I want to get my rage on.

[TOZ]

I've always thought it best to never hit a lady, but be sure to beat a bitch.

[Username17]

I couldn't even read Exalted 2nd Edition. The opening blurb is an anti-science creationist rant and I just put the book down.

Interestingly, I found the source of the Blade Barrier argument. The AD&D PHB talks about the blades circling a character, implying that it could be used to defend yourself as you moved around. The AD&D DMG presents the bonus secret rule that the barrier doesn't move and references to it moving in the PHB are misleading flavor text.

So reprints of the spell in later editions ad works based on the PHB writeup have been variously explicit about it moving because that's what the original spell description said it did. But Gygax himself didn't let it follow people around.

-Username17

[Lago PARANOIA]

I couldn't even read Exalted 2nd Edition. The opening blurb is an anti-science creationist rant and I just put the book down.

You mean this one?

Do not believe what the scientists tell you. The natural history we know is a lie, a falsehood sold to us by wicked old men who would make the world a dull gray prison and protect us from the dangers inherent to freedom. They would have you believe our planet to be a lonely starship, hurtling through the void of space, barren of magic and in need of a stern hand upon the rudder.

Close your mind to their deception. The time before our time was not a time of senseless natural struggle and reptilian rage, but a time of myth and sorcery. It was a time of legend, when heroes walked Creation and wielded the very power of the gods. it was a time before the world was bent, a time before the magic of Creation was lessened, a time before the soulds of men became the stunted, withered things they are today.

This is the story of that time.

THIS IS THE STORY OF EXALTED.


Get back in there, you fucking pussy. The book gets much worse than that. If you can't handle some woo-worshipping ranting then how are you you going to handle some HARDCORE HEROIC FANTASY, Frank?!

[Silent Wayfarer]

Exalted is also the game of epic setting-mechanic disconnect. The combat system is shit to begin with and only gets shittier as you progress in Essence/levels/what have you.

It mainly suffers from Vampire's Invincible Elders problem. Plus the fanbase is full of twelve year olds.

[MGuy]

Story of religious oppression, disease, and massacre?

[Koumei]

Exalted ruins relationships*. True story time:

One of my friends in Canadia was engaged to a guy. Now, they'd frequently argue and shit, and he didn't think that was a problem - he figured it was pretty much normal to be arguing a lot.

She ended up breaking it off. But basically the first factor she mentioned? Exalted. She hates that game so much, thanks to her regular group who are obsessed to the point of "We only play Exalted, and when something epic happens in one game it becomes canon history for all the other ones". She didn't like it much to begin with, being more of a BESM, Freeform and Rifts fan.

But all his characters were the same, and he basically used stock footage special attacks, like in Sailor Moon. Yes really. Know how you get stunt dice for talking too much? He had three attacks he'd always use, and would re-use them through all his characters, complete with special effects. If it were over IRC/forums, he would have been accused of Copy+Pasta.

So a leading cause of the break-up was his way of playing Exalted combined with her dislike of the system. Exalted ruins relationships.

Warn your relatives.

*Compare Vampire, where apparently every girl Frank has ever had sex with has played Vampire with him. So, when dating+roleplayan, never do Exalted, do Vampire.

[shadzar]

I've always thought it best to never hit a lady, but be sure to beat a bitch.

Only if the bitch doesn't has my money. :pimp:

[Psychic Robot]

I've always thought it best to never hit a lady, but be sure to beat a bitch.

My sensibilities are offended, good sir! How dare you suggest such a thing.

[Draco_Argentum]

THIS IS THE STORY OF EXALTED.

Huh, you know I never even read that.

[TOZ]

My sensibilities are offended, good sir! How dare you suggest such a thing.

I dare say so, my good man, for I believe this to be a forum of intellectuals. The fine patrons of this establishment should have the wit to determine between a woman of virtue and a baseborn whore. *monocle*

[hogarth]

Interestingly, I found the source of the Blade Barrier argument. The AD&D PHB talks about the blades circling a character, implying that it could be used to defend yourself as you moved around. The AD&D DMG presents the bonus secret rule that the barrier doesn't move and references to it moving in the PHB are misleading flavor text.

Frank, what the fuck are you talking about? I like how you didn't quote the PHB spell description because it says nothing at all about circling a character. It says it's a wall with blades circling around "an immobile point".

Why are you resorting to lying now? Or are you talking about 2E or some other shit?

[Lago PARANOIA]

Why are you resorting to lying now? Or are you talking about 2E or some other shit?

If you're not sure, why are you accusing Frank of lying?

Seriously, in Internet discussion, calling someone a liar and meaning it is one of the worst insults possible; you should never pull that one out unless you're 100% sure of what you're saying. Because if you accuse someone of lying and they're not, then you're a grade-A sniveling douchebag.

So dropping the 'l' bomb and then trying to leave a 'oh, so that's what you mean' escape hatch is unspeakably cowardly shit. I really had a higher opinion of you than that; guess I was wrong.

[hogarth]

Why are you resorting to lying now? Or are you talking about 2E or some other shit?

If you're not sure, why are you accusing Frank of lying?

Seriously, in Internet discussion, calling someone a liar and meaning it is one of the worst insults possible; you should never pull that one out unless you're 100% sure of what you're saying. Because if you accuse someone of lying and they're not, then you're a grade-A sniveling douchebag.

So dropping the 'l' bomb and then trying to leave a 'oh, so that's what you mean' escape hatch is unspeakably cowardly shit. I really had a higher opinion of you than that; guess I was wrong.

Just for fun, I checked the 2E PHB (despite the fact that this thread is about 1E AD&D and Frank was talking about 'original sources') it doesn't say anything about circling a character either.

Frank is just lying about that wording being in the AD&D PHB. Don't believe me? Look it up for yourself here, page 51:

http://john-cox.com/PDF/adnd/TSR2010%20 ... ndbook.pdf

[Lago PARANOIA]

Hey, call Frank a liar all you want, just don't try to preemptively weasel your way out of your accusation on the case that you're proven wrong.

If you had left out the 'Or are you talking about 2E or some other shit' part I would've kept my ugly trap shut.

[Roy]

I also know you rage about the Paizils; I may have ended up talking to you on the Brilliant Gameologists forum.

They're always a source of fuck ups. But it's always the same ones, they aren't doing anything new or different. So while they are doing an admirable job feeding my contempt for humanity by constantly acting in a sub human manner, they aren't actually making me rage anymore, because getting mad at them for being completely incompetent is like getting mad at a cat for anything - it's a stupid wild animal, and the stuff that can't be chalked up to that can be attributed to laziness and/or spite. Don't like it, use it as a shot put. Otherwise it's just going to sit there and exploit everything near it.

Interestingly, I found the source of the Blade Barrier argument. The AD&D PHB talks about the blades circling a character, implying that it could be used to defend yourself as you moved around. The AD&D DMG presents the bonus secret rule that the barrier doesn't move and references to it moving in the PHB are misleading flavor text.

So reprints of the spell in later editions ad works based on the PHB writeup have been variously explicit about it moving because that's what the original spell description said it did. But Gygax himself didn't let it follow people around.

-Username17

So in other words, it leads the player to think you could run around with blades circling you. Except they can't, because they don't move. So you try it. Much lulz are had, as the highly experienced spellcaster doesn't know what the fuck their own magic does.

And this is why you shouldn't play editions earlier than 3rd.

[shadzar]

The cleric employs this spell to set up a wall of circling, razor-sharp blades. These whirl and flash in endless movement around an immobile point.

immobile

Blade Barrier: This spell is absolutely stationary. It does not move in any way except with respect to the circling of the blades around the fixed point of the spell center. The plane of rotation of the blades can be horizontal, vertical, or anything in between, however.

absolutely stationary

The priest employs this spell to set up a wall of circling, razor-sharp blades. These whirl and flash around a central point, creating an immobile barrier.

Copyright 1999 TSR Inc.

immobile

...Just for anyone's reference that cares.....

[Roy]

Oh yeah, and if anyone wants anything to rage about still, 4.Fail is over there. Just talk to anyone you see there, and let the rage boil within.

I'll be waiting with the napalm in case any escape.

[God_of_Awesome]

My sensibilities are offended, good sir! How dare you suggest such a thing.

I dare say so, my good man, for I believe this to be a forum of intellectuals. The fine patrons of this establishment should have the wit to determine between a woman of virtue and a baseborn whore. *monocle*

You bastard. Belgium was neutral!

*put on warstache*

I'm gonna get you.

[Judging__Eagle]

Frank, Lago,

I was just reading the Exalted Blurb, and my brother was reading it as well.

His question is:

"what is the point of saying that today is bullshit, and that you have to escape to a land of myth and fantasy in order to play it?"

This is coming from someone who can make money playing his WoW account, and talks with people who do make money selling either highly geared characters, or very rare in-game items.

The people who try to power-game and find every way possible to be better at the game. People who modify the view settings so that they can see much further around them (since WoW is very much an FPS in terms of how important view distance is).

And his question, is why do you have to shit on today, in order to sell a game? What do you possibly gain?

He knows what a fun game's effects are, and he wants to know why people would want to live exclusively in that fantasy bullshit only.

Do you have any sort of answers?

[Josh_Kablack]

Some White Wolf stuff makes me rage, usually the essays written by the Fukken Freelancers (esp. the foreword to Aberrant Player's Guide and Exalted Player's Guide)..

1. I want author names here, I may know these people.

2. While loads of what WW shovels is outright manure (including at least one book with my name on it) raging against the WW freelancer authors is sad. It's like raging against the guy flippin' burgers at McDonalds - except the job at Mcd's pays more per hour, is steady work, had better odds of advancement, and didn't require a hundred hours of volunteer uncredited work to get into. Seriously. Rage on the end product, but don't hate the guys who ignorantly think working as an RPG author would be a dream job.

[Username17]

1. I want author names here, I may know these people.

It is importantly true that working as an RPG writer is a shitty job unless you get to be one of the "stars" like Andy Collins, and even then the access to groupies you get is decidedly subpar when compared even to being a drummer in a punk band.

But OK, here are the people at White Wolf who make things that suck:

• Justin Achilli
  Christopher Kobar
  Greg Stolze
  Chuck Wendig
  Howard Ingham
  Genevieve Podleski
  Carl Bowen
  Geoff Grabowski
  Mathew Mcfarland
  Jame Kiley
  Bill Bridges
  Oscar Garza

-Username17

[Orion]

Let me just say that in my experience Exalted solo games are a big hit with the ladies. Much of the imbalance becomes irrelevant.

[souran]

Honestly, guys, raging against exalted flavor text is really dumb. Are you pissed off at conan stories too because hyborea takes place "after the fall of atlantis but before the rise of the sons of darius"

If you are going to do that, then get some nerd rage on by reading the stupid shit novilzed versions of ANY of these games.

Shadowrun, D&D (any edition), exalted, white wolf, warhammer their "novel line" is garbage. Its not like its cheap pulpy like guys like hienlien or asimov or niven used to write. Its just crap, written to be produced like clockwork with a new novel available at borders every 2 weeks.

If you think that these guys can't write rules for crap wait till you see a few of them try and write novels!


As for games,

Mechwarrrior second edition is shadowrun 2nd edition with no magic, no matrix, and no cyberware and one of your options in the "select what is important to you" stage of character creation is your mech. The game is horrid.


I am suprised nobody has listed alternity as a game of uber nerd rage. Its rules are terrible and all 3 settings produced for it were stupid beyond imagining.

The old westwood/westend? games star wars was pretty bad. The game rules were both boring and often confusing. Also, before d20 starwars the game was controlled by people who thought that nobody ever should get to be a jedi and that han solo was the only character anybody would want to play.

There are some japanese rpgs that explore the bounds of terrible. I never played "regular" sword world but I had a japanophile friend who had either the gundam or robotech rpgs when we where in high school. They used the sword world/2d6 whatever thing you can read about on wikipedia.

That system blows hard and it will create levels of rage that are unbelievable.

Riddle of steel proves why "simulationists" and "historians" should not be allowed to make rpgs that are not teaching tools. The game is slow beyond belief and everybody is more fragile than a 1e dnd character. Only in this game you don't die, you just become a blinded crippled beggar and your still technically not dead meaning its sort of game masters choice to let you reroll or not.

However, the most unplayable and rage inducing game I ever had the misfortune to purchase was "crossroads at eternity." I let a friend talk me into buying it at a convention. That friend liked the chief artists artwork.

The game has a terrible backstory. The writers admit that they basically stole elements of vampre, werewolf, exalted, fogotten realms, vampire hunter D, star wars, and the x-files and just hit the blend button and swollowed the results.

The game used a system "sort of " like white wolf for skills, but a system "sort of" like D&D for ability and combat scores.

Oh yeah, they also like final fantasy and so they tried to build a pen and paper version of its combat resolution engine.

So, the weapons do tens to hundreds of points of damage, players begin with a couple of hundred hit points and grow to several thousand. Armor has both a element that increases the chance of negating hits and absorbs a fraction of the damage. Unfortunatly the absorbation percentange is not held to quarters halves and thirds, but instead is simply 1 to 100% and slows combat to a crawl.

Its the only game I have ever played where one of the "helpful hint" boxes in the combat section ever recommended that you have a calcualtor to play and even more helpfully EVERY PLAYER brings a calculator.

I have an idea, why don't we play a system that works instead?

[CatharzGodfoot]

I am suprised nobody has listed alternity as a game of uber nerd rage. Its rules are terrible and all 3 settings produced for it were stupid beyond imagining.

I enjoyed all of the Dark•Matter games I played in, but I don't remember any of the rules beyond the fact that some of my D&D gaming friends still shout "Amazing success!" when they roll natural ones.

[souran]

I am suprised nobody has listed alternity as a game of uber nerd rage. Its rules are terrible and all 3 settings produced for it were stupid beyond imagining.

I enjoyed all of the Dark•Matter games I played in, but I don't remember any of the rules beyond the fact that some of my D&D gaming friends still shout "Amazing success!" when they roll natural ones.

I had fun at a few sessions of alternatity. I seriously tried to run the space cowboys game.

I had a friend who ran dark matter. The problem was we could never really agree if we were playing a game that was supposed to be x-files, ghost busters, or whats best described as "ghost hunters"

However, I just have to ask

Did you stop the sand-shifter people and their lizardman overlords from taking over the world or did the men-in-black alien invasion happen first or was the world destroyed by unleashing of the blood devil/quasi vampire thingies?

Also, while I had the worst experince I have ever had in an rpg playing alternatity/dark matter.

We were in mountains in a national park and we had to leave our car and hike 10 miles to a cave to investigate the cave. So we did that.

Then the game master announces that since it has gotten dark we have to make navigation rolls to find our way back to our car and the hotel for the night. As we were expecting city/investigative adventurers we didn't happen to have anybody who had the navigation skill line.

So we get hopelessly lost. We decide to wait till daylight becuase during the day we didn't have to make navigation checks. Except the gamemater tells us we are now so lost we have to. So we roll dice for a quater of an hour, trying to get enough successes in a row to find our way out. After 15 minutes I asked the game master "are we going to encounter anything for being lost?"
"no" he says
"Does our being lost have anything to do with our investigation, the storyline, magic, aliens, ghosts or anything?"
"no, you guys just need to make the rolls to find the car again"
So I told everybody playing that I was leaving to go play video games and if it was not to late when somebody rolled 3 1's in a row they could call me and I would come back. amazingly our next roll found the car even thought it was clearly a failure. It didn't matter though. By that time everybody was so done with the game that we didn't notice when one of our party memebers stated he was going to hold up a convience store because he wanted to fight swat team members with his assault rifle.
Sometimes there is no recovering for crappy dming.