"Less Basic RPG", a game based on BFRPG

[CatharzGodfoot]

Since you're going for simplicity, you could just tone down the other races. Here's a (probably poor) attempt:

Dwarves:
[*]Speed 25'
[*]Low-light vision
[*]Never slowed by armor or encumbrance.
Elves:
[*]Speed 35'
[*]Ignore difficult terrain
Gnomes:
[*]Small
[*]Speed 25'
[*]Low-light vision
Halflings:
[*]Small
[*]Speed 30'
Humans:
[*]Speed 30'
[*]Gain an extra proficiency (skill, armor, shield, or weapon)
Orcs:
[*]Speed 30'
[*]Infravision

[Lokathor]

Dwarf looks good, as does Elf. Orcs are finally as "scary" as they're kinda supposed to be, because now they're the only player race which can see in the dark without need of any light at all, which it totally ninja, particularly about a game where you break into underground tunnel complexes. Humans are also pretty cool, because they can pick up an out of class skill, which makes them fancy and special.

Gnomes and Halflings though... I'm not so sure on. I've been playing a Whisper Gnome Beguiler in a game a little bit lately, and really been having fun with the 30ft movement speed while small, so that's kinda cool. If the Gnome and Halfling blocks were swapped I'd probably feel better about it, because Halflings are "supposed to be slower than humans" in my mind.

Depending on what "Small" does, then both races also are a little lame. +1 AC and +1 Attacks is cool, +2 or +4 to Hide/Stealth is cool. Super reduced carrying capacity isn't so cool, and having to use small weapons isn't so cool either. Hmm.

I really don't see a huge difference between the Halfling and the Gnome though. The 3e Forest Gnome gets "Talk to animals" as an ability. If gnomes can't have an illusion power, maybe they could have the animal speech power? I'd hate to drop the gnome. The reason I picked those specific races as the core races was because those are the races available in the Munchkin card game (which is, incidentally, why the Orc was given such a seemingly odd power).

[violence in the media]

So Fighters get +4 on Fort saves and +3 against Fear effects (for example), and they just get that at level 1 and then those numbers don't grow later on? Okay that works. I thought at first that you'd give out +2 at first, then +2 later, and spread it across levels.

I don't know that I'd dole these things out at 1st level if you're going to allow for multiclassing, but that is the basic idea. The +3 vs. [whatever] that fighters get at 3rd level is what makes experienced fighters known for being resistant to [whatever]. The general increases in saves as a result of levels is what makes a 7th level fighter or 10th level cleric more resistant to [anything] than a 3rd level fighter.

[CatharzGodfoot]

Dwarf looks good, as does Elf. Orcs are finally as "scary" as they're kinda supposed to be, because now they're the only player race which can see in the dark without need of any light at all, which it totally ninja, particularly about a game where you break into underground tunnel complexes. Humans are also pretty cool, because they can pick up an out of class skill, which makes them fancy and special.

That's good to hear.

Gnomes and Halflings though... I'm not so sure on. I've been playing a Whisper Gnome Beguiler in a game a little bit lately, and really been having fun with the 30ft movement speed while small, so that's kinda cool. If the Gnome and Halfling blocks were swapped I'd probably feel better about it, because Halflings are "supposed to be slower than humans" in my mind.

Depending on what "Small" does, then both races also are a little lame. +1 AC and +1 Attacks is cool, +2 or +4 to Hide/Stealth is cool. Super reduced carrying capacity isn't so cool, and having to use small weapons isn't so cool either. Hmm.

I really don't see a huge difference between the Halfling and the Gnome though. The 3e Forest Gnome gets "Talk to animals" as an ability. If gnomes can't have an illusion power, maybe they could have the animal speech power? I'd hate to drop the gnome. The reason I picked those specific races as the core races was because those are the races available in the Munchkin card game (which is, incidentally, why the Orc was given such a seemingly odd power).

I was going by the 3e reinvention of halflings as little acrobats rather than reskinned hobbits.

The gnome hide bonus would be excessive if the +4 size bonus is still there. I was thinking of giving the gnomes 'talk with animals', but didn't. If gnomes are of the classic 'Garl Glittergold' type (pygmy dwarves), it seems weird to give the ability to talk with animals to them and not elves.

Forest gnomes would work, though. They can be even more 'nature-boy-ey' than elves.

You could also make dwarves small (as they are in 1e & 2e), and this would create some nice symmetry. The problem would be keeping dwarves from being 'the master race'.

I don't know that I'd dole these things out at 1st level if you're going to allow for multiclassing, but that is the basic idea. The +3 vs. [whatever] that fighters get at 3rd level is what makes experienced fighters known for being resistant to [whatever]. The general increases in saves as a result of levels is what makes a 7th level fighter or 10th level cleric more resistant to [anything] than a 3rd level fighter.

If you allow multiclassing, just use zero-sum modifiers.

[Lokathor]

I don't know that I'd dole these things out at 1st level if you're going to allow for multiclassing, but that is the basic idea. The +3 vs. [whatever] that fighters get at 3rd level is what makes experienced fighters known for being resistant to [whatever]. The general increases in saves as a result of levels is what makes a 7th level fighter or 10th level cleric more resistant to [anything] than a 3rd level fighter.

Multiclassing or not.... That's a hard choice. I think I'll go with "no multiclassing" though, and then I can just write some more classes later on for things that are missing. "nethack style", so to speak. It's probably easier to keep a hold on everything that way.

I would like to have at least some minor Save modifiers at 1st level, even if most of the save mods came later on. Perhaps every class gets +2 against one save category at 1st, and then their saves start either improving or spreading out at 3rd and higher level? For example, the 1st level Rogue gets +2 against traps (which generally use a reflex save), but eventually ends up with +4 on all reflex saves later on. Something like that you think? Because a large portion of the game world is only 1st and 2nd level anyways.

I was going by the 3e reinvention of halflings as little acrobats rather than reskinned hobbits.

The gnome hide bonus would be excessive if the +4 size bonus is still there. I was thinking of giving the gnomes 'talk with animals', but didn't. If gnomes are of the classic 'Garl Glittergold' type (pygmy dwarves), it seems weird to give the ability to talk with animals to them and not elves.

Forest gnomes would work, though. They can be even more 'nature-boy-ey' than elves.

You could also make dwarves small (as they are in 1e & 2e), and this would create some nice symmetry. The problem would be keeping dwarves from being 'the master race'.

Small dwarves means that they also get small weapons and small carrying capacity, and really does make them a master race when you can avoid the carrying capacity issue (lots of Mules or something). I think they work better as just slow and steady medium creatures.

And yeah, gnomes have always struck me as a very plant and animal associated race more than a "smaller dwarf" race, and animal speech is a cool power. As a kid I would hear about lawn gnomes and garden gnomes, so I thought of them as something like a fat pixie that couldn't fly, or perhaps a smaller and even more opulent version of hobbits that lived in something like a shire.

Also, is there a name I can use for the main races that helps separate them from other humanoids? Something like "Metahuman" or "Name Giver" or something like that would be cool. Some sort of mild explanation for why goblins aren't on the good list but gnomes are on the good list might be nice, even though both of them can be just as good or evil.

So here's an example run of the new complete Races section.

Races
In this game, people don't really have different bloodlines when they're from another nation or their parents were from another nation. Instead, they're just completely a different species. This lets you use all kinds of stereotypes if you want without being nearly as racist. At least, not as obviously racist.

In LBRPG, all the main races that you can play as are humanoid creatures that start out fairly weak compared to most of the world's monsters, but they have the ability to become powerful through training and adventuring.

Effects of Size:
[*]Medium Size: Medium creatures don't have any adjustments for their size.
[*]Small Size: Small creatures get +1 to Attacks and AC, and +2 to Hide checks. They also have to use smaller weaponry and they can only carry 3/4ths as much as a medium creature.

Languages:
Each race can speak two langauges: it's own language as well as "Common", which is a simple language used mostly for trade. Humans don't actually have a language of their own, and other races often regard them as being slightly silly because of their use Common as a primary language instead of some other "real language". Humans also learn a second language though, and they get to pick what their extra language is. They can pick any language, even a non-humanoid one. Don't forget that the adventuring classes also gives you two langaues, so as long as you're not a peasent you can speak four langauges instead of just two.

Human
Humans are the same humans that we all know and (hopefuly) love. You can generally assume that humans in LBRPG look like humans do in the modern age, even though in real life Iron Age humans were acually a lot shorter and stuff because of genetics and because they never really had enough food. Humans don't live quite as long as the other main races (usualy less than 100 years), and so they're more easily tempted to strike out into the wilds and adventure around in search of quick power and glory.
[*]Medium Size
[*]30ft move speed
[*]Humans gain 1 extra proficiency (Skill, Armor, Shield, or Weapon).


Elf
Elves are a long lived (300+ years) and fairly nomadic race. These two traits combined mean that elves aren't what most people would call brave. They are more often willing to move on and rebuild in a new location than risk their lives trying to reclaim a territory that seems lost. The world is covered over with old elvish camps and ruins. Though not every elf knows about every place, it's a pretty good bet that at least some elves probably know about most every place.

Elves are about 5'6" tall to 6' tall, and they're usually thin and lightweight for their height. Even a very strong elf that's 6' tall isn't likely to weigh in excess of 150 pounds or so. An elf is considered to be an adult once they're 20 years old, and it is elf custom among many tribes that the elf then spends the next 20 years or so of their life among the other races learning about other cultures, and how other cultures have changed over time, before returning home to share what they have learned. It is thought that this gives the elf the flexability of mind to allow them to grow properly and lead the next generaion of elves.
[*]Medium Size
[*]35ft move speed
[*]Elves always ignore difficult terrain (both tactical and overland).


Dwarf
Dwarves are a short and stocky race of people who like to live just underground in cities built up around a fortress. When a fortress is strong enough, it will send out a caravan of settlers to go found a new fortress that will grow until it is strong enough to in turn send out settelers of its own. Dwarven fortresses are usually carved into the local terrain with only minimal sections being built above ground, and ancient abandoned fortress complexes are a popular place for adventurers.

Physically, Dwarves are usually only 4'6" to 5' tall, and they're generally quite stocky and sturdy for a creature of their height, often weighting between 110lbs and 190lbs. Dwarves can usually live to the age of 180 or s, but they are considered adults within dwarven society at the age of 12. Despite often living underground, a dwarf's skin does not naturally become pale from a lack of sunlight until they become very old (in excess of 150 years). Dwarves usually take very good care of their hair, and dwarven males often have a great deal of pride for their beards. Dwarves actually work and function better on alcaholic drinks than on pure water, and so they often have a bit of a bad reputation in that area among the other races.
[*]Medium Size
[*]25ft move speed, but now slowed by armor or encumberance.
[*]Low-Light vision.


Halfling
HALFLING CULTURE INFO HERE

Halflings are about 3' to 3'6" tall, and they weigh about 35 to 40 pounds. They're fairly athletic for their size, and they can easily keep up with a human when traveling. They usually have lighter skin and blond or brown hair.
[*]Small Size
[*]30ft move speed.


Gnome
GNOME CULTURE INFO HERE

Gnomes are on the very small end of the "Small Size" range. They're generally about 2'1" to 2'6" tall and 25 to 35 pounds. Most people don't quite notice though, because gnomes are so often found wearing their traditional pointed hat when they're in public. Gnomes have a fair amount of bushy and fluffy hair, but usually only in shades of gray and white even for a very young gnome of only 25 years. Gnomes usually eat plants and grains and things that you can cook from plants and grains. They especially enjoy either sweet or bitter foods, and a gnomish village will frequently bother with the hastle of bee-keeping just to secure a steady supply of honey.
[*]Small Size
[*]25ft move speed.
[*]Gnomes can naturally speak with forest creatures, though the conversation is usually limited by the animal's intelligence.


Orc
Orcs are tough looking guys that can see perfectly well in the dark out to a good distance. This makes them pretty scary, because even the races with Low-Light vision need limited light sources to see, so you can tell where they are from far away at night. Orcs can just sneak up on you in the darkness with no warning. They're naturally a little aggressive, and even in good care they only live to be slightly older than humans (~110 years). This makes them prime cannidates to go out and hunt for treasure in the places that other people usually aren't willing to go.

Orcs are about the height of a human, and only slightly heavier. They have skin in various shades of green, a pair of tusks on their jaw, and dark brown or black hair. Orcs are omnivores, but they usually prefer meats over plants, and they can also even eat raw meat without getting sick. Orcs are fairly resistant to both harsh weather and food problems, so they can usually live in more extreme locations than the other races would try to settle.
[*]Medium Size
[*]30ft move speed.
[*]Darkvision (60ft).
[*]+2 on Saves against weather and food.

A'tch, had to go to work before I could complete all of it. Gnomes play practical jokes and adventure because they like exotic things, and I'm not sure what to put for halflings really. If they're not hobbits, what are they?

[Username17]

I know that 3e is already like that, but seriously, why doesn't being small aid your move silently checks?

-Username17

[Lokathor]

...Because being big doesn't penalize them?

I mean I'd personally merge it into one skill really, except that sneaking up on people is usually such an "own your face" tactic in 3e that it should be 2 rolls just so that it can fail more often.

For LBRPG I haven't really settled on a complete skill list yet, so I guess I could go either way on that. Speaking of which, I'd like to see spells that don't replace skills, but instead let you perform skills as if you were trained with them, and then if you're also already trained then you get like a +5 bonus or something. Dunno how practical that'd be or not. When we eventually do the 3e clean up we might be able to implement that idea.

[CatharzGodfoot]

Small dwarves means that they also get small weapons and small carrying capacity, and really does make them a master race when you can avoid the carrying capacity issue (lots of Mules or something). I think they work better as just slow and steady medium creatures.

...which is always, because they can ignore encumbrance. Anyway, you're probably right.

And yeah, gnomes have always struck me as a very plant and animal associated race more than a "smaller dwarf" race, and animal speech is a cool power. As a kid I would hear about lawn gnomes and garden gnomes, so I thought of them as something like a fat pixie that couldn't fly, or perhaps a smaller and even more opulent version of hobbits that lived in something like a shire.

Also, is there a name I can use for the main races that helps separate them from other humanoids? Something like "Metahuman" or "Name Giver" or something like that would be cool. Some sort of mild explanation for why goblins aren't on the good list but gnomes are on the good list might be nice, even though both of them can be just as good or evil.

D&D used the term 'demihuman'. Any why aren't goblins on the good list? The only real reason I can see is if they refuse to trade with anyone, engage in full-on genocide, are highly expansionistic, and can sustain it with a very high reproductive rate. Maybe backed up with a thecracy. Even then they could produce heroes, or have splinter groups that are decent people.

So here's an example run of the new complete Races section.

Races
In this game, people don't really have different bloodlines when they're from another nation or their parents were from another nation. Instead, they're just completely a different species. This lets you use all kinds of stereotypes if you want without being nearly as racist. At least, not as obviously racist.

In LBRPG, all the main races that you can play as are humanoid creatures that start out fairly weak compared to most of the world's monsters, but they have the ability to become powerful through training and adventuring.

Effects of Size:
[*]Medium Size: Medium creatures don't have any adjustments for their size.
[*]Small Size: Small creatures get +1 to Attacks and AC, and +2 to Hide checks. They also have to use smaller weaponry and they can only carry 3/4ths as much as a medium creature.

Languages:
Each race can speak two langauges: it's own language as well as "Common", which is a simple language used mostly for trade. Humans don't actually have a language of their own, and other races often regard them as being slightly silly because of their use Common as a primary language instead of some other "real language". Humans also learn a second language though, and they get to pick what their extra language is. They can pick any language, even a non-humanoid one. Don't forget that the adventuring classes also gives you two langaues, so as long as you're not a peasent you can speak four langauges instead of just two.

Human
Humans are the same humans that we all know and (hopefuly) love. You can generally assume that humans in LBRPG look like humans do in the modern age, even though in real life Iron Age humans were acually a lot shorter and stuff because of genetics and because they never really had enough food. Humans don't live quite as long as the other main races (usualy less than 100 years), and so they're more easily tempted to strike out into the wilds and adventure around in search of quick power and glory.
[*]Medium Size
[*]30ft move speed
[*]Humans gain 1 extra proficiency (Skill, Armor, Shield, or Weapon).


Elf
Elves are a long lived (300+ years) and fairly nomadic race. These two traits combined mean that elves aren't what most people would call brave. They are more often willing to move on and rebuild in a new location than risk their lives trying to reclaim a territory that seems lost. The world is covered over with old elvish camps and ruins. Though not every elf knows about every place, it's a pretty good bet that at least some elves probably know about most every place.

Elves are about 5'6" tall to 6' tall, and they're usually thin and lightweight for their height. Even a very strong elf that's 6' tall isn't likely to weigh in excess of 150 pounds or so. An elf is considered to be an adult once they're 20 years old, and it is elf custom among many tribes that the elf then spends the next 20 years or so of their life among the other races learning about other cultures, and how other cultures have changed over time, before returning home to share what they have learned. It is thought that this gives the elf the flexability of mind to allow them to grow properly and lead the next generaion of elves.
[*]Medium Size
[*]35ft move speed
[*]Elves always ignore difficult terrain (both tactical and overland).


Dwarf
Dwarves are a short and stocky race of people who like to live just underground in cities built up around a fortress. When a fortress is strong enough, it will send out a caravan of settlers to go found a new fortress that will grow until it is strong enough to in turn send out settelers of its own. Dwarven fortresses are usually carved into the local terrain with only minimal sections being built above ground, and ancient abandoned fortress complexes are a popular place for adventurers.

Physically, Dwarves are usually only 4'6" to 5' tall, and they're generally quite stocky and sturdy for a creature of their height, often weighting between 110lbs and 190lbs. Dwarves can usually live to the age of 180 or s, but they are considered adults within dwarven society at the age of 12. Despite often living underground, a dwarf's skin does not naturally become pale from a lack of sunlight until they become very old (in excess of 150 years). Dwarves usually take very good care of their hair, and dwarven males often have a great deal of pride for their beards. Dwarves actually work and function better on alcaholic drinks than on pure water, and so they often have a bit of a bad reputation in that area among the other races.
[*]Medium Size
[*]25ft move speed, but now slowed by armor or encumberance.
[*]Low-Light vision.


Halfling
HALFLING CULTURE INFO HERE

Halflings are about 3' to 3'6" tall, and they weigh about 35 to 40 pounds. They're fairly athletic for their size, and they can easily keep up with a human when traveling. They usually have lighter skin and blond or brown hair.
[*]Small Size
[*]30ft move speed.


Gnome
GNOME CULTURE INFO HERE

Gnomes are on the very small end of the "Small Size" range. They're generally about 2'1" to 2'6" tall and 25 to 35 pounds. Most people don't quite notice though, because gnomes are so often found wearing their traditional pointed hat when they're in public. Gnomes have a fair amount of bushy and fluffy hair, but usually only in shades of gray and white even for a very young gnome of only 25 years. Gnomes usually eat plants and grains and things that you can cook from plants and grains. They especially enjoy either sweet or bitter foods, and a gnomish village will frequently bother with the hastle of bee-keeping just to secure a steady supply of honey.
[*]Small Size
[*]25ft move speed.
[*]Gnomes can naturally speak with forest creatures, though the conversation is usually limited by the animal's intelligence.


Orc
Orcs are tough looking guys that can see perfectly well in the dark out to a good distance. This makes them pretty scary, because even the races with Low-Light vision need limited light sources to see, so you can tell where they are from far away at night. Orcs can just sneak up on you in the darkness with no warning. They're naturally a little aggressive, and even in good care they only live to be slightly older than humans (~110 years). This makes them prime cannidates to go out and hunt for treasure in the places that other people usually aren't willing to go.

Orcs are about the height of a human, and only slightly heavier. They have skin in various shades of green, a pair of tusks on their jaw, and dark brown or black hair. Orcs are omnivores, but they usually prefer meats over plants, and they can also even eat raw meat without getting sick. Orcs are fairly resistant to both harsh weather and food problems, so they can usually live in more extreme locations than the other races would try to settle.
[*]Medium Size
[*]30ft move speed.
[*]Darkvision (60ft).
[*]+2 on Saves against weather and food.

A'tch, had to go to work before I could complete all of it. Gnomes play practical jokes and adventure because they like exotic things, and I'm not sure what to put for halflings really. If they're not hobbits, what are they?

I kind of assumed that the gnomes would be reclusive woodland folk that are primarily hunter-gatherers but also engage in small-scale (no pun) farming. Settlements would be hidden in deep forests. They'd trade hides (and other animal parts), herbs, flowers, and magic crafts with city folk for goods that they can't produce as efficiently, like metal implements and textiles.

Halflings are more difficult to justify. Making them parasitic thieves on other societies seems overly negative.
If you assume that they're just as smart as humans (which you should), employing a halfling should be more cost effective because they can live much more cheaply. So halflings will be employed as cheap labor in industries that don't require strength (much like child labor). Regardless of their origins, they'll probably be firmly established in their niche. The fact that they need 75% less room to live comfortably in will naturally result in 'hobbit districts'.
It's quite possible that, on the average, hobbits would be more wealthy than the larger races (being able to save more), and this would probably encourage the development of of a bourgeois class.

[virgil]

Employers will take advantage of the fact that halflings need less food/space to survive, and pay them that much less than a human, making them the default race for such jobs because humans can't compete with those savings.

[Lokathor]

Hmm, how about this? :

Halfling
Halflings are half the size of a human, just as clever, and just as interested in getting ahead in the world. They eat less, take up less space, and they're easy to push around if you're one of the big races. So what do the halflings specialize in? Piracy of course! Long ago, the halfling people actually were enslaved in the terrible workshops of the "biglings". Halfling pirates used the superior marine capacity of their ships and over many years they freed their brothers. These days the majority of the halfling people live on their sattered island nations, and they're kept on equal footing with the biglings because of their superior naval power. It's all still run by pirates though. Kinda like having the mob in charge of your country.

Halflings are about 3' to 3'6" tall, and they weigh about 35 to 40 pounds. They usually have blond or brown hair and the well-tanned skin of an expericed navyling. They can live to be about 120 years old, but most halflings dont live the peaceful and danger-free life required to reach such an old age.
[*]Small Size
[*]30ft move speed.
[*]+2 on Boatmanship and Swimming checks.


Gnome
Gnomes are an almost excessively small race of humanoids that has the fairly unique ability of being able to talk to forest dewlling animals. It's not even an actual language that they use that others could learn, it's just a magical part of their existance that lets them talk to bears and raccoons and deer and so on. Gnomes usually keep to themselves and their own villages, and they like to live lives of luxury and mild trickey. Gnomes spend most of their time wondering how they can improve their life and the life of their village. They are seemingly quite adept at farming, but they actually usually just pay the local vermin to leave them alone and bother others instead (gnomes usually have a good sense of humor). They regularly trade their excess crop yields for all the sorts of things that a small village can't create on its own, usually all sorts of exotic imported foods and goods from far away places.

Gnomes are on the very small end of the "Small Size" range. They're generally about 2'1" to 2'6" tall and 25 to 35 pounds. Most people don't quite notice though, because gnomes are so often found wearing their traditional pointed hat when they're in public. Gnomes have a fair amount of bushy and fluffy hair, but usually only in shades of gray and white even for a very young gnome of only 25 years. Gnomes usually eat plants and grains and things that you can cook from plants and grains. They especially enjoy either sweet or bitter foods, and a gnomish village will frequently bother with the hastle of bee-keeping just to secure a steady supply of honey.
[*]Small Size
[*]25ft move speed.
[*]Gnomes can naturally speak with forest creatures, though the conversation is usually limited by the animal's intelligence.

[RandomCasualty2]

[*]Orc: 30ft; Whenever an orc fails a Saving Throw, he can take damage to succeed on the save anyways. The orc player is told how much they failed the save by (if necessary) and they can choose to either take that many damage and succeed at the save, or to not take any damage and fail the save normally.

In a game with hit points, this mechanic really is going to be crazy broken to the point that high level orcs don't fail saves. At all.

If you're running a fixed or at least mostly fixed health bar like shadowrun, doing something like this is okay. But never do a mechanic like this in a game of vastly diverse HP pools among characters.

[Lokathor]

Well at low levels the HP cost will kill you horribly. At high levels, in BFRPG at least, you're not supposed to just go down to Save or Die effects, and the fact that even when they're failing to affect you you're taking damage to your rather small HP pool (6th level BF fighter with 14 Con has 6d8+6 HP) means that you can't keep it up for long. Until then, yeah, it's pretty hax. That first version had some pretty strong racial abilities.

Either way, that set of racials is out of date, but the new set isn't completely settled on, so I didn't edit the first post. It's higher up this page in that Spoiler block, and also right there with the Halflings and Gnomes (the block doesn't have Halfling/Gnome culture writeups).

Nice to see you noticing though RandomCasualty2! You always seem pretty on top of things in the discussion section and it's always nice to have more eyes on a project

EDIT: Updated the first post to reflect current changes on stats and races.

[Lokathor]

Moving on from races! Up next is Classes. Part of classes is obviously spells. So here's my basic question: Does sorcerer style casting or wizard style casting work best? Cleric style casting is pretty much right out, because it's too good unless you never add spells to the game. Ideally you can add spells to the game, so it's out.

Now, assuming that I want to have "Wizard", "Cleric", and "Necromancer" as some basic casting classes (possibly "Bard" and "Illusionist" later), how should they get spells and how should they get spells per day? I probably want to have 1st though 6th level spells (perhaps sorted into 1st though 6th "Spell Circles", for flavor). I probably want to have at least 8 spells available at each step for each class, and I want to be able to be able to add additional spells to the game later on if possible.

Until I have the spell structure nailed down, I can't really finish the non-magical classes. I'll probably want to have "Fighter", "Rogue", "Barbarian", and then maybe something like "Ranger" as well? "Paladin" is also always a cool one to have. If I don't have multiclassing (which is currently the plan) then I'll maybe need to stick in some classes for the kinds of multiclasses that people want. Paladin is kinda like Cleric/Fighter. Ranger is kinda like a nature Rogue/Fighter. Those sorts of things.

So, can vancian style magical and traditional style non-magical characters be balanced against each other? Any thoughts anyone?

[Lokathor]

https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B9 ... ZDg5&hl=en

Well here's a PDF of the stuff so far. Introduction and Races is complete. Classes is complete, but as we all know the power of the cleric and wizard comes from their spell list, which isn't complete. There's about 12 spells entered into the PDF. The rest of the spell lists are just copied out of BFRPG as placeholders.

[Lokathor]

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=s ... MWU1YTJhYQ

Switched to a much smaller and concise PDF format to keep things more clear. It's now only 8 pages including the OGL page. I really want to come up with a better name for the game if I can, because "Less Basic" seems exceedingly derivative, and the BFRPG guys probably won't like it.

Tossed out the idea of a skill system connected to class and level. I think I like better the idea that all skills are entirely an arbitrary decision outside of the class balance decisions, so that GMs can hand out skill points and such as an alternate reward/training system to the XP/level system.

Removed alignment, which means removing any magic that affects alignment.

Fighters will have more fighting talents, I just put in a few at the moment. Rogues might get switched over to a talent style system, but I'd kinda like to have them just get lots of abilities that all level up at the same time so that they feel different from fighters.

I want to have it so that Clerics will get exactly 8 spells per circle at each circle (1st though 6th), and so that they're all non-offensive spells. Though they can keep Wall of Fire and Blade Barrier at the high levels, since they're more defensive in nature. Perhaps a low or mid-level attack spell that only targets undead could be allowed, but even that seems iffy. I'd like to leave room for a Druid class later, so I'll try to avoid some of the animal manipulations if I can find good replacements.

Wizards are where I get into trouble. With something like the illusionist and necromancer later on, I think that giving them increased spells per day and some other powers can make them interesting even if the wizard gets some of their spells, but i also want to be able to keep introducing more and more wizard spells into the game. I guess my only option is to either have a "max spells per level" rule, or a heavily implied note to the GM, or wizards will fall off the deep end of power later on as they amass all the spells.

Also, I gave wizards an ability kinda like Eldritch blast (only ever 1d4 damage though) so that they have something kinda cool even when they don't have a spell. It needs to have a damage type assigned to it, but I haven't settled 100% on what element system I'm gonna use yet so I left that part off for the moment.

[Avoraciopoctules]

I definitely like a lot of what I see so far. A few questions, comments, and suggestions:
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In other news, how would people prefer that I keep the public version? I'm also working on it in LaTeX, so I could just upload the PDF to google and keep a link to the current version in the first post? I could also possibly just keep working on the BB code version of things, but I don't know how large posts are allowed to be and how large the document will get.

I personally prefer to see stuff on the forums directly, since it makes quoting and responding to particular pieces easier, but it isn't really all that big a deal since you have the pdfs readily available in Google Docs. Posts can get ridiculously large here. Look at AWoD or the Tomes.

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Moving on from races! Up next is Classes. Part of classes is obviously spells. So here's my basic question: Does sorcerer style casting or wizard style casting work best? Cleric style casting is pretty much right out, because it's too good unless you never add spells to the game. Ideally you can add spells to the game, so it's out.

Wizard casting adds a layer of complexity to the class, since you choose which spells you have available at any given time. It may make playing a mage more complicated than playing a Fighter or Rogue.

Sorcerer casting is simpler given that you don't have two different spell lists, one of which shifts around daily, but I'm not sure if when you refer to Sorcerer casting, you are including the concepts of comparatively more spells per day, more difficulty in adding new spells to your list immediately, and reduced reliance on going out and physically acquiring new magic.

I prefer Wizard casting, both because I like the concept of adventuring to learn new spells in addition to other causes and because the ability to customize the array of single-use abilities available seems it would be more enjoyable than having a static list of things I could do and a set number of times I could do something on it.

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Until I have the spell structure nailed down, I can't really finish the non-magical classes. I'll probably want to have "Fighter", "Rogue", "Barbarian", and then maybe something like "Ranger" as well? "Paladin" is also always a cool one to have. If I don't have multiclassing (which is currently the plan) then I'll maybe need to stick in some classes for the kinds of multiclasses that people want. Paladin is kinda like Cleric/Fighter. Ranger is kinda like a nature Rogue/Fighter. Those sorts of things.

If you are using "Rogue" rather than "Thief", you may want to consider replacing the Fighter with the Hero or something similar. It covers more conceptual space and may help avoid some potentially problematic player preconceptions. You also might be able to cover stuff Rangers, Paladins, and other fighter subclasses with specific talents that give appropriate abilities. On that note, see next quote and response.

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Fighters will have more fighting talents, I just put in a few at the moment. Rogues might get switched over to a talent style system, but I'd kinda like to have them just get lots of abilities that all level up at the same time so that they feel different from fighters.

How overtly supernatural do you want fighting talents to get? Should fighters be able to get talents that allow them to infuse an attack with fire or lightning, setting a target ablaze or possibly stunning it? Should they be able to swing their swords and send air blades to strike opponents a short ways out of normal range? Or should this sort of thing be restricted to magical equipment?

Have you considered tiered fighting talents, where there is one or more class of talents inappropriate for 1st level?

What about fighting talents with the prerequisite of first picking related ones?

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Wizards are where I get into trouble. With something like the illusionist and necromancer later on, I think that giving them increased spells per day and some other powers can make them interesting even if the wizard gets some of their spells, but i also want to be able to keep introducing more and more wizard spells into the game. I guess my only option is to either have a "max spells per level" rule, or a heavily implied note to the GM, or wizards will fall off the deep end of power later on as they amass all the spells.

Max spells per level seems preferable to me, especially if there is some way of shuffling the list of spells you can readily access around. Perhaps flavor it as only having so much magical capacity in your personal spellbook, and make the process of attuning a new or different one take considerably more time than memorizing new spells. This would imply that erasing spells from your repertoire would be somehow problematic, though. Not sure if that would be a good or a bad thing, but I'm getting a premonition of mages refusing to learn new spells in case something better comes by. So maybe I should switch my preference to "unsure"

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Also, I gave wizards an ability kinda like Eldritch blast (only ever 1d4 damage though) so that they have something kinda cool even when they don't have a spell. It needs to have a damage type assigned to it, but I haven't settled 100% on what element system I'm gonna use yet so I left that part off for the moment.

I'm not sure what makes using that preferable to just chucking a knife or oil flask, other than you being impossible to disarm.

Have you considered at-will cantrips?

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[CatharzGodfoot]

This may sound insane, but a mutated combination of 4e magic, BoWFM maneuvers, and 3.5e psionics might work very nicely.

Please, hear me out!

You'd have lesser and greater arcana. Using a lesser arcanum requires that you have arcane focus. Using a greater arcanum requires you to expend arcane focus. Regaining arcane focus is a full round action. You have lesser and greater arcana known lists. Aside from the above restrictions, arcana can be used at will.

Rituals are just a bullshit catch-all category for spells that take a minute or more to cast. You keep them in some kind of spellbook, and just read them out to use them. Sometimes they'll have associated sacrifices and foci, like wisdom damage or blood or a lake.

All of the above have level minimums, probably following normal spell/maneuver rules.

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If that's too complicated, just use sorcerer casting (perhaps with rituals as well). If you want to be able to reuse the bulk of already-written 3e spells, go with beguiler casting.

[Lokathor]

Hey I finally got a response!

I personally prefer to see stuff on the forums directly, since it makes quoting and responding to particular pieces easier, but it isn't really all that big a deal since you have the pdfs readily available in Google Docs. Posts can get ridiculously large here. Look at AWoD or the Tomes.

True, I'll see what I can do about putting stuff into posts. Most things are just a paragraph of text either way. It's mostly tables and charts that take work to convert.

Wizard casting adds a layer of complexity...

Sorcerer casting is simpler given that you don't have two different spell lists...

I prefer Wizard casting...

Max spells per level seems preferable to me, especially if there is some way of shuffling the list of spells you can readily access around. Perhaps flavor it as only having so much magical capacity in your personal spellbook, and make the process of attuning a new or different one take considerably more time than memorizing new spells. This would imply that erasing spells from your repertoire would be somehow problematic, though. Not sure if that would be a good or a bad thing, but I'm getting a premonition of mages refusing to learn new spells in case something better comes by. So maybe I should switch my preference to "unsure"

If the known-spell switching had to take place at special locations (stone henges, pyramid tops, etc) or if it simply took such a long period of time that it was implicitly (or explicitly) a "between adventures" activity (eg: 1 week per circle of the spell) then it could work out. 8 spells per circle tops (or at a time) seems like a good number, and consistent with clerics as well.

If you are using "Rogue" rather than "Thief", you may want to consider replacing the Fighter with the Hero or something similar. It covers more conceptual space and may help avoid some potentially problematic player preconceptions. You also might be able to cover stuff Rangers, Paladins, and other fighter subclasses with specific talents that give appropriate abilities. On that note, see next quote and response.

Oh right right, "Hero". I've seen that in several game writeups lately. Sounds good. The full list, which I think I posted at first, already included things to turn you into something like a Monk or a Barbarian. Yes I'd like to keep the number of classes small I suppose and just throw on more things for players to be able to pick, rather than write lots of specific classes. However, that has a potential downfall later on because it breeds either easy powercreep or easy ways to shoot yourself in the foot (even with ability tiering).

How overtly supernatural do you want fighting talents to get? Should fighters be able to get talents that allow them to infuse an attack with fire or lightning, setting a target ablaze or possibly stunning it? Should they be able to swing their swords and send air blades to strike opponents a short ways out of normal range? Or should this sort of thing be restricted to magical equipment?

Have you considered tiered fighting talents, where there is one or more class of talents inappropriate for 1st level?

What about fighting talents with the prerequisite of first picking related ones?

[*]Supernatural-ness: I was going to say "separate class for that", but actually there's no reason that needs to be the case I guess.
[*]Tiered Talents and Talent Requirements: Yes, that's a good plan, I just didn't really know what to write in and how to split it up. I guess it could be a new talent at each odd level (similar to new spell circles), and then maybe {1,3,5}, {7,9,11}, {13}? I dunno. Each one is like a feat really, they should be powerful because you don't get many. Tiering them up might not be the best plan, just writing them to auto-scale would probably be better. Unless you had to pick higher tier powers as you go up, forcing you to pick only 3 low-tier powers, then 3 mid-tier powers, and 1 top-tier power. Choices like that are good because it makes the player think a bit, but are bad because then you have to really make sure that each choice is generally good, and you can't really write "specialist" choices without them also being options for the players to potentially shoot themselves in the foot with.

I'm not sure what makes using that preferable to just chucking a knife or oil flask, other than you being impossible to disarm.

Have you considered at-will cantrips?

I suppose there isn't much special about it, but it's kinda fancier and lets the wizard seem more magical in general. It also gives the mage a better mechanical reason to keep that ritual dagger or quarterstaff around. At-will cantrips would actually make for a good thing instead. I basically wanted the wizard to have a way to "be a wizard" without expending daily resources (like how clerics get bonus damage against the undead all the time, and rogues get backstab and quick action even when they're out of luck dice).

You'd have lesser and greater arcana. Using a lesser arcanum requires that you have arcane focus. Using a greater arcanum requires you to expend arcane focus. Regaining arcane focus is a full round action. You have lesser and greater arcana known lists. Aside from the above restrictions, arcana can be used at will.

Rituals are just a bullshit catch-all category for spells that take a minute or more to cast. You keep them in some kind of spellbook, and just read them out to use them. Sometimes they'll have associated sacrifices and foci, like wisdom damage or blood or a lake.

All of the above have level minimums, probably following normal spell/maneuver rules.

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If that's too complicated, just use sorcerer casting (perhaps with rituals as well). If you want to be able to reuse the bulk of already-written 3e spells, go with beguiler casting.

That's actually quite complicated to design properly in a balanced way, but it's quite easy to use as a player. "You've got two lists of spells, Major and Minor, and if you use anything on the Major list then you have to charge up again before you get back your magic.", that's very easy to explain. I think that it would be very cool to have that, but that I'd want it to be some other class, and keep the wizard on the vancian system. But it's a good plan for some other magic character like "Sorcerer" or "Warlock" or "Psion".

I'm somehow compelled to have wizard spells take 10 minutes per circle, so that the highest circle spell takes exactly 1 hour, thus giving a good reason for how the hour was decided upon. Is it prep time to cast directly from the book without memoization (fun at low levels)? Is it memorization time itself (harsh at high levels)? Ritual time since rituals should have levels with them too (likely this)?

Edit: And no, I won't be able to reuse the bulk of spells. Spells and such kinda have to be written from the ground up (lots of nerf stick). Next update is to examine and outline the Wizard spell list.

Edit2: Now that I think about it more, the Cleric's magic might be a good fit for the minor/major casting setup. I guess I'd have to see what the Minor spell examples were though, because clerics are supposed to have protective/defensive/divinatory type spells only, no attacks.

Also, there has to be a large and nasty cap on how much healing a party can access in a given day, because otherwise it messes with the assumptions of dungeon delving too much.

[CatharzGodfoot]

You'd have lesser and greater arcana. Using a lesser arcanum requires that you have arcane focus. Using a greater arcanum requires you to expend arcane focus. Regaining arcane focus is a full round action. You have lesser and greater arcana known lists. Aside from the above restrictions, arcana can be used at will.

Rituals are just a bullshit catch-all category for spells that take a minute or more to cast. You keep them in some kind of spellbook, and just read them out to use them. Sometimes they'll have associated sacrifices and foci, like wisdom damage or blood or a lake.

All of the above have level minimums, probably following normal spell/maneuver rules.

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If that's too complicated, just use sorcerer casting (perhaps with rituals as well). If you want to be able to reuse the bulk of already-written 3e spells, go with beguiler casting.

That's actually quite complicated to design properly in a balanced way, but it's quite easy to use as a player. "You've got two lists of spells, Major and Minor, and if you use anything on the Major list then you have to charge up again before you get back your magic.", that's very easy to explain. I think that it would be very cool to have that, but that I'd want it to be some other class, and keep the wizard on the vancian system. But it's a good plan for some other magic character like "Sorcerer" or "Warlock" or "Psion".

I'm somehow compelled to have wizard spells take 10 minutes per circle, so that the highest circle spell takes exactly 1 hour, thus giving a good reason for how the hour was decided upon. Is it prep time to cast directly from the book without memoization (fun at low levels)? Is it memorization time itself (harsh at high levels)? Ritual time since rituals should have levels with them too (likely this)?

Edit: And no, I won't be able to reuse the bulk of spells. Spells and such kinda have to be written from the ground up (lots of nerf stick). Next update is to examine and outline the Wizard spell list.

Edit2: Now that I think about it more, the Cleric's magic might be a good fit for the minor/major casting setup. I guess I'd have to see what the Minor spell examples were though, because clerics are supposed to have protective/defensive/divinatory type spells only, no attacks.

Also, there has to be a large and nasty cap on how much healing a party can access in a given day, because otherwise it messes with the assumptions of dungeon delving too much.

If you're only going to use to system for one class, it's definitely more trouble than it's worth. You'll almost certainly want spells that work the same for every spell casting class, regardless of the intricacies of how they're cast.

Anything you're casting outside of the combat time scale should probably be a ritual. Heroes' feast is a ritual. fabrication is a ritual. detect magic is a ritual. Teleport is a ritual. Water breathing is a ritual. Reading a scroll is a ritual. Drinking a potion is effectively a ritual anyone can perform.

You could make a class that has only ritual casting. A bard that sings actual songs (rather than fair use snippets), for example.

[Lokathor]

At first I was following you, but then I seem to have lost track. Reading a scroll and drinking a potion are rituals? What? I though that "Ritual" was defined as "Effect that takes 1 or more minutes to activate".

Using your examples:
[*]Heroes' Feast should take a daily spell slot (I think) because it does something on the day you cast it, and the bonuses don't last into the next day or anything.
[*]Fabricate is a world breaker that I don't like. I'm not going to include it.
[*]Detect Magic should probably just be a normal spell. Identify might be a ritual, but being able to see magic auras at a moment's notice is a fair request to make (allows you to identify magical traps, illusions, and so on).
[*]Teleport, now that I can see as a ritual. My vision for travel effects was that Dimension Door (4th) would be "relatively short range" movement and limited by Line of Sight; it also only takes you and things you can carry. Teleport (5th) could take you to "any place on the same plane that you've been to before"; along with up to one person per level touching you at the time of casting (and all the stuff you can all carry). Gateway is the 6th circle perfect expression of travel magic: It opens up an "outgoing" doorway to any other place you've ever been (even cross-planar) and keeps the portal open for up to 1 round per level. Then there can also be a 1st or 2nd circle spell, Activate Portal, to allow the activation of magical transportation devices, naturally occurring portals, and so on (even when "they're out of power" or "it's the wrong moon phase" or things like that).
[*]Water Breathing makes sense as a ritual. You pretty much know that you're going to need it and have it readied ahead of time somehow.

Maybe you should clarify a bit what you mean by "rituals".

I also had a though that for many "non-fighting buffs" the durations could simply be turned way up without much consequence as well. Water Breathing, for example, could just last "until the next sunrise/sunset" (like SR summons), and it wouldn't do much other than reduce the number of water breathing potions you need for your adventure. Detect Magic, if you want to spend a spell slot on it, could probably just last for an hour or something (though I'd also limit it to line of sight only in that case).

[Orca]

I know fire and electricity are different damage types in DnD, but do they really need to be? A lightning bolt spell is different to a fireball spell largely from the different areas of effect really, they both fry enemies to about the same point. This isn't Shadowrun where you need to think about tasers.

[Lokathor]

But there's shocker lizards and hell hounds and tesla traps and explosive runes. The list goes on in both directions. I think there's enough justification to have Fire and Lightning be separate types.

Though you could just split all damage down into either "physical damage" or "energy damage", it's mostly a style issue whenever you pick an element system. Players generally don't expect things that are immune to fire attacks to be immune to lightning attacks, and vice versa, so that's why they're kept separate by me.

[CatharzGodfoot]

At first I was following you, but then I seem to have lost track. Reading a scroll and drinking a potion are rituals? What? I though that "Ritual" was defined as "Effect that takes 1 or more minutes to activate".

My point is that they're thing you won't use in combat time. Reading a page of arcane text aloud or chugging a potion are probably things best left for when you're not in combat--at least with the way D&D combat works. If you change it enough, YMMV.

Using your examples:
[*]Heroes' Feast should take a daily spell slot (I think) because it does something on the day you cast it, and the bonuses don't last into the next day or anything.

Heroes' feast is a great big magic tea party that everyone partakes in and then feels better after. You can't even compare it to, say, finger of death. It doesn't matter how many times a day a person uses it, because it already takes an hour (plus 10 minutes ritual prep).

[*]Fabricate is a world breaker that I don't like. I'm not going to include it.

Fair enough, although I think the implementation is broken rather than the concept. I could just have easily chosen [major|minor] creation.

[*]Detect Magic should probably just be a normal spell. Identify might be a ritual, but being able to see magic auras at a moment's notice is a fair request to make (allows you to identify magical traps, illusions, and so on).

You can't effectively use detect magic in combat. It takes four rounds before you get all the data you're after. It's seriously either a ritual or should be completely revised as some sort of innate ability that works like arcane sight rather than a spell.

[*]Teleport, now that I can see as a ritual. My vision for travel effects was that Dimension Door (4th) would be "relatively short range" movement and limited by Line of Sight; it also only takes you and things you can carry. Teleport (5th) could take you to "any place on the same plane that you've been to before"; along with up to one person per level touching you at the time of casting (and all the stuff you can all carry). Gateway is the 6th circle perfect expression of travel magic: It opens up an "outgoing" doorway to any other place you've ever been (even cross-planar) and keeps the portal open for up to 1 round per level. Then there can also be a 1st or 2nd circle spell, Activate Portal, to allow the activation of magical transportation devices, naturally occurring portals, and so on (even when "they're out of power" or "it's the wrong moon phase" or things like that).

*Bamf* powers belong as spells or whatever.
You should seriously consider making teleportation effects integrate into the game system. I'm a fan of the following effects:
[*]*Bamf* teleport: Short distance. Comes in LoS and non-LoS varieties. A combat spell (although things like passwall fit in this category too--force combat bamfs to use LoS if you want to keep the distinction).
[*]LoS/LoE teleport: Basically like having very fast flight. Might be acceptable as a higher level combat movement ability.
[*]Waypoint teleport: You can use a ritual to create a waypoint. There might be restrictions on where or how you make them. When you use waypoint teleportation, you 'zero in' on the arcane signature of any waypoint you know of. You need to know the arcane signature to use a waypoint, either learned by performing a short ritual there or learning it from a book.
[*]Special LoS teleport: You can teleport to anywhere you can see--which includes far-away locales only seen through magic mirrors or with telepathic phantasmal eyeballs.
In all of the ritual forms, transportation takes real time and people at the other end get a clear warning that someone is coming through--whether it's a great big rent in space-time that takes a minute to stabilize or a glittery transport effect that appears before you do.
And don't think in terms of "rounds per level" when you're dealing with rituals--that's combat time, not 'I'm sending my merchant caravan through a planar portal' time.

Maybe you should clarify a bit what you mean by "rituals".

I also had a though that for many "non-fighting buffs" the durations could simply be turned way up without much consequence as well. Water Breathing, for example, could just last "until the next sunrise/sunset" (like SR summons), and it wouldn't do much other than reduce the number of water breathing potions you need for your adventure. Detect Magic, if you want to spend a spell slot on it, could probably just last for an hour or something (though I'd also limit it to line of sight only in that case).

I don't really care how long it lasts so long as the cost of use is 'spending the time to use it', 'burning the resources to power it', and 'putting forward the effort to learn it' rather than 'expending an arbitrary per-day power slot'. Making water breath a 10-minute ritual that lasts for an hour or two and has to be performed on land can add some dramatic tension.

[Avoraciopoctules]

True, I'll see what I can do about putting stuff into posts. Most things are just a paragraph of text either way. It's mostly tables and charts that take work to convert.

I'd being willing to convert charts and tables if you specify which ones you want. I'm a little busy this and next week, but I could probably find the time to do some basic stuff with BBCode. It feels a lot simpler than HTML to me, particularly since my copy of Dreamweaver seems to have some kind of bug where tables are concerned.

[Lokathor]

My point is that they're thing you won't use in combat time. Reading a page of arcane text aloud or chugging a potion are probably things best left for when you're not in combat--at least with the way D&D combat works. If you change it enough, YMMV.

What? Of course you use scrolls and potions in combat! All sorts of scrolls and potions are combat appropriate. Recall that in this sort of a setup, scrolls aren't a thing that you can just make yourself all the time. You usually find them and so you just have whatever you have, which is often enough combat spells. Same thing with potions. In general, the game is very against the idea of players being able to make magical items at all because it just hurts the idea of risking your life to find them. Being able to manufacture more consumables is acceptable for high level characters to be able to do because otherwise the world would "run out", so they have to be replaced by something, but for the large majority of a player's life (1st to 10th) they can't make their own, they just have what they have.

Heroes' feast is a great big magic tea party that everyone partakes in and then feels better after. You can't even compare it to, say, finger of death. It doesn't matter how many times a day a person uses it, because it already takes an hour (plus 10 minutes ritual prep).

Yeah, I guess. It seems kinda like an opportunity cost issue: What does Heroes's Feast cost you to make you not use it every single day as soon as you're high enough level to cast it at all? I guess it could have a GP cost.

On that note: Is there a reason that Rituals in general can't just use daily spell slots as one of their limitations?

Fair enough, although I think the implementation is broken rather than the concept. I could just have easily chosen [major|minor] creation.

I'm going for a "weaker" level of magic in general I guess. The Creation spells and other spells that make things out of nothing in a way that allows for an economy advancement with them are what I'm trying to avoid. Same goes for things like Wall of Stone or Wall of Iron (if they're in at all, they'll simply crumble on their own after a matter of hours).

You can't effectively use detect magic in combat. It takes four rounds before you get all the data you're after. It's seriously either a ritual or should be completely revised as some sort of innate ability that works like arcane sight rather than a spell.

Oh right, I should have mentioned that. BFRPG's version of Detect Magic does function more like Arcane Sight: Magical auras within your vision are simply automatically identified without concentration. None of that "focus and learn more each round" nonsense.

*Bamf* powers belong as spells or whatever.
You should seriously consider making teleportation effects integrate into the game system. I'm a fan of the following effects:
[*]*Bamf* teleport: Short distance. Comes in LoS and non-LoS varieties. A combat spell (although things like passwall fit in this category too--force combat bamfs to use LoS if you want to keep the distinction).
[*]LoS/LoE teleport: Basically like having very fast flight. Might be acceptable as a higher level combat movement ability.
[*]Waypoint teleport: You can use a ritual to create a waypoint. There might be restrictions on where or how you make them. When you use waypoint teleportation, you 'zero in' on the arcane signature of any waypoint you know of. You need to know the arcane signature to use a waypoint, either learned by performing a short ritual there or learning it from a book.
[*]Special LoS teleport: You can teleport to anywhere you can see--which includes far-away locales only seen through magic mirrors or with telepathic phantasmal eyeballs.
In all of the ritual forms, transportation takes real time and people at the other end get a clear warning that someone is coming through--whether it's a great big rent in space-time that takes a minute to stabilize or a glittery transport effect that appears before you do.
And don't think in terms of "rounds per level" when you're dealing with rituals--that's combat time, not 'I'm sending my merchant caravan through a planar portal' time.

On Travel In General: Hmm, well everything I described was a spell form (and also a Wizard spell), but was also an instant "now you're there" effect, so that lines up. As for a ritual that's slower to setup and slower to arrive, but can be done more often, that's kinda cool too. Remember though that magic in general shouldn't be a thing you can use super regularly or it modernizes the setting in funny ways. So far, the "default setting" is including a basic theme that there were 3 ages to history: "The Primordial Age" (long long ago), "The Ancient Age" (long ago), and "The Modern Age" (which has lasted for a long time). During the Ancient Age there were two great civilizations (Dragons and Giants), and they did most of the magical work that lives into the modern age. Wizards themselves mostly don't know how to make magic of their own unless they're extremely powerful (11th or more), but they can recover old magic and maintain and activate existing items with much less training (related to the scroll/potion issue above). Even if you for some reason don't want to use the vague default history, the travel assumption is pretty much like in older versions of DnD: that people generally have to walk or sail a very long way for a very long period of time to get to far away places, and that it keeps the important places of the world rather separated from each other.

That said, Waypoint Teleportation is totally cool, and a good explanation of why the major cities are major cities, and why going even a day's walk away from them drops you back into a region of squalor that no one cares to bother with (since it's so much harder to get there than to just go to another waypoint location). Allowing new waypoints or not allows the GM to either encourage the players to setup their own domains and build up civilization, or reinforce the "wonders of ages past" feeling that the waypoints have. Example: In Stargate, the "super advanced" races can build gates to add to the gate network, but the main heros and villans have only "slightly advanced" tech even by the end of the show, so they never really manage to build their own gates, they always have to carry around spare gates if they need them (and occasional gate theft is usually an okay plot too). Connecting the waypoint you're at to a known other waypoint for travel could be an application of Activate Portal (2nd), which lets the majority of the world get about between the major cities relatively easily (3rd level NPCs aren't particularly rare, maybe 1% of the population).

So, yes, the topic of travel magic deserves a little more examination. In terms of teleportation that isn't spell based, that will be system integrated. However, the only creatures that I can imagine being able to teleport-or-anything-like-it naturally (off the top of my head) is the Blink Dog and some of the very high powered outsiders.

On Clerical Travel: Word of Recall (6th) I want to have as an actual spell. It instantly takes you and your party members back to your "home" location, even with 1,001 orcs crash in the dungeon door. Plane Shift (6th) can be a ritual or a spell (I don't care), but it takes you and your group to another plane very inaccurately (4/6 chance to be off target by 2d10 miles in a random direction, otherwise off target by 2d10 feet in a random direction; yay for WH40k scatter die). Being a spell and working instantly would be cool, but being a ritual and being able to be used a little more often at the cost of longer activation time would also work for something like that. It's supposed to allow for Clerical plane travel while still being clearly inferior to a Wizard's Gateway spell.

I don't really care how long it lasts so long as the cost of use is 'spending the time to use it', 'burning the resources to power it', and 'putting forward the effort to learn it' rather than 'expending an arbitrary per-day power slot'. Making water breath a 10-minute ritual that lasts for an hour or two and has to be performed on land can add some dramatic tension.

But using it as a spell out of a spell slot has a standard action cost, and burns a spell slot. Clerics auto know all 8 cleric spells each level anyways. The part about not working within water is the only part that's different between the spell and the proposed ritual, and there's no reason that the spell can't just have that as requirement to cast it.

I'd being willing to convert charts and tables if you specify which ones you want.

Oh it's not a huge deal. Latex tables are a bunch of cells separated by & with \\ for newlines. BBcode tables are almost the same thing, so it's just a search and replace kind of operation. Unless there's colspanning or rowspanning, but that's not a problem either! I'm an ex-professinoal programmer after all.