The Psychoanalyst (or what class for Liche-Freud?)

[Judging__Eagle]

Yeah, being able to keep almost any target out of action every other round is pretty beefy.

On the other hand, there's about a 50% chance of failure.

I should make Analyzing a Swift action. How does that sound?

You spend your Swift and Standard action to try to Daze one target of your CR.

At lvl say.. 16, I can assume that you've got 18 Int + 4 (lvls) + 6 items + 5 (Wish) = 33 Int, or +11... Well a 4+ on a d20 to successfully Analyze a target of your CR at lvl 16.

I should just make it a class level check vs target CR + 10; so that it's always 50%.

[Bigode]

I like that (the class; simuposted) too. Swift analysis seems OK too.

About the dazing, just add that it unmakes the analysis (though it might be better to give the abilities that cause this similar names, and state it only once instead of in each ability). What about a group therapy, for affecting multiple people with the status abilities? Also, distortion might be better as negative levels (just state it can't have permanent effect on target that survives), so that it has a chance actually win a duel against something immune to nonlethal damage (also, since we have emo undead elsewhere, it makes all the sense); you might also consider this. Lastly, the sole problem I see is that this guy doesn't have much to do with feats after all.

[Judging__Eagle]

Nope, the class seriously needs it's own range of Skill Feats (perhaps, even having 8 skill pts a lvl or even perhaps 10-12).

I have an idea on how to hurt stuff that's not normally affected by subdual damage, but it's not really that good.

Death Urge is very hawt.

[JonSetanta]

10-12 isn't too bad. As long as the class has a d4 HD/+2 HP a level, 1/2 BAB, 1 good save, and nothing exotic like free feats out the wazoo and Defense bonuses, it's good.

In a point based system I began maybe 2 years ago, that "Mage HD" of 1/2 BAB, d4, 2 SP, 1 save is 5 'character points'.
Each level has 14 (plus 1 CP for an alternative to the feats/ability increase at 1,3,6,9, etc) and feats range from 2 to 3 CP, some powerful class abilities at times around 4.
For reference, +2 to a skill is 1 CP and from here I assigned value to class skill points, HP, and so on.
BAB and saves were tough to assign with much headache, but it turns out that saves progress almost like skill points (2+1/2 level when 'good' so it resembles a skill, while default 1/3 advancement 'poor' is free)

I mostly use this data to check if classes are balanced to each other, since it's based off of the absolute worth of bonuses rather than function of spells and feats.
Comparing the 'chassis' of a class or the basic HD stats is easy, but ones opinion on whether my "d20 point based system" is truly balanced or not really is relative.
Still...

When applied to making d20 classes even outside of the "d20 Twilight system" which someone actually told me was a ripoff title (???) it helps, just a bit.

In d20T this class would have pretty much a Mage Hit Die:
1/2 BAB -1 CP (3/4 is -2 CP and 1/1 is -3 CP each level)
d4 HP -2 CP (1 HP average for -1 CP)
Will save is -1 CP for good advancement at all levels (and another -1 CP at level 1, when all characters get a one time bonus of +10 CP for basic stuff)
and normally +2 Skill Points for -1 CP a level, but....

For the Psychoanalyst, after applying Mage HD we have 14 -5 = 9 CP left over!
That's worth around 5 feats if one wanted such a thing (by this analysis)
Or, 9x2 = 18 skill points a level, if nothing else is taken.
The Ultimate Expert.

From what I see, it looks like a mostly feat/class ability driven class with supernatural effects so let's assume (since the judging method for worth of a feat is a bit lengthy for here) that they range in the Powerful category, for about -3 CP each.
This leaves 6 CP left after class abilities for yet still 12 skill points.

So there's my answer, using the d20 Twilight point system I had devised. 12 skill points a level.

Sorry to splat a reference to a nearly unknown d20 system but I considered it a relevant circumstance.
I can provide link to my wiki if anyone wants, mostly gone stale since I've pursued more fluff-based writings, and the number crunchin drove me mad. >_<

[Judging__Eagle]

Yeah, the analysis that the class has the options of:

Round:

1. Try to analyze a creature (50% chance of success, I'm gonna make it d20 + class lvls vs creature CR + 10) or Use Realize Inner Struggle if enemies are vunerable to Subdual Damage. Send Conditioned creature to fight enemies (I should have a corrolary on the Conditioned set of class abilites that keeps your 'cohorts' at a set CR of your lvl - 2).

2. Either use Distortion or an other effect to hamper said creature or use Catharsis if an already Analyzed ally is in need of it.

I think that most of the time, using your cohort and dropping subdual damage at range will be what most Psychanalysts use. The Analyze ability is potentially strong, but takes multiple rounds to realize its value initially.

Having a strong suite of social and knowledge skills will help round this character out a bit more as well as keep the 'analyst' flavour that I was looking for.

[Judging__Eagle]

I'm probably just make the realize inner struggle an ability that gives +1d6 per level and then spread the existing powers over the levels.

[Bigode]

Any chance of getting if finished?

[Judging__Eagle]

Right now, I'd say that it's pretty much done; only the last 5 levels need any sort of work from what I recall. Level 1-15 should be enough to give you an idea as to what the class might need later on.

What do you think I should finish or polish off? If you're using this or have, tell me what did or didn't work out.

[Bigode]

Have not played so far, for starters. Would include horrible revelation (which actually sounds better as "realization", IMO), with the successful save effect being constant flat-footedness (yeah, uncanny dodge makes it "nothing", but aside from that, you'd lose bonuses all the time even acting). Slip of the tongue could go in one the emptier levels, 11-14. Swift analysis at some point would be welcome, as would be the insertion of the stuff on the end of your own OP. The damage should be (level or level+1) d6. Also, high-level features of course, and stuff on my previous post (except for horrible realization, which shouldn't auto-daze):

About the dazing, just add that it unmakes the analysis (though it might be better to give the abilities that cause this similar names, and state it only once instead of in each ability). What about a group therapy, for affecting multiple people with the status abilities? Also, distortion might be better as negative levels (just state it can't have permanent effect on target that survives), so that it has a chance actually win a duel against something immune to nonlethal damage (also, since we have emo undead elsewhere, it makes all the sense); you might also consider this. Lastly, the sole problem I see is that this guy doesn't have much to do with feats after all.

(The emo undead reference was to this.)

[Judging__Eagle]

I copied the text and repasted it, b/c it was from the old boards and was full of html and was "wall of text".

I'm going to update this over the next few days or after the 12th when winter break starts.

[Aktariel]

Do you want this included in the next PDF version?

[Judging__Eagle]

Not this version, but yeah, this class is both wierd and interesting enough that I think other people would like to at least see it.

[For Valor]

The "Realize The Inner Struggle" class feature is a bit strong, especially with the Immediate and Faster adjustments. Of the SRD creatures I looked up, about 50% could be taken out with a Swift, Move-equivalent, and Standard use of this move (dealing 14d6 per attack for 42d6 total, and not allowing for DR or energy resistance--147 damage on average), and all of the creatures that were unaffected could be taken out in a second round of the same thing. Then your party sits around stabbing the monster with coups de graces while you fire a couple more Inner Struggles into the monster to keep it down for an hour and then go grab a sandwich.

That just seems like an auto-win for any situation.

[Draculmaulkee]

First off, I would like to say that this class is pure awesome. Thanks for making it.
I have 2 questions though...

1) I just made a first level Psychoanalst...and when he gains a level, what spell will he get? The entry for 2nd level seems to be blank. Is that intentional?

2) Fear as an at will spell at 5th level seems kind of overpowered. At that level not a whole lot of creatures appear to have fear immunity. Is there a specific reason for you placing it at that level (2 levels before the wizard! would normally be able to access it)?

[Judging__Eagle]

It's an At-Will, and doesn't actually beat enemies. Instead they run away.

As any long time dungeon crawler can tell you, fleeing enemies means a warned dungeon.

Also, at-will powers are weaker than selectable powers, since there are less options, and the power can't be changed, or replaced. The character has to learn to live with their power set.

A wizard, at a lower level than a sorcerer, can choose which spells they will cast; and they can change their mind every morning. A sorcerer has to wait, and gets locked into their spell selections.

The Analyst gets specific spells, but they won't work well in every situation. Also, Fear has an HD cap, so handing it out when it's useful is nice. After a few levels Fear loses some of it's oomph.

[Judging__Eagle]

It's an At-Will, and doesn't actually beat enemies. Instead they run away.

As any long time dungeon crawler can tell you, fleeing enemies means a warned dungeon.

Also, at-will powers are weaker than selectable powers, since there are less options, and the power can't be changed, or replaced. The character has to learn to live with their power set.

A wizard, at a lower level than a sorcerer, can choose which spells they will cast; and they can change their mind every morning. A sorcerer has to wait, and gets locked into their spell selections.

The Analyst gets specific spells, but they won't work well in every situation.

The 30' cone range also puts a bit of a damper on how much of a force multiplier this ability is.

[Draculmaulkee]

so...what are the 2nd, 19th, and 20th level spells?

[For Valor]

still... the scenario is:

You see a monster and smash it in the face with your subdual damage. 50% of monsters will be unconscious when this happens, as the subdual damage will (on average) exceed their HP. Even at low levels where you only get to use the ability once for 2d6, you're knocking out the average monster in a round or two.