Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:50 am
I am slightly more depressed about my hobby now.
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Sure:A Man In Black wrote:I'm backfitting, here. Can you come up with a better definition that includes as much stuff people have described as "nerdy shit" and doesn't include anything nonsensical?
Hurray for the human psychological tendency towards retroactive overjustification!Chamomile wrote:No one has to actually get laid during the hobby. You just have to convince people it can happen, and people will convince themselves they bought it because of how awesome model railroading is after they by it to get laid but don't.
No, you have this backwards.Dominicius wrote:
Another good example of legitimization is comic books. They were once considered a geek only thing but with
Being ashamed of what you like and trying to hide it is a negative nerd trait that should be eliminated.They even changed the name from comics to "graphic novels
I wouldn't sweat that. Michael Bay doesn't make art, he makes money. Really, don't worry about it.and if we could get people to view roleplaying as a form of art.
This is a really stupid comment, this is the HEART of the nerd root you want to move away from, being an elitist nerd. This attitude is what's killed your hobbyWhat I am about to say is going to sound extremely elitist but it is the sad truth, most DM have no idea how to run a game.
I've thought about this before. I was introduced to D&D by my older brothers, they were Varsity football players.What do all of you think about this? Am I rambling or have all of you been thinking something similar?
This is why the hobby's dying. More than anything, Nerds are spiteful and jealous people. The 4e rules are fine, the 3e rules are fine, the AD&D rules are fine, they facilitate roleplaying fine. Only obsessive nerds get so riled up with edition wars.And lastly, actually design a good game. Almost everything that WotC did when designing 4e was fucking atrocious. We all know how Pathfinder now sells more books than 4e and that should tell you something about the quality of the product. The
It sounds like you're trying to legitimize being a 'nerd' though.2. Today's nerds are tomorrow's influential citizens. In another thirty years, there will literally be no one of importance in first-world countries who did not at some point play a video game, a tabletop RPG, or partake in a similarly "nerdy" activity.
3. "Legitimization" is a sucker's game, because you're working at cross purposes with how products are supposed to naturally evolve. It's significantly smarter and more simple to just improve the product until its quality attracts more customers, at which point "legitimacy" will be spontaneously redefined to include the product.
That's actually a really good point. Though I'd argue that there's some real literature buried in all the dross: The Sandman is especially a standout, Watchmen should be celebrated, V for Vendetta (the comic, not the atrocious movie), and a few others. They tell interesting, deep stories, and I've met people who most certainly are not geeky/nerds who have read and really gotten into it.OgreBattle wrote: No, you have this backwards.
Comic books used to be for everybody. There were Romance, Horror, adventure and whatnot. Comic books were widely read by US soldiers in world war 2. Disney was contracted to make training manuals and videos, where you can see cartoon animals teaching Americans how to kill japs.
Comic books were regulated to the niche of nerddom because of the Comics Code authority branding the medium only for children, and being largely replaced by TV and movies. Then the edginess of the 90's gave them a retarded makeover, because nerds are edgy people.
The only comic books that get read are ones with movie tie ins. There little no love for the art itself left in America. And most of those movies suck.
Comic books are more accepted in Italy, France, and Asia though. Generally cultures with a natural appreciation of visual art like them.
Probably another really good point. New editions are meant to fix the errors of old editions, but are only particularly appealing to dedicated gamers. When my girlfriend says she wants to play vampire with me, she doesn't care if it's first edition or revised or masquerade or Requiem, she gets to pretend to be a vampire for a couple hours and if the storyteller has their shit together that's "good enough". She'll never really powergame to the point where she can see the engine limitations of VTM or the antiseptic dryness of Requiem.This is why the hobby's dying. More than anything, Nerds are spiteful and jealous people. The 4e rules are fine, the 3e rules are fine, the AD&D rules are fine, they facilitate roleplaying fine. Only obsessive nerds get so riled up with edition wars.And lastly, actually design a good game. Almost everything that WotC did when designing 4e was fucking atrocious. We all know how Pathfinder now sells more books than 4e and that should tell you something about the quality of the product. The
If you want "the hobby to move beyond its nerd roots", the minute differences between D&D editions don't matter at all.
The problem is, the further you move the nerd goalposts towards mainstream, the further nerds move away from mainstream. That's really the point. Nerds avoid mainstream, sort of like hipsters, but hipsters avoid mainstream as a status symbol. Nerds avoid it because it's not comfortable. Trying to mainstream/legitimize something like D&D means you essentially have one shot. If you fuck it up, the nerds abandon the thing like rats fleeing a sinking ship, feeling too much like they're in the spotlight, while the mainstream ignores it because it sucks, and you're left with fanboys who support, vocally, any dross you put out. Which alienates even more potential fans from both ends of the spectrum.2. Today's nerds are tomorrow's influential citizens. In another thirty years, there will literally be no one of importance in first-world countries who did not at some point play a video game, a tabletop RPG, or partake in a similarly "nerdy" activity.
I wouldn't go that far. It's pretty bad, but let's not forget it was Western Nerd Culture, the fear of nuclear obliteration, and the desire to go to the moon that literally created the information age. Asia may have taken to the Internet and the information age better, but western nerd culture invented it.Western Nerd Culture is a horrible, toxic place and there's no saving it. Enjoy being the last captain of the ship, or swim away. If you want to change the hobby, change yourself.