I want to get a job that will let me earn epic amounts of $$

[mean_liar]

I've been kind of wary about continuing my electrical engineering degree because I've heard remarks from TAs that getting a masters or PhD doesn't make you all that more competitive than a BA.

And I know it's also petty and anecdotal, but Dilbert and other related media also makes computer/electrical engineering look really hellish.

Your TA is completely correct, at least as far as engineering is concerned as a profession.

I reiterate that you'd make a prime candidate for project controller. It's a specialized position that most engineers don't want to get involved with, either because it requires being onsite rather than in an office or because its more arcane voodoo than science.

[Neeeek]

High pay, low workload and legal:

I say: NFL Kicker.

It starts in the high 6-figures and you work for like a half-dozen 10 second plays in each of 20-24 games. Then you get the other half of the year off.

Of course you need to be one of the best 32 in the country to keep the job - miss 2 field goals from inside 35 in any single game and you're done.

On the downside there is a large amount of training and staying in shape, and you won't ever last more than about 10 years.

It's also too late for him to do that. He'd need to have started in high school or earlier.

[Lich-Loved]

Stay in electrical engineering. Seriously. It is one of the the very best 4-year professions you can get. When you come out, you basically have a slip of paper that says you can learn anything - and yes, when you get out you won't know anything you really need to know, but you will know everything you need to know to do whatever you want. Anyone that says we don't design things in the US anymore is full of crap. Anyone that thinks we do not manufacture things in the US anymore is full of crap. With the changes in health care, more companies than ever are going to automate their manufacturing and service processes to reduce headcount. This requires electrical engineers to act as systems integrators for different computer systems that are either manufactured here or abroad. All of this will require software - lots and lots of software, especially embedded software - the stuff CS majors would simply not be able to do. While software development is an art, having an EE means you have built motherboards by hand and know computers intimately and can deal with bus timing, bandwidth and other issues. While it is true that the "dumbass-version" of software development is moving offshore (and that is a Good Thing), the real jobs in software development are right here, and they are great.

Oh, it helps to keep in mind that working in the real world is a competition and not a demonstration, so yeah, if you want to be considered valuable, you have to, you know, provide value.

[Crissa]

Yeah, LL's pretty much got it. An EE is like gold.

-Crissa

[Doom]

Finish your degree, then switch over to Computer Science...get your master's, then 12 hours past that if necessary (some places actually require this).

Then say 'to hell with working with computers', and take your master's degree and go work in academia.

You can make 100k+ easy as a computer scientist with a graduate degree, 75% of that in academia.

Why make less? Because (speaking as an academic), the hours rock. 4 hours a day, 4 days a week, 8 months of the year, every conceivable holiday off. I went with mathematics, myself, since I couldn't handle learning Fortran one semester, LISP the next, and gawd-only-knows what was next (gave it up after one year...math was less work, 128 hours to graduate, and no difficulty getting into a class).

It's *very* hard to get computer scientists to work in academia, since the pay is lower...thus, our computer sci guy (or lady, in the current case), gets extra pay for doing essentially the same job I do. Her 'hardest' course is "this is a hard drive" and "this is how you get a program to run"...stuff you could do already, but colleges cannot hire you unless you have the slip of paper. Granted, it's been over a decade since I taught any course more advanced than what I learned in high school, so I can't exactly criticise how trivial her courses are (seriously, things have dropped off SHARPLY in the last few years, and alot over the last 20...been at this a while, and I'll save that rant for another day).

So, to maximize pay with minimized workload...academia.

[Lago PARANOIA]

Doom314, no offense but that sounds just too good to be true.

I know that teaching for just frickin' high school sucks anus; the hours are a lot more than advertised and the pay sucks. I can understand the pay being slightly higher, since teaching at a college is more prestigious, but 100k a year and that light a schedule?

[CatharzGodfoot]

I'd be willing to guess that a position as a tenured professor of Computer Science is by no means a safe bet. There are a lot of CS graduates being produced these days. There are also a lot of out-of-work computer scientists who either already have better qualifications than you or are getting higher degrees thanks to the economy.

Also, I'm trying to get into CS grad school, and academic programming would be a dream job.

[Doom]

At no point did I say anything about teaching at a high school. I never said 100k a year teaching (that's what deans/chancellors/accountants at the college make--those are cushy, full-time, political appointee type jobs, however), nor did I say tenure (job security is pretty strong, however, as long as you don't show up drunk/excessively date students/tell the whole class they're morons for believing in Christianity and tell your boss to fuck off repeatedly/repeatedly discuss practical drug use/other real world examples which I trust you can avoid...and note you'll have to repeat such behavior before getting fired). Maybe my estimate of 75k is high, but 60k is quite easy to achieve, at least with a CS graduate degree. Factor in benefits, however, and 75k is easy.

Our current CS teacher is a refugee from hurricane obliteration; she was the only one who applied for the position. The previous guy was a dinosaur who loved to talk about the 'punch card' days...brilliant old man, and, again, the only applicant, who we only managed to get through offering much higher pay than what the other faculty get.

She's threatening to leave soon, and the college will be pretty screwed (for accreditation reasons, we need such a faculty member)...if there are a bunch of CS graduate degree holders willing to work for reduced pay in academia, sure hope they show up this time, because they haven't previously.

The folks with advanced degrees who complain how hard it is to get a job are the ones with bogus degrees...MBAs, Ph.D.s in Sociology/Gender Studies/African-American studies/Education, stuff like that. We just hired a new math faculty for a new position...number of applicants? 4.

Unemployment is above 20% (using real measures), and we get 4 applicants. Four times as many as we get for CS, but still not alot.

Believe it, or leave it...or go find some 'want ads' for academic positions, and do the math on what the job actually entails.

[Lago PARANOIA]

Sorry for bumping an old thread. But.

If being a Computer Science professor is that cushy, why don't I switch majors to computer science like, right now and get a masters in that?

[cthulhu]

You cannot plan this stuff just get the degree, apply for graduate positions and take it from there

[Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp]

Generally speaking you should choose a career based on something that you would enjoy doing! Not necessarily the best money-maker. That being said one nice thing about Engineering is Co-ops and internships. Take a semester or summer off and work for a company. Get paid decently, get experience in your field and decide if that's the field you want to be in.

[Wesley Street]

The jobs that make you the most money are the jobs that will make you want to slit your wrists. Unless you enjoy working 100 hour weeks as a Wall Street douchebag.

[Blasted]

Sorry for bumping an old thread. But.

If being a Computer Science professor is that cushy, why don't I switch majors to computer science like, right now and get a masters in that?

Then say 'to hell with working with computers', and take your master's degree and go work in academia.

I agree with this.

I've worked both as academia and with academia in CS and I think it's a breeze, that doesn't pay as well as 'standard' job.
For academia, your other option is getting a phd, doing a bunch of research and hope to pick up a uni position.

You do have to deal with students though. That occasionally sucks.

The Electrical Engineering grads always seemed to get high paying jobs, though.

[mean_liar]

The jobs that make you the most money are the jobs that will make you want to slit your wrists. Unless you enjoy working 100 hour weeks as a Wall Street douchebag.

This is not necessarily true, unless by "most money" you mean more than $150k a year.

[Doom]

Good threadnomancy.

Our previous new math guy left, and we hired another math guy. A nearby college lost their math guy too...they asked me twice to cover even some of the extra classes, because they simply don't have any qualified applicants, like I'm going to commute (kinda why I moved to the boondocks in the first place). They ended up just cancelling classes, refunding student money.

So, advanced math degrees are still good.

CS is still good, too, in my opinion.

I'm going to throw in "make sure you enjoy what you're planning to do", but that's not exactly the title of the thread.

If you can get your masters RIGHT NOW, do so, but there can be freakish flexibility in grad school, once you get through enough hoops to get through the door. A friend of mine transferred from a Ph.D. program in Mathematic to English, didn't even change universities (stayed with me at Tulane)...'who you know' is useful, as always.

Get the degree that you can get most quickly, cheaply, and leads to easy entrance to grad school...for maximum flexibility, take mathematics/engineering courses, and avoid psych courses (yes, I'm biased but lots, lots, lots more folks get psych degrees than math degrees, and supply/demand and all that).

All my engineering friends did get high paying jobs...but I think only one managed to keep his job any length of time. I'd rather stay in one place and get 40k a year for five years than move all over the place and get 100k for three of five years, and nothing for the other two years.

[The Lunatic Fringe]

(yes, I'm biased but lots, lots, lots more folks get psych degrees than math degrees, and supply/demand and all that).

You're ignoring the 'demand' bit. Lot's of people want therapists.

[CatharzGodfoot]

(yes, I'm biased but lots, lots, lots more folks get psych degrees than math degrees, and supply/demand and all that).

You're ignoring the 'demand' bit. Lot's of people want therapists.

This is true, but the real monies are for those who go to medical school. A good old fashioned PhD won't let you prescribe drugs after talking to someone for 15 minutes.

[The Lunatic Fringe]

(yes, I'm biased but lots, lots, lots more folks get psych degrees than math degrees, and supply/demand and all that).

You're ignoring the 'demand' bit. Lot's of people want therapists.

This is true, but the real monies are for those who go to medical school. A good old fashioned PhD won't let you prescribe drugs after talking to someone for 15 minutes.

But it does let you retain self-respect. (And there are a couple of states that allow phds to proscribe meds with some additional training. Probably will be more in the future)

But this is a digression, I believe that Lago wanted to minimize work.

[Lago PARANOIA]

That is correct. I want to minimize work while maximizing money--as long as it isn't so little money to not have the pleasures in life like health insurance, shelter, and videro james.

This means a job where I make 30,000 working 10 hours a week is preferable to one making 100,000 working 40 hours a week.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

I'd say try to get adopted into a rich family so they can set you up in a position like that. What you are wanting is a privilege not permitted to those born without means.

Best you can hope for is to work your ass off so your kids start off better than you did. Your success in life is mostly determined by where you started on the board, then by luck, then finally by hard work and all that crap. If you don't have the first two there's a cap on what you can accomplish with the third.

[Ganbare Gincun]

That is correct. I want to minimize work while maximizing money--as long as it isn't so little money to not have the pleasures in life like health insurance, shelter, and videro james.

This means a job where I make 30,000 working 10 hours a week is preferable to one making 100,000 working 40 hours a week.

You're going to be working 40+ hours a week in a miserable job no matter what you do. Better to get a job where you can be sure that you're going to have enough cash to retire instead of having to work another 20 soul-crushing years.

And all of those Wall Street douchebags that worked 100 hour weeks to destroy America's economy? They're all in Costa Rica right now, living the high life.

[RobbyPants]

I'd say try to get adopted into a rich family so they can set you up in a position like that. What you are wanting is a privilege not permitted to those born without means.

Best you can hope for is to work your ass off so your kids start off better than you did. Your success in life is mostly determined by where you started on the board, then by luck, then finally by hard work and all that crap. If you don't have the first two there's a cap on what you can accomplish with the third.

I agree somewhat, but I think you're undervaluing work. Privilege is certainly going to be important for your baseline; I won't argue that.

Luck can be powerful enough to have a serious outcome on your success, but for your average person, it won't. There's a certain amount of "bad luck" that happens to everyone, be it in the form of random car maintenance, home repairs, and what-not. Still, while any given mishap is hard to predict, the net effect is predictable. If your average person make allowances for that and plans long term, they'll be in a better position to deal with those things when they happen, and they'll appear to be more "lucky" than the guy who didn't plan.

Again, I'm not saying that someone can't get colossally screwed by bad luck, but that's not the norm. It's just that people with a high external locus of control tend to blame stuff more on luck than on work.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

I agree somewhat, but I think you're undervaluing work.

Hard work is just assumed to be the baseline. The luckiest child of the richest man in the world can easily fail hard if he doesn't want to work. If I've learned anything, it's to never underestimate the depths to which someone (even yourself) can fail.

I've known too many people that work multiple jobs, 60-80 hours a week that can't pull themselves out of poverty.

[Doom]

Pulling out of poverty takes more than just a couple of jobs (though that helps), you need a clue what to do with the money.

My gf, the father of her children makes more than I do, but doesn't own his home, car (well, sort of owns, but never keeps it long enough to pay the note), or anything at all, really. She was married to the guy for 14ish years, and the divorce settlement was easy, no assets.

Every few years, he buys a new car ...and a new boat...blows alot on weed and recreational chemicals. Has no savings, so every time something comes up, just goes deeper in debt.

I know, kids are pricey (I'm paying some of those bills now, since there's no child support or alimony), but 60+ k a year should be enough to at least pay a 'sudden' bill for $100 without going deeper into 'poverty'.

[Doom]

You're going to be working 40+ hours a week in a miserable job no matter what you do. Better to get a job where you can be sure that you're going to have enough cash to retire instead of having to work another 20 soul-crushing years.

Not necessarily, although certainly possible.

My alarm clock is set at 9:30 am. I get to my office around 10ish. I'm home before 3:30 (unless I stop at Wal-Mart). That's every day this week (ok, an unusually consistent schedule, but total hours are the same regardless, every semester).

In addition to the 'usual' holidays and spring break, I'm basically off mid-December to mid-January, and mid-May to mid-August.

No, I don't make that much money, but that's because I like doing other things (mailing off manuscript to my third novel today, for example). If I really wanted to work more, I could break 50k easily (teach one more class), and 70k if I really pushed (work in summer)...that's the easy money, I might get more if I went for grants and got lucky.

No, the job isn't perfect, but I used to be a stockbroker and treecutter (in the 80s)...the bad stuff in my job now (worst is a week of stupid meetings every semester) is nothing compared to other jobs. I'll concede I'm lucky to have this job, but I'm no child of privilege (Dad was an insurance claims adjuster, Mom part-time real estate agent, mostly raised the kids, though).

And I'd re-think "cash to retire"...cash is dangerous thing to hold, especially of late, and retirement isn't a good thing...if a gypsy teller told me I'd be doing this at 120, I'd be thrilled at the good news (if I believed such rot). The only excuse for not doing working at *something* is being completely incapable of doing so.

Get a job you'd be comfortable doing for the next 60 or so years....at least, that's my advice, above and beyond paying sufficiently.