The unsteady-state RPG meme

General questions, debates, and rants about RPGs

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Lago PARANOIA
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Post by Lago PARANOIA »

And the part where RPGs fail the most is the time needed to be invested in them. And I´m not talking just about prep time, although that is certainly a factor. I´m talking about the fact that you have to buy a huge book, read through thousands and thousands of words that explain rules that are about as interesting as something not at all interesting, or read through countless pages of badly-written fiction, which, guess what? Isn´t that interesting at all.
I mean, honestly, the idea that people need to suffer through reading hundreds of pages that they don't want to read before they can have Real Ultimate Fun needs to go. While a lot of work could be done with streamlining and newbie-friendlying the rules, not enough work is done in actually making RPG Books compelling enough reading to stand on their own. There's no reason why those things shouldn't be packed to the brim with beautiful artwork and neat little comics.

The Character Builder is actually an enormous boon towards getting people to play. In one of my 4E games I hooked more than half of the players by showing them the Character Builder and letting them fool around with it, first. And the software and the 4E rules-set are a piece of shit; imagine what you could do if that thing actually had a character visualizer and some real honest-to-god customization.

I mean, obviously, even with all of the bells and whistles and maximum fine-tuning from our end there will still be people going 'too complicated; will not play!' but really that's not a big deal. The goal isn't to become the next World of Warcraft, the goal is to get back those millions of lapsed players. But in the meantime a lot more work could be done in actually getting players to read books.

The current setup of 'oh, gee, not as many people don't want to read our bland B&W doorstoppers where we whinge on endlessly about the economy of Brynn as they used to! Guess the hobby's going to die.' is laziness not on their end but on our end.
Last edited by Lago PARANOIA on Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa »

I have a friend who's working on an iPad style wargame, where the computer does all the numbers but you sit at it like you do a table game and can even use miniatures.

I think it all comes and goes. One of the big things is that game-nights - like date night, cruising, movies, live theater - have all gone down in popularity in Western culture. To the point that just planning to hang out with people is suspect.

-Crissa
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Josh_Kablack
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Re: The unsteady-state RPG meme

Post by Josh_Kablack »

virgileso wrote:From what I've been told of the '80s, tabletop roleplaying just doesn't hold a candle to its glory years in terms of number of active players; .
You have been told lies.

I lived and gamed in the 80s, and lemme tell you, you kids nowadays have got it easy. Back then, gamers were public enemy #1 to the 700 club, jack chick and Tom Hanks. Despite the crappy saturday morning cartoon, gamers were isolated and victimized and I had to trudge through the snow uphill both ways just to.....

Okay seriously, whoever told you that shit may have a point about their own gaming, but they are flat out wrong by any objective measure

D&D 3.0 set sales records for RPGs in 2000-2001. It smashed the prior records set by Vampire in the 1990s. (IE, each of the decades since the 80s has produced bigger selling games)

Within the past 10 years or so GenCon attendence got so large that it had to relocate from Lake Geneva to Indianapolis. Origins and Dragon*Con have undergone similar growth trends.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
Lago PARANOIA
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Post by Lago PARANOIA »

Crissa wrote:I have a friend who's working on an iPad style wargame, where the computer does all the numbers but you sit at it like you do a table game and can even use miniatures.

I think it all comes and goes. One of the big things is that game-nights - like date night, cruising, movies, live theater - have all gone down in popularity in Western culture. To the point that just planning to hang out with people is suspect.

-Crissa
Dungeons and Dragons--and tabletop games in general--will HAVE to get used to the idea of running more and more of their games online as time goes on. This means that people are going to have to view meeting each other face-to-face for gaming as a special treat, like a LAN or football party. This means publishing fewer (but more expensive and detailed) books.

Fortunately, PnP games are at a crossroads where it'll only get easier to do so with each passing year. By 2015, there's absolutely no reason why, say, Hackmaster couldn't have a software set comparable to that of Neverwinter Nights.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
Draco_Argentum
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Post by Draco_Argentum »

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Dungeons and Dragons--and tabletop games in general--will HAVE to get used to the idea of running more and more of their games online as time goes on.
Computer games in general definitely have the advantage here. I can buy a game, log in and start playing even if none of my friends have the game. The entry barrier is so low because I don't have to convince my friends that some game is worth buying before I can play. Then if its good maybe my friends buy it too and we can play together.

Face to face games require a group to get going. If you could get a game going on the net that was at least close to afk quality it'd help immensely.
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