The Gaming Den

IIRC Lago is in the navy and has internet access which is intermittent at best.

Alas

Awww boo

Oh yeah, guess I should've remembered that.

I've had more Internet lately than usual.

I've held up the story because I'm trying to search for logs. Right now I'm going off entirely on memory. I guess I'll post some more later today.

I don't think I'm going to ever finish this story.

Partly because I can't go through logs to search for relevant details to describe more of how I felt, but mostly because I can't give a rat's ass about Dungeons and Dragons right now.

But anyway, over in the Mutants and Masterminds thread I noticed that the urge to min-max is still there. So let me tell you a secret.

I love playing White Hats.

I have a job where I am a cog in a machine with goals I am morally opposed to and my country is heading in a direction I strongly disagree with. I see more and more stuff about the world I really don't like and it makes me sad.

So like any moral coward, I retreat into escapism. Oh, sure, I vote in local elections and almost gave money to the DNC (Though Rahm Emanuel, Hillary Clinton, and Nancy Pelosi disgust me so goddamn much I didn't go through with it) but in the grand scheme of things I am not a good person. And it makes me sad sometimes.

But in my magical teaparty world I can play characters with few moral failings and always stand up to the badguys and treat all intelligent creatures with respect and blah de blah.

For a game, I tend to take my roles pretty seriously. If my character's goals or dreams fail or my party does not make it to the big finish, I take it personally. So I pretty much have to defeat the coven of pirates or to make diplomacy go down between the orc and elf factions. I seek every advantage I can find without disrupting the game then I do it do it.

I think this pathetic projecting is more my reason than anything for min-maxxing.

I know what I said sounds sad and lame but it's true.

Interesting. I tend to play evil or morally ambiguous characters with broad overarching power schemes that tend toward manipulation. I do this because it is in my nature to be rather similar to these characters, but I tightly control this part of myself due to my devotion to God's will; I am of limited resources currently, but I still do a, relatively, great deal of good when I can. Donating my time to various charities and outreaches, donating money as well back when I had a job, doing my best to help people cope with their problems by talking with them, or just listening to them vent. I'm a born lier and an excellent manipulator, but I don't do these things because I strive to be good in real life; in a role playing game I can explore these tendencies and fantasies to their full extent without hurting anyone. Even through my choice of career I strive to do as much good in the world as I can; I want to be a Clinical Psychologist so I can help people work through there own problems and become healthy and functional, and hopefully themselves begin to do Good.

Lago_AM3P at [unixtime wrote:1195103637[/unixtime]]
I think this pathetic projecting is more my reason than anything for min-maxxing.

Isn't the whole point of RP to project what you want to be into a made up world where you can actually be that?

It is for me. Hence most of my characters end up being remarkably successful, surrounded by friends, happy and beautiful. Usually with a sexual partner.

Draco_Argentum at [unixtime wrote:1195122583[/unixtime]]

Lago_AM3P at [unixtime wrote:1195103637[/unixtime]]
I think this pathetic projecting is more my reason than anything for min-maxxing.

Isn't the whole point of RP to project what you want to be into a made up world where you can actually be that?

For some people (me at the very least), it's a variety of chess where the player gets to handmake their pieces. The fact that I rarely find anyone to play the real chess with does help (not that I'd quit RPG if that was more common).

Well, to be honest, I find some sort of dirty secret pleasure in playing with numbers, poring through books for feats, and trying to fit all of my favourite spells in.

Yeah I know, playing with numbers is a dirty secret pleasure and S&M I'm open about.

I don't even like playing with numbers but I'm good at it and it helps me impress people in competitive games. I have no idea why I do it in cooperative games and in fact I've pretty much stopped.

When playing casters I don't bother doing it much. I keep my casting stat good enough to cast, I pick spells I like, and I play and the game works well.

With non-casters, I make sure I don't suck. Depending on what kind of non-caster, this can take effort.

Gawd I hate the numbers but the story and strategy aspect of RPGs are the best.
Half-role, half-roll, that's me. Right down the middle.

I don't play moral characters, for good or evil. I'm beyond alignment, usually. Been there, done that. Played the anti-paladin, and the good monk, and the malicious Transmuter, and the compassionate half-troll, and so on.
I'm over it.
Nothing but Chaos for me now. Freedom to roam and make nation-bending actions, which (as Koumei stated) is lacking in reality and so my fantasy is projected into the game.
But as Lago stated, I don't give a shit right now.
Cycles of work, sleep, socialize, cuddle and stuff with my girlfriend, and other odds n ends between.

No mental energy left these days for fretting which race gets what stats, or at which level a True Fey gets some class ability..

Still, I'm itching for that good ol' 'living story' feel, since writing fiction alone depends on memory and there are only so many dreams and experiences to write. Time to round up the pals for this winter.

Koumei at [unixtime wrote:1195175927[/unixtime]]
Yeah I know, playing with numbers is a dirty secret pleasure and S&M I'm open about.

Given the nature of my encounters with 'higher' mathematics over the years, I totally support this position.

Oh, I'm not good at higher math. I did Advanced Math all the way up to grade 11. In Grade 11, I was so bad at it that I was failing, so it was decided "Without advanced math, you probably can't take the Uni course you want anyway, and taking basic math won't help that." so I dropped out of math and didn't take it at all in Grade 12.

Apparently, being really good at the basics means you'll be a natural at bullshit geometry, the sin/cos/tan crap and probability based formulae.

So yeah, I'm just good with actual numbers, and making those numbers bigger or smaller.

Koumei at [unixtime wrote:1195365495[/unixtime]]Oh, I'm not good at higher math. I did Advanced Math all the way up to grade 11. In Grade 11, I was so bad at it that I was failing, so it was decided "Without advanced math, you probably can't take the Uni course you want anyway, and taking basic math won't help that." so I dropped out of math and didn't take it at all in Grade 12.

Exact same situation with me.
Problems with trig and calc meant lost opportunities in computer/engineering related degrees too.

The first half of differential equations was a mind blower for me. Suddenly all the work I did in freshman year, the studying, the massive crib sheets, were all reduced to less than a paragraph of concept. A hundred or so equations with parameters that made no sense suddenly becoming so intitutively obvious that I had a hard time tutoring freshmen.

Then the second half went into this imaginary space and I got completely lost.

And what was the point of it all? Beats me, most computers don't do anything other than simple math anyway.

Koumei at [unixtime wrote:1195125034[/unixtime]]It is for me. Hence most of my characters end up being remarkably successful, surrounded by friends, happy and beautiful. Usually with a sexual partner.

>_>

So... if I play characters with impossible goals, that are surrounded by people that are allies of convenience (and probably potential enemies and most likely enemy spies), are not happy and without any sort of companion that could be classified as anything except "dependant" or "liabilty" [Edit: I meant "mentally damaged former friend"]... means what exactly?



Usually my "goal" when making a character is...

"Make sure you get out of this next situation with as many allies alive."

Seriously, that's my characters over-arching goal. Survival.


As a result, I'll pull all sorts of shenanigans and dumpster diving for abilities/spells/feats/PrCs to make sure that what I want to have happen, does happen.

The silly thing is that after using a lot of Frank and K's stuff, it's less of a concern, since people can make super or sub-par decisions on their own.

Differential equations? Isn't that what we get Mathematica to do for us?

Surgo at [unixtime wrote:1195854125[/unixtime]]Differential equations? Isn't that what we get Mathematica to do for us?

Not when we have a fucking midterm on Monday, god damn it.

Koumei at [unixtime wrote:1195125034[/unixtime]]It is for me. Hence most of my characters end up being remarkably successful, surrounded by friends, happy and beautiful. Usually with a sexual partner.

I don't think I've ever played a character that had a sexual partner. I'm fairly clueless as to how that normally works, so I don't try to emulate it in game, for fear of doing it poorly.

It's not such an "at the table" thing. You know, they're just there. The DM has the option of having ninjas or whatever kidnap the lover, but other than that, there might be "I go home to spend time/have sex/cuddle with my partner." or "I buy something for my lover" or "I don't care how many breasts the Succubus has, I'm remaining faithful. You want to level drain me, you'll need to do it the non-subtle way by slapping me with a Wight"*.

*Which they will do. I guarantee it.

I now have a very bizarre mental image of a giant using wights as improvised weapons. And bitch-slapping people with them, much in style of dueling gloves.

Surgo at [unixtime wrote:1195854125[/unixtime]]Differential equations?

Knowing differential equations is more than half the battle, it is three quarters of the battle. Solving them is the last 25%. I remember back a few decades ago when it was "intitutively obvious" that the Laffier curve was actually a differential equation but it was presented as a static curve.

(Proof: If you raise a person's taxes slowly over time there is a good chance they won't notice it, were if you keep it flat for several years and give it in one big bang they will get immediately annoyed. It's sort of how you don't notice that the water is slowly heating around you but you jump when dropped directly into the boiling water.)