The Gaming Den

Boolean wrote:Do we think Detect thoughts is approrpriate for Watcher? I'm contemplating replacing it.

With what? And yeah, if you can come up with something better then go for it.

Boolean wrote:How do we feel about opening up Ally spirits to non-animals form the Sumon nature's Ally list?

The only problem with it's current setup is the lack of any appropriate SM9 creatures.

Hunter - Scent, Bite (almost level-appropriate), Pounce (crazy good for about 1 round of combat).

Hunter is useful in the first round of combat (for pounce). I don't think that I have ever seen Scent used effectively, and a natural bite attack is just unimpressive.

Compare against Ally, which gives an extra token on the board, a natural bite attack (at least), and usually some other minor ability. At level three, compare the following things:

Scent, Bite (at (maxattack)-3 for d8+STR+1+PA damage), Pounce
against
Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, Scent
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares), fly 100 ft. (average)
Full Attack: 2 claws +6 melee (1d4+4) and bite +1 melee (1d8+2)
Skills: Listen +4, Spot +8

It just gets worse from there. At level 4, you can have Scent+Pounce+Rake+Improved Grab+3 attacks from a companion (assuming you even care about Scent). Hunter is strictly inferior to an animal companion.

Yeah; I can see your point, although personally I think Scent is pretty powerful at low to mid levels, as it auto-detects almost everything -- you still don't know where they are, but you can't be ambushed.

The original idea was that the animal-friending abilities would be more cumbersome, so hunter would be more effective than ally in situations where you were going into caves, swimming under waterfalls, or going elsewhere an animal companion might not be able to follow. The current way ally spirit can pop out new animals at will somewhat belies that, although hunter is obviously still preferable against foes that can easily shut down the animals.

Also, the groups I played in have a tendency to large running battles where one could Pounce repeatedly, and the sneak attack pounce opener is pretty powerful anyway.

EDIT: at the end fo the weekend, I'd like to submit the official version to Surgo; any feedback is welcome.

Seriously, just roll Hunter and Feral (removed 'silver' claws) together to get:

Feral Aspect: You have an enhancement bonus to strength and con, scent, pounce, and two claws (1d6 if medium) and a natural bite (1d8 if medium) with enhancement bonuses.

This makes it more decent, I would say even with the animal companion now. You have one or the other. Both offer extra hit points and 3 extra attacks. Pounce is comparable to having another piece on the board. It also weens off the dependency on taking TWF a bit, because you can have a shield in that other hand. It feels werewolfy though...

If you are looking to build another Aspect, DR, SR, and Fast Healing and not covered in the list of standard bonuses, but that may be a bit powerful when combined with others...

The Animal companion is *meant* to be better than feral though. The Animal is invalidated by a large number of potential conditions though -- it's useless against the flying, the invisible, the heavily DRed, the AoE death-effect throwing, in tight spaces, and so on. Feral is what you switch to when your animal is inappropriate.

Level 5 Same Game

A Basilisk

Kilgore almost certainly gets the drop on this. A Feral/Hunter Pounce *might* one-shot it. If not, he has a 40% chanceof exploding. However, I can also summon a Dire Wolf which can kill the basilisk *by itself* while I cower in the corner iwth my eyes closed. Of course, if it's lurking behind a door, I'm screwed. Probably Win

Large Fire Elemental

Natural weapons are out due to burning death. Archery takes like 7 rounds to kill it, during which time it runs me down and kills me. However, If I jump it with a Ranseur, I have a reasonable shot ot killing it before it kills me. Probable Loss.

Manticore on the Wing

Dies Horribly; Certain Defeat

Mummy

A Dire wolf and I take off half its health before the puppy falls. Then my Ranseur can finish it. I probably win, but get mummy rot. Even Match.

Phase Spider

It jumps me with a 30% chance of poisoning my ass. After that, my wolf and I ready actions; We kill it in 2 to 3 passes. Certain Win.

Troll:

Pouncing leads to swift death. I can send a wolf out, but it will die in 2 rounds. That lets me take off half its health before my horrible death.

A Chasm

I ride a hippogriff

A Moat of Acid

Hippogriff

Locked Door and Pit traps

I probably dodge the traps; the door can be busted open by me or a dire critter.

Centaur Archers

The first centaur gets pounce-ganked; the other is little threat. Certain Victory.

Howler/Allip

The Allip might kill me straight off. otherwise, I can outfight them. Even Match.

Pit full of medium scorpions.

They can't hit me except on 20s. I can kill 2 a round. Certain Win.

Tank with a wolf, and start shooting. Certain Win.

Cleric of Hextor (with zombies)

He's much more awesome than I am, but If he's unbuffed I can tak eoff most of his health with one pounce. Probable loss.

Results: On hte weak side at level 3. Access to more aspect would help.

Pouncing sucks. It's not nearly the bucket of damage I wanted. Plus, going without DEX means frequent death. Melee Ranger needs a serious power-up

Fire elementals don't fly.

But I also thought that a hippogriff wasn't a legal animal companion after all ('animals only'). So you call up a dire bat instead.

Good point on both accounts.

Incidentally, I've powered up the melee aspects a bit. I'm also considering merging Ally and Swarm, since Swarm alone seems extrememly marginal.

Watcher was lame, so I rewrote it.

So, It looks like I need one or two more aspects... sigh.

Cleaned up and did some minor edits here, but this is mostly just a bump.

Make the Wis-to-saves a replacement effect, because seriously, double-stacking stats on top of saves gives silly results. Other than that, very very good stuff.

Have you considered writing any PrC support for this class? It would kinda need it, and some funky PrCs designed for it would be very nice indeed.

Some ideas for rangers at 10+ (superhero range):

- A guy who basically messes with undead nature spirits, summoning them to his aid and cursing people with them
- A guy who calls up druid spells (a casty ranger, with some limits - spheres, perhaps?)
- The 'woodland champion' (slowly turn more and more plant-and-elemental-like)
- A beastmaster (someone who gets insanely uber nature summons - kinda like a natural version of the fiendbinder)
- A shapeshifter and Enemy Skill user (gets the ability to turn into an animal, and slowly gets more and more monster abilities)

How do these sound? I would be happy to help write them, if you wish.

DCs for the swarm aspect: need one for poison; should 'annoy' really be 10+Wis?

Might want to change skill bonuses to competence. Or not. The enhancement bonus is smaller and stacks with equipment.

Level 5 is already a breakpoint for the class. If you shift the benefits of the aspects to 1/3/6/9 or 1/4/6/8/10, there will be more incentive to keep with the class. Unfortunately, Evasion might not be enough to keep someone interested int level 7 if you do that...

the poison is on the normal DC schedule. Distraction has a low DC like all swarms.