she's ever voiced.
Twilight and 50 Shades are written by women. I'm sure Stephenie Meyer and Erika Leonard think their heroines are the strongest women ever. So?

The sorceress is objectively better at long solo runs than every other character,

And Parasoul is an action monarch who leads an elite military unit while also ruling a country. The wisdom of wearing a tight miniskirt in combat may be questionable. He abilities as both a ruler and a commander are not.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:25 pm

DSMatticus wrote:The solution to "there's very little that interests women" is not to remove things that don't interest women, it is to add things that do interest women.

You did miss one argument: Women are repelled by cheesecake. Patronizing, but people do actually advance it.

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:34 pm

I'm one of those people who is repelled by characters that are ridiculously sexualized. I never played giant titty magic adventure, but that art makes it clear I do not want to play that game. If I saw a dude who was 90% crotch bulge I would not want to play that game either.

There's a point where it gets gross (unless it's a comedy thing). I don't need my games to be porn. That's what my porn is for. I would rather not play a giant pair of cartoon tits, is what I'm saying.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:50 pm

Pseudo Stupidity wrote:There's a point where it gets gross (unless it's a comedy thing). I don't need my games to be porn. That's what my porn is for. I would rather not play a giant pair of cartoon tits, is what I'm saying.

Says the guy who mains jana support. Kappa.

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:16 pm

fectin wrote:You did miss one argument: Women are repelled by cheesecake. Patronizing, but people do actually advance it.

That is not true. Some people (both male and female) like it, some don't.

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:28 pm

Kaelik wrote:
Pseudo Stupidity wrote:There's a point where it gets gross (unless it's a comedy thing). I don't need my games to be porn. That's what my porn is for. I would rather not play a giant pair of cartoon tits, is what I'm saying.
Says the guy who mains jana support. Kappa.

I use the skin where she wears clothes! Still has the phone sex joke, though.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:30 am

So if boobs and tits in video games are considered sexist, does this mean we should boycott Miltank?

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:44 am

I would be okay with doing that, actually.

Note: I don't recommend doing a google image search on Miltank. I know this to my cost.

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:12 am

Miltank is my son's favorite pokemon. X|

Eikre · Post by **Eikre** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:27 pm

Man don't you guys know?

click

Count Arioch the 28th · Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:13 pm

I think I posted this before, but it bears repeating:

Eikre · Post by **Eikre** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:49 pm

EDIT: This post was written before viewing the repost Count Aurioch just made, and indeed before viewing any other information about Dragon Crown at all. It is from the perspective of almost perfect ignorance about the game, because the nuances of that game are, in fact, almost irrelevant; it is merely the model for a certain applied critique.

So my question is, is there anything particularly validating to the personhood of that sorceress?

So she's statistically strong, which means I have an advantage playing her, and she has tits like a bouncy castle, which means I'll have an advantage when I pause the game and rub my penis all over my LCD display.

But when she expresses her opinion, are the members of Delta Kai Fuckface still inclined to wish there was a "shut your fucking mouth and make me a goddamned sandwich" button on the dualshock 4? Because when I look at her through my asshole goggles, I'm thinking that whatever winning personality or dignity as a individual she has is not a selling feature and is, in point of fact, a mere eccentric quality that the developers earned for her by attaching it to the assets "My bollocks are happy" and "My score is good."

Yeah, sure, you and I observe a character like the sorceress and comprehend: There is nothing about bouncing tits and flat tummies that contradicts our enlightened values. Meanwhile, the wannabe date rapists out there will continue to summarize her as a bitch, that being the default term for creatures with vaginas.

That is the status quo. Mass media (and all other contributions to the cultural exchange at large) have the power to either challenge the status quo, or not. And, arguably, if you're not challenging the it, then you may in fact be bolstering it.

So that brings us to "big tits are/are not sexist," a topic which may or may not be worth discussing at all because it is in fact a distraction from a related critique, which unfortunately will not fit as a title for a tumblr blog: "Big tits are not a bad thing, but are notable as a type of feature which, disproportionately to their actual value, ingratiate your product to the sensibilities of bad people. Is it possible that by including bit tits prominently, you concede that bad people are a target audience? Is it possible that by including big tits prominently, you concede that other features of your product do not deserve the same focus? Please show your work."

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:03 pm

Well what I've heard of dragon crown, is that the game is not that good.
Yet everyone knows the game, because of the sexism outrage.
So I guess if you want to sell shitty games, you should be as sexist as possible (well at least, with your portrayal of women, nobody cares about the sexist portrayal of men in dragon crown).

erik · Post by **erik** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:38 pm

I've a friend who has Dragon Crown and we played it a fair bit. Only on multiplayer though.

The sorceress and in fact all of the characters don't have a lot of personality. They don't get cut scenes or stuff like that, it just has NPC still pictures that pop up and have text. To say that any character is a strong character is dumb. They are just side-scroller characters with no more personality than the characters from comparables such as Final Fight or Aliens vs Predator. Basically it is one of those games with a levels/skill trees and equipment to manage.

The game certainly has its faults, the menus are often poorly labeled, a fair bit of the interface is not intuitive, the GUI for picking a dungeon to go to is shitty, and multiplayer is aggravating since you each individually have to accept and quests and their rewards. All that said, it was fun to get together and just bash stuff up on a side-scroller. Game play was entertaining, it had enough options and a learning curve to keep things interesting. I played the elf and left the language on Japanese as an approximation of her speaking elvish.

Main reason we stopped playing was no fault of the game. It was simply no mean feat to assemble the same quartet of players who have different homes and schedules at the same location to play a game in the evening. That and we already struggle to get our weekly RPG/game night on.