Any settings that strike out against the Fantasy Status Quo?

[Prak]

Actually, I guess this is what you get when you put a fantasy nerd in an anthro class.

Start of making a world trying to subvert the fantasy status quo.

[K]

The problem tends to be that the more a setting makes sense, the harder it gets to put adventures into it.

So the Old Eshtar novels by Lawrence Watt-Evans may have a magic system and a society that makes sense, it's also remarkably stable so things like necromancer invasions don't happen.

But Glen Cook's or China Melville novels are bullshit crazy and make no sense, but I could see fitting any number of conflicts into either. Heck, China Melville even has fighters that don't suck because they run around with badass unique artifacts from dead civilizations.

Feist's Riftwar Saga or Terry Brook's various Tolkien rip-offs are probably the best middle ground. Both are predicated on vast empty wildernesses and wild magic occasionally spawning badness and dead civilizations with various artifacts everywhere. (In one of Terry Brook's novels, one of the main characters literally finds his artifact dagger in a hole in the ground in the wilderness. This not me being cute and describing a cave or a temple or well or even pit.... it was a small hole.)

[Judging__Eagle]

Right now, I'm working on the Nippon sections of Heartbreaker; the PCs ended up smack between Kyoto and Osaka, and are heading south after fighting some dragons and spellcasters.

That could be problematic for them, even if they reach unforested territory, since the Alfar of the Woods are just as much citizens and samurai under the Emperor, as the Hobgoblins, Goblins, Burahobbits, Yahoos, Uruks, Drow and Robota are.

Maybe if they go into Oni Territory, will they be free from all pursuit.

In any case, I'm personally trying to find a middle path between:

1) Franks Kitchensink Roleplaying [probably the best source when trying to populate a region with appropriate creatures]
2) Races of War: A World at War content
3) My own modifications to the Kitchensink Roleplaying species [science-fiction to make the fantasy more interesting, more credible, and deeper overall]

Specifcally that the 13 Globals are all able to do something that allows them to flourish on a global scale in most parts of the world. For example, instead of being just Carbon-adapted, Drow are straight up Carbo-Silicate creatures, eating high-potency acid, ash and sand, and rely on sunlight to recharge their internal batteries. They're one of several lithoverous species, and one of several high-mineral to body-mass species. White hair is made up of silicate fibers, and jet black skin is carbon and photovoltaic cells making up their dermis. They're also Global smiths (the ash byproduct and sand needed to run a good forge are their main consumption needs. Consequently, every master smith in any community is a Drow, b/c anything else would be illogical for most people.

Of course, I really get pissed how humans are always special and not monsters. So, I specifically made is so that Burahobbits/Yahoos/Uruks are all monsters and more monstrous than most of their neighbours and allies (specifically, they are Doppleganger descendants; in their natural form, they look more like forward-leaning tailed reptiles with thick bone spikes coming out of their spines and from their joints, also long claws; even bugbears look more like "people" than that). All three races of this species willingly wear an "obvious" form (ie. looking like a human-ish type thing, ash white to super dark skin, usually in peachy-tones, round ear tops, varying facial hair, head hair, minimal body hair), which nothing else looks like; and is less frightening than the assassin-form that is natural to them. The 'why' they are around, and look the way that they do is related to when they originally arrived. As a result of their capabilities and history, when in their "obvious" form, no one refuses them entrance, as long as they swear to "not reveal what they see here" (the original oath their ancestors used when planning with the natives of this planet against their creators). Otherwise, any location can never trust the appearance of anyone ever again that tries to enter a place that a Dopple-descended so nicely asked for permission, eventually they'll abduct (or worse) someone who leaves, steal their memory, and enter with their credentials, worst of all, they didn't swear to keep what they see a secret. Of course, this doesn't mean that a cunning Doppleganger can't speak in riddles in order to have allies figure out what they saw; but that's never a sure thing, and while Dopples are allowed access, their allies are very often not.

Goblinoids get to use Ammonia power-station theory, and rely on establishing and maintaining a constant heat differences in their body in order to "feed". Hobs work out a lot, Gobs wear heavy cloaks, and thick mufflers and masks, but go around in bare feet, Bugs shave off fur they don't want, and can meditate their way to being "full" as long as they have say, their hands and feet bare. They all get orange skin, but also blue crystalline teeth (poisonous ammonia!); and this explains why Hobgoblins and Bugbears sometimes have blue noses (really, they drink their equivalent of Windex, along with Blue Dye; a Gob with a blue nose is like a kid with a milk moustache). Gobs drink pee, which they collect from bathrooms they operate, this gets to be very sticky if brought up, no one wants to be banned from all Goblin restrooms forever (or unless you perform a quest for them), so most people wouldn't dare make light of the fact that a Goblins chief dietary need, is the waste product of other species (Hobs and Bugs only drink the refined product in Blue form; and they are even worse to annoy).

Basically... trying to get stuff that already exists; make it work within the global setting, and try and give some nods to the pre-existing material; hopefully explaining trivial seeming details in monster descriptions into something that. Also, try and get some science and other lessons taught.

I don't want Roman Legionarre analogs, I want actual Roman Legionarres (Hobgoblins, Uruks, Robota, Yahoo, Alfar, Dveurge/Dorf, Gith, Cambion, are all species that make up the Roman Legions). Which means I can just do history research when planning, equipping and describing different societies.

Here's an other thing to add to the list of things that are Fantasy Status Quo:

[*] Countries that are veiled descriptions of actual or historical nations

[JigokuBosatsu]

@Prak I looked at that thread. I was going to reply, but nothing really jumped out at me yet. So far it was sounding like Wind in the Willows.

@K You've kind of nailed the difference between those two styles. Both are great, but the setting definitely interfaces with plot in a very distinct way. I've actually been rereading my Watt-Evans, and now I have figured out why I preferred the Lords of Dus series to the Ethshar- his overly-analytical POV works much better for a lawful neutral hobgoblin samurai than it does for random townsfolk/soldiers/merchant's sons.

Anyway, it's true- I would rather play in Mieville than Watt-Evans, unless I were crazy high level.

@Judging Eagle You and your setting are fucking insane, but it's tickling my fancy at the moment. More please.

[Prak]

@Prak I looked at that thread. I was going to reply, but nothing really jumped out at me yet. So far it was sounding like Wind in the Willows.

Never read it, tell me what the actual issue is.

If it's too poetic, well, that's the way I tend to write. If it sounds too much like Genesis, well, like I said there, I was raised Catholic, so that style for world development stories stuck with me.

[JigokuBosatsu]

Anthropomorphic animals.

Sorry, don't have anything concrete as far as criticism- just feelings. I would like to see more of it to get a better idea of how the demihuman races are going to play out.

[Prak]

They're only about as anthropomorphic as humans are anthropomorphic monkeys. Ok, slightly more, I gave goblins a tail. No, anthro-animals is for a different world, this one is just "this race evolved from something like these, and kept these traits."

[JigokuBosatsu]

Less chat, more Splat!

[kzt]

Why has no one made a game where you play as orcs, and kill elves for these underlying reasons?

There is Glorantha, but they are trolls instead of orcs. And the elves are actually plants. And very tasty.

[Prak]

Why has no one made a game where you play as orcs, and kill elves for these underlying reasons?

There is Glorantha, but they are trolls instead of orcs. And the elves are actually plants. And very tasty.

That's really the main reason trolls kill anything in Glorantha, and trolls are actually pretty neutral when not targeting your village in a shopping trip.

[Mystic Mongol]

Glorantha might be what Lago's looking for, here. The gods are distant and powerful, but if you don't like them or what they did, it's possible to take on their role during historical events and change what they did. As a result, in-setting legends are less 'what the gods did' and more 'what powerful priests thought the gods should have done.' There's recognition of just how rough things are at the time--most of the wars are about food and land and trade rights, not about how the rival country is worshiping the wrong god.

As for the science... well, the dwarves did build themselves their own god and march it into battle once, and they pursue technological advancement to this day, but no one really gets along with them.

[Username17]

As for the science...

As for science, Glorantha is flat and covered by a crystalline dome. Physical principles do not exist in Glorantha. Not that the world operates in defiance of physics like most fantasy settings (although of course it does), but that the setting explicitly tells you that science does not and cannot work.

Heavy objects fall faster than light ones, there is no principle of buoyancy, and none of Newton's laws are observable or even correct. Glorantha is a terrible fucking world and I can't even imagine playing a character in it. I don't mean that it's so shitty that I wouldn't want to play a character (although I do), but that Stafford went so far overboard in stressing his "don't stress the mundane physics details" that I literally have no frame of reference for shit like "jumping" or "throwing objects".

For fuck's sake, in Glorantha, if you're standing on a chair and you jump off it, the chair doesn't fall down. Because there's no equal and opposite reaction against the surface you were standing on when you jump. I can't even imagine ordinary physical interactions in such a universe. Because there are no ordinary physical interactions. Glorantha is like the absolute farthest any setting can possibly be from one in which you could plausibly advance things technically and socially. The fundamental manner in which things operate isn't merely unknown by the populace - it's explicitly false and replaced with nothing but late sixties style jibbering.

-Username17

[Prak]

As for the science...

As for science, Glorantha is flat and covered by a crystalline dome. Physical principles do not exist in Glorantha. Not that the world operates in defiance of physics like most fantasy settings (although of course it does), but that the setting explicitly tells you that science does not and cannot work.

Heavy objects fall faster than light ones, there is no principle of buoyancy, and none of Newton's laws are observable or even correct. Glorantha is a terrible fucking world and I can't even imagine playing a character in it. I don't mean that it's so shitty that I wouldn't want to play a character (although I do), but that Stafford went so far overboard in stressing his "don't stress the mundane physics details" that I literally have no frame of reference for shit like "jumping" or "throwing objects".

For fuck's sake, in Glorantha, if you're standing on a chair and you jump off it, the chair doesn't fall down. Because there's no equal and opposite reaction against the surface you were standing on when you jump. I can't even imagine ordinary physical interactions in such a universe. Because there are no ordinary physical interactions. Glorantha is like the absolute farthest any setting can possibly be from one in which you could plausibly advance things technically and socially. The fundamental manner in which things operate isn't merely unknown by the populace - it's explicitly false and replaced with nothing but late sixties style jibbering.

-Username17

My GM basically said "Basic physics stuff like jumping works out to the same results but it's magical pixie dust not science."

But yeah, the lack of science was a serious sticking point for me because I had no frame of reference, and my expectations were off.

Yes the Dwarfs have technology. That technology is ritual magic, though. Seriously, their gunpowder requires special rolls to even go off.

[kzt]

We ignored most of the stupid shit in Glorantha. For that matter, everyone I can remember on the Glorantha list, including Sandy Peterson, ignored it. Yes, the world is flat, the sky is a dome, the underworlds is under, etc but normal things at an normal human observable scale work as expected (or as the Greeks expected anyhow). If you conduct controlled experiments they would show all sorts of weird crap, but the whole "scientific method" doesn't exist, so nobody does that.

It's a fun place to play, but it's such a huge difference from the typical DnD setting it's hard. Plus there is a huge amount of material out there if you look, but a lot of interesting areas don't actually have enough info that you can run a campaign without making lots of stuff up.

[CCarter]

The problem tends to be that the more a setting makes sense, the harder it gets to put adventures into it...

Feist's Riftwar Saga or Terry Brook's various Tolkien rip-offs are probably the best middle ground.

This probably agrees with your point if anything but Feists' kingdom map is really wacky - its massively and arbritrarily spread out, in spite of a huge evil empire next door. The map seems to be drawn so that the original trip to tell the king about the Tsurani invasion in Magician can literally go from one end of the kingdom to the other, through storm-tossed seas etc. etc.

[Prak]

If you conduct controlled experiments they would show all sorts of weird crap, but the whole "scientific method" doesn't exist, so nobody does that.

Technically it does, the Godlearners use itm which is why their magic is special, but everyone thinks they're crazy for doing that, and it doesn't make gravity suddenly exist, but it is sort of the scientific method.

It's a fun place to play, but it's such a huge difference from the typical DnD setting it's hard.

And if D&D, and it's dungeonpunk worlds are your main fantasy frame of reference, it's nigh-impossible.

But I mean, Glorantha only strikes out against the fantasy status quo in that it says "but that's not far enough!" and blazing even further into the SQ's bullshit.