TNE and centaurs: A moral tangent

[Ted the Flayer]

Here is how I rule it in my game:

If it's sentient, it's cannibalism. If its intelligence is below 3, it's not cannibalism.

Do you count dragon steaks as cannibalism?

I do indeed.

[Darth Rabbitt]

Yeah, in fantasy/sci-fi fiction I classify "cannibalism" as eating sapient creatures regardless of race.

[Ted the Flayer]

Also, minotaurs are cannibalistic, but will eat non-sentient meat if forced to.

[Avoraciopoctules]

Here is how I rule it in my game:

If it's sentient, it's cannibalism. If its intelligence is below 3, it's not cannibalism.

Do you count dragon steaks as cannibalism?

I do indeed.

Nice. A substantial minority of adventurers 'gonna get morally compromised, and I will just laugh at them if they complain.

[flare22]

Wait are minotaurs canibalistic even baring the question of wether they can even eat meat are your saying all minotaur nations have the same morals

[erik]

Here is how I rule it in my game:

If it's sentient, it's cannibalism. If its intelligence is below 3, it's not cannibalism.

I'm okay with that.

[flare22]

erik has a point Ted's rule of cannibalism defined by intelligence fails to address spells like feeble-mind and even if you ignore the spells that lower intelligence what about spells like awaken can i still eat cows if they have been awakened in short is it wrong to eat a creature that has become sentient and if so is it wrong to eat a creature that could become sentient. i think the easy solution is to use the textbook definition of cannibalism and say its only cannibalistic to eat a member of your own species.

[Kaelik]

I'm sorry, why the fuck is it even remotely not stupid to come up with a stupid new definition of cannibalism?

Is there some class that gives a fuck or something?

Why does it matter if eating sentient people who are not your species is called cannibalism or "eating sentient people who are not your species"?

[Ted the Flayer]

I might be wrong, but I was under the impression that Minotaurs weren't a culture/society, more like cursed humans that were "always chaotic evil" because of Baphomet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Minotaurs were kind of like gnolls in that regard.

[flare22]

I might be wrong, but I was under the impression that Minotaurs weren't a culture/society, more like cursed humans that were "always chaotic evil" because of Baphomet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Minotaurs were kind of like gnolls in that regard.

my bad i think your right ok let me put it differently instead of minotaurs lets use yak folk as an example of a race that are herbivores and probably have strange view regarding what its ok to eat considering they keep omnivores like humans and goblins as slaves what do you think they would allow there slaves to eat would they force them to become vegetarian that would cut food costs but without protein they would not be able to work as hard if the let them eat meat what would the feed them would they start herding cattle to feed the slaves? would they hunt or would they make the humans eat the goblins?

http://monstersandmanuals.blogspot.com/ ... -folk.html

[Prak]

Here is how I rule it in my game:

If it's sentient, it's cannibalism. If its intelligence is below 3, it's not cannibalism.

Here's how I see it:
Is it dead? Yes? Let's eat.

(my wizard that is considering taking Lahm's Finger Darts that I talk about in the It's Personal thread has been keeping the party fed with the meat of the enemies they kill. So far he has butchered and cooked goblin, gnoll, dire wolf, troll and wyvern. Possibly gith too, can't remember off the top of my head. What's great is that the paladin is perfectly ok with this, because he's not murdering people for food, he's just butchering slain enemies for meat.)

I might be wrong, but I was under the impression that Minotaurs weren't a culture/society, more like cursed humans that were "always chaotic evil" because of Baphomet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Minotaurs were kind of like gnolls in that regard.

Um. What? No. Damnit, stop heaping shit on an actual mythological figure whom some people follow that is merely a mystic hermaphrodite. Also, goat headed. Nothing to do with bulls. Minotaurs are just bovine people, just like gnolls are hyeanid people.

[flare22]

not sure about gnolls but he is right about the minotaurs being cursed
cultists at least in some well known settings for instance forgotten realms

[Prak]

Ok, that's weird. I really don't care about minotaurs (though I had never heard that origin), it's the Baphomet thing that pisses me off.

[flare22]

I'm sorry, why the fuck is it even remotely not stupid to come up with a stupid new definition of cannibalism?

Is there some class that gives a fuck or something?

Why does it matter if eating sentient people who are not your species is called cannibalism or "eating sentient people who are not your species"?

i guess we don't need to redefine cannibalism but the question remains is it ok for on sentient to eat another sentient even if its not cannibalism

[Prak]

Better question: Why is it wrong to eat a lump of meat that was able to communicate in a way we can understand when it was a moving lump of meat?

[Avoraciopoctules]

The yak folk thing is pretty interesting from a world-building perspective, but that's probably a different thread.
Here: http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=308214

[flare22]

to answer your question prak some cultures might find it unethical to eat the dead bodies of friends rather then say put them in a grave yard otherwise there would be not graveyards in dnd

your above mentioned party might not mind eating a dead goblins or gnolls i do not see any mention of your party eating dwarf elf human or gnome in that list and i bet your paladin would have an adverse reaction to your character broaching the subject of wether its ok to eat a fallen party member

in short morals and ethics vary from person to person and this applies to what is ok and not ok to eat

[RobbyPants]

I read a book like 10 years ago where centaur diets were pretty weird because they had 2 stomachs, and had to eat both horse food and regular person food. Was it a Narnia book? Maybe, it's been so long I really don't remember any more.

Yes. I don't remember which one specifically, but it was one of the later ones. I seem to remember the horse stomach requiring sugar and oats, or something like that.

[hyzmarca]

Better question: Why is it wrong to eat a lump of meat that was able to communicate in a way we can understand when it was a moving lump of meat?

Because that lump of meat will probably give you a horrible prion disease. Really, not eating other humans is just a good idea from a hygiene perspective, especially if that person died of natural causes.
The latter is true of any animal, really, which is why modern food standards organizations do not allow sick or dead animals to be butchered.

Eating people whom you personally murder is safer, but there are still plenty is diseases that you can get. This remains true when dealing with other sapients, as diseases can cross species. HIV exists because someone ate a chimp that has SIV, for example. Literally, if people didn't eat chimps then AIDS wouldn't exist.


So, eating your own species is dangerous.
Eating things that are closely related to you is also dangerous.
And eating things that weren't butchered in a safe and hygienic manner is also dangerous.

Butchering a sapient being in a safe and hygienic manner at least requires that you murder a healthy person.

[Prak]

to answer your question prak some cultures might find it unethical to eat the dead bodies of friends rather then say put them in a grave yard otherwise there would be not graveyards in dnd

That makes it impolite, not wrong.

Because that lump of meat will probably give you a horrible prion disease. Really, not eating other humans is just a good idea from a hygiene perspective, especially if that person died of natural causes.

That makes it unwise, not wrong.

Butchering a sapient being in a safe and hygienic manner at least requires that you murder a healthy person.

this is why Longpig uses bastard farms (cloning facilities) in Transmet.

[PoliteNewb]

Here is how I rule it in my game:

If it's sentient, it's cannibalism. If its intelligence is below 3, it's not cannibalism.

I'm okay with that.

Yeah, that opens up some pretty weird/stupid morals...like it being permissable to eat human babies, but not adult humans.

Ok, that's weird. I really don't care about minotaurs (though I had never heard that origin), it's the Baphomet thing that pisses me off.

Blame Gygax, or whoever wrote the 1st edition Monster Manual II. It presents a demon named Baphomet with a bull's head who is like the patron of minotaurs or something (haven't read it in a while). So while I'm sure you're correct about real-world religion, as far as D&D (Greyhawk) religion is concerned, Baphomet is a man-eating demon minotaur.

EDIT: Had a minute to check my MMII PDF.

Baphomet is the lord of minotaurs. His form is that of a huge bullheaded ogre. He is particularly hated by Yeenoghu, and the two are warring against each other.

He can also spew out unholy water on people, which is kinda cool.

[Darth Rabbitt]

You could very easily amend cannibalism to "eating sapients and/or non-sapient members of sapient species" and avoid the baby/feeble-minded issue.

That being said, I don't have a problem with cannibalism necessarily; a dead body's just a dead body.

Killing sapients just to eat them might be fucked up, but not any more so than killing people just to take their stuff (which is fairly common in D&D.)

[Ted the Flayer]

I believe that BoVD said it wasn't cannibalism if you didn't get off from it. So a dragon eating a human wasn't evil, and eating your dead as a funeral rite or out of desperation wouldn't be evil, but Jeffrey Dahmer would be smite-able.

[Shrapnel]

I might be wrong, but I was under the impression that Minotaurs weren't a culture/society, more like cursed humans that were "always chaotic evil" because of Baphomet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Minotaurs were kind of like gnolls in that regard.

Minotaurs have their own society/culture in Dragonlance, where they're kinda like pirate Klingons.

[Prak]

Yeah, I know that D&D has appropriated and besmearched Baphomet, and i really kind of fucking hate that.