D20 Iron Age: Character Generation - Attributes

[Username17]

The 4e two-stat model for classes is salvageable, even if the way they implemented it is not. What it does is create a very natural system for "multiclassing" based on shared synergy. Also, it naturally channels characters into skill directions based on shared synergy. If Warlords get awesome powers based on Bigness and Smartness, they will be naturally inclined to grab multiclass powers off the Wizard list that exclusively or primarily use Smartness as opposed to Magicality. They will similarly invest in skills like Logistics and History that are Smartness dependent.

It makes there be basically no Paladin (Big/Favor) Wizard (Magic/Smart) multiclass option, which is an entirely defensible design choice. It means that as people develop system mastery, they will avoid making Sorcerers (Favor/Magic) who delve into athletics (Big) or legerdemain (Fast). Again, a defensible design choice.

-Username17

[Kaelik]

I'm a big fan of certain types of "multiclass" just not being open. Or other such things. And in this case, what I'm trying to do is set it up so that you can legitimize something like:

One or two high stats as attacks + everything else as mostly average.

Or

One or two high stats as attacks + a third stat pushed up high + two dumps stats.

So for example: Sorcerer Mcbob can, after making Magic his primary and Favored his Secondary:

1) Rely on Magic points + Favored to soak mental/magic attacks and invest leftover character points into Either Fast or Big to as high as he can get, to raise his physical defenses. Using the other one and Smart as dumps.

2) increase both Big and Fast, but use Smart as a dump. So mediocre soak and avoidance for physical, but only magical soak.

3) Raise Big/Fast/Smart equally.

And have all those be legitimate options.

In fact, I'll lay out the character gen plan now:

Different races grant different Arrays:

All Arrays follow these rules:

1) Maximum stat for that level (IE if level 1 characters are 1-10, one 10.)
2) One stat only slightly lower, the lower this stat, the better the total array value.
3) Races vary in being generalists versus specialists in other stats. Prestiges/Specials more likely to be specialists.

So for example:

Level 1:

Orc: 10/7/5/5/5
Human: 10/8/5/4/4
Elves: 10/8/6/4/3
Kobolds: 10/8/6/5/2
Myrmidons: 10/9/5/3/3

At Tier ups I think you would get a bonus to distribute if you ranked up your character, or other Tiers start higher. But your bonuses would be distributed in a X/Y/Z manner, where X and Y are your bonus to main stat and secondary, and Z is distributed however you want in the third tier.

So: hitting Fantasitc Tier, an Orc just gets a bonus of 2/2/2 to spread out.
A human on the other hand can:

1) gain 2/2/1
2) Become an Ogre, thus setting a new array of: 12/11/5/4/4

Or something like that.

[Username17]

Racial stat bonuses or stat maximums are a horrible idea in a level based game. While they are salvageable in a skill based setup (where the game is balanced around the idea that there are no tasks that a character of a specific power level will necessarily be able to perform at any specific level of competence), in a level based setup it is the sad but unavoidable fact that if any race gets a bonus to Smartness then no character is level appropriate unless they are one of those races if they are of a Smartness class. Take heed from the failures of 4th edition: Orbizards are Gnomes or some bullshit race you've never heard of called a "Deva." Racial stat minimums can only be accepted if you can still manage to get the maximum amount in completely unrelated attributes.

-Username17

[Kaelik]

Racial stat bonuses or stat maximums are a horrible idea in a level based game. While they are salvageable in a skill based setup (where the game is balanced around the idea that there are no tasks that a character of a specific power level will necessarily be able to perform at any specific level of competence), in a level based setup it is the sad but unavoidable fact that if any race gets a bonus to Smartness then no character is level appropriate unless they are one of those races if they are of a Smartness class. Take heed from the failures of 4th edition: Orbizards are Gnomes or some bullshit race you've never heard of called a "Deva." Racial stat minimums can only be accepted if you can still manage to get the maximum amount in completely unrelated attributes.

-Username17

????

What does that have to do with the above?

Those stat set ups are arrays. So yes, you have a racial "maximum" that happens to be exactly identical for every single race.

The point is that an Orc Paladin is going to have:

Big 10
Fast 5
Smart 5
Favored 7
Magical 5

Or switch Big and Favored depending on what type of Paladin he wants to be.

A Human on the other hand, would be:

Big 10
Fast 4
Smart 5
Favored 8
Magical 4

I don't know where you are getting "racial maximums or bonuses" from.

[Username17]

That's not functional either. Being better at stuff you do is always going to be better than being better at stuff you don't do. The Human you got there is better at using some of his Paladin abilities, and that makes him a more powerful character. "Level Appropriate" Paladins will thus be Humans and not Orcs, which makes Orcs underpowered.

You could potentially have a system where one race was a Jack-o-Trades race where they had a really shitty 4th and 5th stat to make up for a high 3rd stat (and thus better multiclassing options), while another race had mediocre stats for their 3rd through 5th pick (and thus, better defenses).

But if you give people the option of higher or lower prime stats, even secondary prime stats, the choice of "lower" is the short bus or sandbagging option. Orbizards are Gnomes or Devas. They are not Eladrin or Tieflings, even though those races get an Int bonus.

-Username17

[Kaelik]

That's not functional either. Being better at stuff you do is always going to be better than being better at stuff you don't do. The Human you got there is better at using some of his Paladin abilities, and that makes him a more powerful character. "Level Appropriate" Paladins will thus be Humans and not Orcs, which makes Orcs underpowered.

You could potentially have a system where one race was a Jack-o-Trades race where they had a really shitty 4th and 5th stat to make up for a high 3rd stat (and thus better multiclassing options), while another race had mediocre stats for their 3rd through 5th pick (and thus, better defenses).

But if you give people the option of higher or lower prime stats, even secondary prime stats, the choice of "lower" is the short bus or sandbagging option. Orbizards are Gnomes or Devas. They are not Eladrin or Tieflings, even though those races get an Int bonus.

-Username17

I don't think that's even a remotely fair statement given that you have no idea what secondary abilities do. If you have a bunch of attacks that do mostly stuff off the primary stat, that's different than having the second stat be super important.

It could be that you can just pick Big powers that have secondary abilities in which -1 Favored isn't really important.

I'm not actually sure how I even want the secondary abilities to even work with attacks.

But regardless, those arrays are only preliminary, and are obviously going to be totally fucked up once I can figure out exactly what range is appropriate, and how secondary stats interact with primaries.

[Kaelik]

Okay, so I need some brief help:

Big is not a good stat name for the stat. It would be great, but I also have a quality "size" in character creation that acts as a sixth attribute, and I don't want to make it confusing.

Big will be acting as "tough" when it comes to defenses, but I can't imagine how tough can be adding to attacks.

Any ideas on a good name?

[Judging__Eagle]

Bulk?

Brawn?

Beef?

oddly enough.... they're all B words. Brawn is probably best.

honeslty, I sometimes use references when I write, and definitely when I have to draw/model/sketch/texture:

http://thesaurus.reference.com/

or http://www.rhymezone.com/

just some copy-pasta

arm, brawn, flesh, force, heftiness, meat, might, muscle, physique, power, robustness, sinew, steam, strength, thew, vigor

Vigor is also decent, as is physique.

[Username17]

Strength is a pretty good word for bigness.

-Username17

[erik]

I've been a fan of Might, Brawn or Toughness when describing a strength&constitution stat.

[Utterfail]

I prefer might. It even adjectivises well.

[Kaelik]

Well, I didn't want D&D attribute names, and it needs to fit the same style as the others, IE fast, smart, ect. So it's going to be strong.

[CatharzGodfoot]

I'm a fan of "Physique", but "Beef" is pretty good too.