Stuff that wasn't Eberron

[CalibronXXX]

Killing things and looting them isn't a sacred cow, it's the entire premise of the game.

[Captain_Bleach]

Know any fantasy settings that don't base the game around killing things and looting their corpses?
I know that their are non-fantasy settings like that, but what about fantasy settings?
Ever wanted to role-play a game in D&D (or other fantasy game) about in-game politics, romance between a knight and a noble, or something that would not ordinarily be combat intensive, without having the game devolve into a "hack-and-slash" fest?

[CalibronXXX]

I usually stick to White Wolf if I want to play politics. And I get plenty of role-playing in my normal D&D sessions; it probably helps that we're all amateur artists of one bent or another.

[NineInchNall]

White Wolf politics? You mean the system that lets you start off as the prince of city A, with a retainer who is the prince of city B, whose retainer is the prince of city C, etc.?

[CalibronXXX]

Even if you start off with Status 5 and Retainer 5 you still aren't going to be prince, or have one as a flunky. With Status 5 there'll still be between half a dozen and a few dozen vamps who're just as politically powerful as you, and a at least a couple that are higher up.

[NineInchNall]

No, Status 5 really is, and I quote, "Prince or 'true paragon'." Retainer 5 really does say that your retainer has >= 2 traits with 5 dots.

I think Frank went on a tear about this subject a while back.

EDIT: Yup, in this thread.

[angelfromanotherpin]

Know any fantasy settings that don't base the game around killing things and looting their corpses?
I know that their are non-fantasy settings like that, but what about fantasy settings?

It's important do divorce setting from system. D&D is about killing things and taking their stuff, because that's the basis for the reward mechanic. Eberron, Greyhawk and Krynn are only about that because D&D is about that.

This is why it's such a shame that the Song of Ice and Fire property was made into a d20 game.

Ever wanted to role-play a game in D&D (or other fantasy game) about in-game politics, romance between a knight and a noble, or something that would not ordinarily be combat intensive, without having the game devolve into a "hack-and-slash" fest?

I frequently do play such games, just not in D&D. My first recommendation would be to look at a few of the fantasy Rome settings out there. There's Fulminata, and another one in GURPS Fantasy.

[Captain_Bleach]

Tell me more about GURPS Fantasy.

[CalibronXXX]

As much I adore Martin's masterpieces, isn't Song of Ice and Fire at its core mostly about killing enemies and taking their stuff? In this case land, titles, and political position being as or more important than actual phat loot? After all didn't

SPOILERS

Lord Tywin make a point of melting down Ice and having it reforged for Jaime and that little monster Joffrey?

END SPOILERS

[angelfromanotherpin]

CaptainBleach, here's a [counturl=102]review[/counturl]. I'm not that familiar with it, personally.

Calibron, there is quite a lot of murder and pillage in ASOIAF, but that's not what it's about. Some people are out for dominion and swag, but some people are looking for justice, or a worthy cause, or ale and whores, or respect from their parents and peers. While murder and pillage are one method of getting what people think they want, it's not the only way.

[CalibronXXX]

1189571642[/unixtime]]Calibron, there is quite a lot of murder and pillage in ASOIAF, but that's not what it's about. Some people are out for dominion and swag, but some people are looking for justice, or a worthy cause, or ale and whores, or respect from their parents and peers.

The funny part is, most of that can be attributed to alignment. Just about every character that hasn't jumped into the whole killing and looting thing, for one reason or another, with both feet has been killed off; In fact the only one I can think of off hand is the prince of Dorne, and he's only avoiding that cause he knows he'd get tromped. Don't get me wrong though, I understand and appreciate the layers of complexity, the realistic characterization, the lush setting, ect.,; the man's a genius writer; one of my top three favorite authors.

While murder and pillage are one method of getting what people think they want, it's not the only way.

Of course, you can be subtle and practically untouchable about it like Little Finger, honorable and self-sacrificial about it like Ser Barristan, or really freakin' bad at it like Cersei. Off the top of my head the only major character I can think of that accomplishes things without at least moderate stabination, either in person or by proxy, is Samwell Tarly; and even his hands aren't totally clean.

In the Game of Thrones you win or you die.

[Prak]

Halflings = children (annoying little fucks who steal everything and have no place in an adventuring party).

Oddly enough, as I was a Warhammer player before a roleplayer, I at first assumed the drow would have pale skin, like the dark elves, to reflect their living in a place where the sun hasn't been invented yet.

Crazy talk, I know.

So, who are the Nords? Both the 9 foot tall, bearded Vikings and the blonde-haired large-breasted pretty pale women? Ooh! And we need the race that's going to try to wipe out the gnomes and dwarfs, too!

And I always picked dwarfs as being stereotypical Russians: drinking a lot, gruff and unfriendly at first, though they stick together with their comrades, always at war with someone, the whole "mining in very cold places" thing... then Iron Kingdoms made Khador, the Dwarf kingdom, basically Sovjet Russia. Which led to mandatory "In Sovjet Khador, darkness attacks YOU!*" style jokes.

*Damning Darkness (Book of Vile Body Piercings). Check it out.

The Russian stereotype for dwarves works too… this is how game developers get around slander charges… by taking a bunch of unflattering stereotypes and cramming them together… once, I would love to see a dwarven worshipper of obad hai with vow of poverty, it’d be different.

1189502964[/unixtime]]

1189491365[/unixtime]]Ooh! And we need the race that's going to try to wipe out the gnomes and dwarfs, too!

You can take your pick from goblinoids or kobolds. Take aspects from Bugbear and Hobgoblin twist them a bit and you might have something that looks German if you squint real hard.

Well, the kobolds are lawful and hate gnomes, so that would work, sorta, but I think if you just take straight hobgoblins, with their militaristic nature, you could do a fairly faithful allusion to nazi germany…

Dude, D&D Dwarves come straight from Tolkien, who based them on the Nibelung, an actual, preexisting nordic/germanic folktale critter. There is not, as far as I know, anything racial going on there sve for the racial element in all old myths.

Similarly, "Aelfs" are seriously Celtic myths. Not a parody of asians.

What I’m talking about are the various parts of the races that parody racial stereotypes. Dwarves hoard wealth and have big noses, that’s a jewish stereotype. Gnomes are good with money and have big noses, hell, they get a bonus to alchemy because of their bog noses, again, a jewish stereotype. Elves are often seen as being obsessive about the land, and other things that bad writers take from clichéd western movie treatments of the native Americans. They are also seen as mystical super-warriors, and they’re depicted as having women that “are hotter than ‘ours’”, both asian stereotypes.

I know several people that portray Goblins as mexicans, since we're on the racist D&D races subject.

Yes, but thankfully that portrayal has yet to be made cannon… and it’d be infinitely funnier to portray Halflings as Mexicans…

I've also known people portray kobolds as jews, on the grounds that they thrive despite the fact the rest of the world hates them.

I like the reasoning, but I’ve yet to see a kobold hyped up about kobold rights, or yelling at an adventuring party to help him kill one of those “genocidal, goosestepping gnomes”(even though gnome Nazis would be hilarious… I propose we call them gnazis.)

[Koumei]

Regarding games that aren't all about stabbing people in the face:

In the games I play, usually there's a reasonable amount of that, but plenty of other things as well. It's a comfortable mi. You have your fight or quick succession of battles each session, but you also have the politics and the general "talking with people and doing stuff".

That being said, I'm wary of any game advertised as "political", after encounters with the World of Dorkness.

"Oh, this is a classy game, for ROLEplayers, not ROLLplayers. Yes, very political, absolutely non-combat. So I used Dominate 5 on the bunch of them, right, and they all made me Prince, then I Dominated this other guy..."

If electricity could be generated from hatred, then WW could allow me to power the entire world indefinitely.

On the races:

I personally wouldn't mind simply not seeing any dwarfs at all. They have the racial traits of "bad-tempered", "disruptive", "ugly" and "smell bad". Needs moar humans.

Hmm. Come to think of it, there is that one human-only god, isn't there? Dwarfs get their "It's okay to be short and ugly" gods, elves get their "We're better than you!" gods, and humans get a "We're NAZIS!" god.

Anyway, I still have no clue about where both types of Norse fit in, which is sad, that being my favourite culture.

[angelfromanotherpin]

1189587434[/unixtime]]
"Oh, this is a classy game, for ROLEplayers, not ROLLplayers. Yes, very political, absolutely non-combat. So I used Dominate 5 on the bunch of them, right, and they all made me Prince, then I Dominated this other guy..."

Politics is about managing power. It can be legislative power, military power, and even supernatural mind control power. What they were trying to sell you on was intrigue.

Mind control powers can be perfectly acceptable and interesting in a political game. They are, however, immediately and terminally destructive to intrigue.

Anyway, I still have no clue about where both types of Norse fit in, which is sad, that being my favourite culture.

The Frost Giants are right there in the MM.

[Koumei]

It wasn't only the mind-control aspect, which is really just a way of saying "I win" (in any game), and an annoying way to "beat" the other players and have the whole game session just be one big masturbation session for yourself, it was the fact that "I use Dominate, I win" is apparently what passes for roleplaying these days. Because it doesn't involve swords, see?

And I rather meant as PCs, not Norse monsters. And Frost Giants *might* account for Vikings, but not for hot Swedish girls.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

Just portray female frost giants as hot, problem solved.

[CalibronXXX]

Count, you know you can't solve all your problems by sexing up things in the monster manual.

[Koumei]

...with a "We smoke crack!" ECL of 18, or playable as a tenth level character. Don't get me wrong, I think Swedish girls are awesome and all, but I'm not so sure that a couple of them could wade through Israel and take out most of their militia.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

1189607366[/unixtime]]Count, you know you can't solve all your problems by sexing up things in the monster manual.

Quiet you, that's what makes humans great.

[Cielingcat]

1189608641[/unixtime]]...with a "We smoke crack!" ECL of 18, or playable as a tenth level character. Don't get me wrong, I think Swedish girls are awesome and all, but I'm not so sure that a couple of them could wade through Israel and take out most of their militia.

That's because Israeli chicks are hot.

[Koumei]

I prefer my girls Nordic-looking, in a "Swede = Awesome!" way, not an "I don't like Israeli women" way.

Granted, I'm not in a position to be too choosy at the moment, what with all the girls who find me attractive living overseas, but still.

[Prak]

"Oh, this is a classy game, for ROLEplayers, not ROLLplayers. Yes, very political, absolutely non-combat. So I used Dominate 5 on the bunch of them, right, and they all made me Prince, then I Dominated this other guy..."

see, the funy thing about that is that I used to play a weekly werewolf game, and it was very combat oriented... we were like a TV show of the Buffy, Angel, etc. variety. WW games can be very combat oriented, and I loathe the idea of having to sit through even one hour of vampire politics... especially when I want to play vampires for the reason of "Kill stuff, drink blood", not "sit around for eternity as the whipping boy of an entire fucking nation."

[Count Arioch the 28th]

1189614979[/unixtime]]I prefer my girls Nordic-looking, in a "Swede = Awesome!" way, not an "I don't like Israeli women" way.

Granted, I'm not in a position to be too choosy at the moment, what with all the girls who find me attractive living overseas, but still.

Consider yourself lucky. All the girls that find me attractive are non-existant.

[shirak]

1189613892[/unixtime]]That's because Israeli chicks are hot.

Ah, yes. The wonders of the Israeli army. Like her:



I have no idea if this one is an Israeli but she deserves special mention:







Koumei, are Russians Nordic-looking enough for your tastes? Here's one:

[JonSetanta]

wowooo! Ima joinin da Armyyy aw shit wait, I'm American. We just sacrifice our grunts to Arab extremists in a pissy third world country....

I'm so lad my friend was discharged from National Guard on the grounds of being bipolar. He'd be over there again. It was a close enough call he got sent back from Afganisuck after only a few months deployment as pretty much a 'town peacekeeper'....