Sacred Cow Cookout #2: Game Morality

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:44 am

I'd say that part of the reason that people like Belkar is the same reason that some people like Nny (and why Jhonen writes JtHM), it's a way to feed that little monster inside all of us without having to let it out. It's a way to vicariously experience the thrill of the kill and the thrill of being an evil little bastard and getting away with your deeds. Belkar does what, deep down, a lot of people wish they could, kill the bastards that piss them off and get in their way. Because it's all pretend, it's safe, and you can laugh at the things he does and say "that's so fucking messed up" and feel ok about yourself, because, even though you thought it was funny, you're an ok person because "It's fucked up, and I'm laughing at the over-the-top-ness, not the murder."

Bigode wrote:I'm very unsure about a significant part of the fanbase not actually wanting to be Belkar ...

y'know, except for the halfling bit, I'd love to be belkar.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:47 am

Look, all I'm saying that the tropes Heroic Sociopath and Moral Event Horizon shouldn't apply to two characters in the same comic.

I mean, Belkar chased down surrendering, unarmed goblins in order to kill them and the people love him. That should easily be an 'irredeemable monster you can't root for in any way' kind of activity right there, but he's not.

What's with the cognitive dissonance, people?

MH wrote:The part about smiling applies equally well to Belkar in either phase, actually. But I don't think there's really too many people liking Belkar who dislike Xykon - I'm almost sure Lago means that the setting treats them differently without that much reason, as opposed to the readers.

I was talking mostly about the readership. It's funny to see Belkar and Xykon's sociopathy get treated differently depending on what team they're working for, but it's a little bit disturbing if the author didn't intend for it to be. I'm not quite sure what Burlew was going for here so I'll restrain judgement on it.

However, the fact that these two characters get treated differently by the fanbase is what's irritating. Xykon shouldn't be any less irredeemable in the eyes of the fan than Belkar is but he is for some reason.

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:04 am

Ah, poor Belkar. He could use a good 4e conversion or perhaps just a trip to Rokugani.
ANYTHING where the inherent binding of the universe itself wasn't centered around juvenile interpretations of morality and behavior.

Look, the Evil of Killing People depends on two factors:

1) Is it a person?

2) What is evil?

Change any of the two and you're in the clear.
Either Polymorph the (supposedly pure and innocent) humanoid enemies Belkar kills, or turn him in to some gruesomely violent undead abomination. He'd probably love the latter out of efficiency.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:46 am

I have no idea exactly how the fanbase considers Xykon and Belkar, but I laugh at the antics of both.

Now, there are some crucial differences in the evil of Xykon & Belkar. Xykon's got goals, long-term ones at that, that span into an almost conceptual level of evil. Belkar works on the spur of the moment, motivated by self-enjoyment that he can experience. Thus, the ultimate scope of their respective destruction is vastly different, especially in the face of their power levels (melee vs caster).

It doesn't change the fact that if Belkar were to be given Xykon's power he wouldn't be just as bad, but he doesn't have said power. He's also manipulated enough by his party in these circumstances to roughly be more help than harm (overall, at least).

SunTzuWarmaster · Post by **SunTzuWarmaster** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:39 am

Just for the record, Xykon gets the best lines:
"Sacraficing minions, is there any problem it can't solve?"
"I have two words for goblin morale: goblin zombies"

Easily the best two one-liners for the series.
V gets the 3rd with http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0092.html

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:46 am

I caught up to date last night.

Opinion on recent events below. Click only if you've read the more recent OOTS episodes.

Belkar gets his justice. HE'S BACK AND BETTER THAN BEFORE! That kobold seer was a douche and I'm glad that "halfling god" got what's coming to him, and not as a result of anything alignment related; Remove Curse is like a Get Out Of Jail For Free card.

However, I am a bit pissed that they had to "find a Cleric". D&D class role bullshit.

virgileso wrote: It doesn't change the fact that if Belkar were to be given Xykon's power he wouldn't be just as bad, but he doesn't have said power. He's also manipulated enough by his party in these circumstances to roughly be more help than harm (overall, at least).

He would be Black Mage.
No.
Seriously.
Bitter Halfling Sorcerer that stabs people.

He could have at least been a Cleric. Namely, CoDzilla.
Imagine how many less personal problems Belkar would have had by now if he chose ANY full caster, really.