The Gaming Den

Yes, such noticeably different head proportions.

Does PF2 have a net setting or expanded on their old setting?

Same setting: Golarion, where time advances at one year per RL year, and apparently there won't be a disaster to explain away changes the way D&D has done it in the past. Which is probably good.

angelfromanotherpin wrote:Yes, such noticeably different head proportions.

She's about half a head shorter with a waist about 3/4 the width of the original, that's literally the difference between a skinny teenager and athletic adult, so yeah.

Yeah, that was an own goal if I ever saw one. In comic/manga terms you could sell me on the old art being post-timeskip Amiri while the new art is from the prequel.

The head is identical size. The waist/chest becomes smaller, so I guess proportionately compared to waist width yes, the head is smaller, but height seems nearly identical as well. Mostly they gave her a thinner torso. As variation between artists goes, that's not a bad likeness at all and certainly not a change towards "giant fuckin noggin" by any stretch of the imagination.

[edit: do we need to compare the endless Mialee/Lidda/Krusks etc. through the ages?]

erik wrote:The head is identical size. The waist/chest becomes smaller, so I guess proportionately compared to waist width yes, the head is smaller, but height seems nearly identical as well. Mostly they gave her a thinner torso. As variation between artists goes, that's not a bad likeness at all and certainly not a change towards "giant fuckin noggin" by any stretch of the imagination.

[edit: do we need to compare the endless Mialee/Lidda/Krusks etc. through the ages?]

Both pictures were drawn by Wayne Reynolds. The new one is an intentional re-design, not an artifact of different artists.

There's no artist signature on the second one, I wonder if it was commissioned to be a legally distinct art work to avoid royalties or something That, or an audition piece by a new artist that someone decided they like better. Nevermind, same artist. There's a lot of things to prefer about the new piece: her expression is a snarl instead of a derp, and the arm+sword are in a more natural pose with the sword actually being a thing she's interacting with, instead of a piece of clipart pasted into the picture.

She's not a cabbage patch doll or anything, but the body is definitely slightly smaller in relation to the head in the new image, which makes her seem shorter. With the thinner arms/torso if you told me the new image was 17-year-old Amiri on her first adventure and the old one was 25-year-old Amiri with some levels under her belt I'd believe you.

erik wrote:As variation between artists goes, that's not a bad likeness at all and certainly not a change towards "giant fuckin noggin" by any stretch of the imagination.

Are we seriously going to fret over tone on the Den? Some people think she looks less physically imposing and a clear explanation of why that isn't insane has been given. If I overreached it's by calling what is apparently an intentional redesign amateur hour, not by pointing out that her head is now nearly as wide as her torso.

This "iconic barbarian" looked lame before and she looks lame now. She looks like some lame ass bitch off the cover of a cheap fantasy YA novel. No one is going to look at her and get PUMPED UP to make a character and ROLL SOME FUCKIN DICE.

If I google "female fantasy barbarian" the first 100 images are all better than Paizo's barbarian.

Apparently there was an isometric CRPG of Kingmaker, and they gave all the characters a non-Reynolds makeover. This is their version of her:


Better? Worse?

I liked it more. She reads as tougher and more confident to me. I still wish she was more muscled up, though.

Whipstitch wrote:

erik wrote:As variation between artists goes, that's not a bad likeness at all and certainly not a change towards "giant fuckin noggin" by any stretch of the imagination.

Are we seriously going to fret over tone on the Den? Some people think she looks less physically imposing and a clear explanation of why that isn't insane has been given. If I overreached it's by calling what is apparently an intentional redesign amateur hour, not by pointing out that her head is now nearly as wide as her torso.

That's because she's become rail-thin not because big head mode's been triggered. Both give the moe waif effect you'd expect out of a teenage girl in fantasy art, but take different roads to get there.

You're correct in the effect, but completely wrong about her head and how they got there.

I was th inking more along just head vs waist when i posted, but fine, if we're going full pedant i guess i was both right and horribly wrong.

It's literally a tracing of the previous head. The rest of the body is drawn smaller, making the head to body ratio larger. Why is this discussion still going on?

-Username17

No fucking clue. Who wants to discuss leveled items? I think the concept is interesting but it's always going to fail in the world of TTRPGs due to how videogame-y the concept is.

However, I think if a careful approach is taken, it might work in establishing 'Here's where you need to be at level X or Y'. Some kind of table that shows what abilities your character just needs to have to participate.

Axebird wrote:I liked it more. She reads as tougher and more confident to me. I still wish she was more muscled up, though.

Here you go:

FrankTrollman wrote:It's literally a tracing of the previous head. The rest of the body is drawn smaller, making the head to body ratio larger. Why is this discussion still going on?

-Username17

I think the problem is is twofold. First, I really wanted to write "big fuckin' noggin" because I am juvenile enough to think swears are funny. Second, people are unwilling to assume I just mean a>b=b<a instead of something stupid. I'd be mad, but I remember how Silva and Shadzar used to post, so I kinda get it.

I think I was triggered by my aversion to hyperbole because it’s the worst fucking thing in the universe.

Erik, I love you. Never change.

What’s a wyvern like in PF2e, they seem a good benchmark monster

OgreBattle wrote:What’s a wyvern like in PF2e, they seem a good benchmark monster

It comes out in August. There weren't any wyverns in the playtest bestiary.

There are probably hundreds of images of Amiri drawn throughout the many, many Pathfinder books Paizo released throughout the last decade, most of them by different artists. So there will be a lot of variation on how she was depicted.
That being said, the new version looks more like a sickly goth princess.

As for PF2E, I'm not making the jump to it, because it abandoned the 3.X skeleton and I don't like the new ideas they went with. No problem, I still got adventure path material from PF1E to GM until another decade has passed.

Don't really care either way, as my experience with the character is some of Kingmaker and occasionally mocking her build as an Iconic Character. I'm more interested in how PF2E ends up performing because if it does well, then most of the third party support will likely jump with and the actual parts of PF I like will go unsupported.

Well, it's finally here. Not certain if I can post external links but it's up on archive of Nethys.