What did dragons horde before the younger races existed

[crasskris]

Actually, dragons don't care that much about shiny things, and they didn't hoard any of them before humanoid races showed up.

But humanoids care about shiny things, and humanoids are the lobster and guinea fowl in a dragon's diet. And if the humanoids know that there is lots of bling in a dragon's cave, they might come a-looking.

So basically the hoard is the equivalent of a menu of a delicacy delivery service.

[Surgo]

Actually, dragons don't care that much about shiny things, and they didn't hoard any of them before humanoid races showed up.

But humanoids care about shiny things, and humanoids are the lobster and guinea fowl in a dragon's diet. And if the humanoids know that there is lots of bling in a dragon's cave, they might come a-looking.

So basically the hoard is the equivalent of a menu of a delicacy delivery service.

Not only does this not jive with pretty much any established literature, it's a completely stupid plan. You're giving people an incentive to walk right into the middle of your fortress where you're weakest -- in a completely nonpredictable timeframe, at that, so when you get hungry there isn't even guaranteed to be food -- instead of going out and picking off a few stragglers.

[Sashi]

This is actually a great explanation in a game where Dragons aren't intelligent.

But Dragons as we know them in D&D, Shadowrun, and other games are supergeniuses, them going "ooh shiny!" just doesn't jive.

Humans are intelligent, yet humans go apeshit over boobs because "ooh cleavage!".

If Dragons get boners over gold hoards ... then they're gonna hoard gold. It really is that simple, even for supergeniuses who understand that there's no logical reason for them to hoard gold.

[Soda]

Also, you can buy things.

[Agent_0042]

I feel like that pony should have a scarf.

I like scarves. Scarves are nifty.

[OgreBattle]

Dragons existed before most everything else on the earth... but there was still the Sun and the Stars in the sky. Perhaps the spent countless aeons underneath this empty world under celestial lights.

A fixation on Gold, Gems, and other shinies could harken back to the dawn of their race, it reminds them of the glittering lights of the world when it was young.

[JigokuBosatsu]

Is it too late to chime in with "your mom"?

[Whatever]

Is it too late to chime in with "your mom"?

If your mom is wrong, I don't want to be right.

[crasskris]

Not only does this not jive with pretty much any established literature, it's a completely stupid plan.

Not that I was that serious, but

You're giving people an incentive to walk right into the middle of your fortress where you're weakest

a) it isn't a fortress if it is "the place where you're weakest" - a fortress implies walls, guardians and perhaps traps
b) I didn't say anything about opening the complete path to the inner sanctum
c) hoarding in general, and thusly all other explanations, give the exact same incentive

-- in a completely nonpredictable timeframe, at that, so when you get hungry there isn't even guaranteed to be food -- instead of going out and picking off a few stragglers.

I'm not sure if you understand what a delicacy is. Here's a hint: most people don't gorge themselves with it when they are hungry. It's more of a treat.[/i]

[virgil]

Vector the Time Pony
Mutated Horse
Alignment Scrupulous
Attributes: I.Q. 24, M.E. 21, M.A. 19, P.S. 22, P.P. 12, P.E. 27, P.B. 13, Spd 20
Age 28 Sex Male
Size Level 14
Hit Points 66 S.D.C. 81
Disposition Places great importance in wisdom and discipline, despite being a bit of a rebel himself; as he was told that going back in time for something as frivolous as "what did dragons hoard before civilization?" was a dangerous waste of energy. When threatened, Vector will confound and taunt his enemy.
Human Features: Hands - None, Biped - Partial, Speech - Full, Powers - None, Looks - None, Psionics - None
Level of Experience: 6
Level of Education: 4 years of college
Scholastic Bonus - +20%
Scholastic Skills: Astrophysics (91%), Biology (98%), Botany (98% Chemistry (Basic, 98%; Analytical, 98%), Mathematics (Basic 98%; Advanced 98%), Navigation (Time 98%), Read Sensory Equipment (98%), Weapon Systems (98%), Pilot (Time Barn; 98%), Running, Swimming (98%), Athletics, Acrobatics (Balance 98%)
Secondary Skills Hand to Hand: Basic, Prowl (98%), Language (Native Gallopfrey, Equestrian, Draconic, Lunar-Speak; 96%), Land Navigation (75%), Wilderness Survival (81%), Sing (81%), Dance (81%), Mechanical Engineer (86%)
Combat Skills
Attacks per Melee 3
Natural Weapons 1d6 Hoof
Bonuses +3 Strike, +3 Parry, +5 Dodge, +9 Damage, +5 Roll w/Punch or Fall, +1 to Pull

[Surgo]

You're giving people an incentive to walk right into the middle of your fortress where you're weakest

a) it isn't a fortress if it is "the place where you're weakest" - a fortress implies walls, guardians and perhaps traps
b) I didn't say anything about opening the complete path to the inner sanctum
c) hoarding in general, and thusly all other explanations, give the exact same incentive

a) Fortresses are designed to keep people *out*, not let them in.
b) Literature has dragons sleeping on their piles of stuff.
c) Yeah, but they don't necessarily give stupid reasoning to get there. I'm particularly partial to the "superstimulus" explanation given in this thread.

[OgreBattle]

Vector the Time Pony
Mutated Horse
Alignment Scrupulous
Attributes: I.Q. 24, M.E. 21, M.A. 19, P.S. 22, P.P. 12, P.E. 27, P.B. 13, Spd 20
Age 28 Sex Male
Size Level 14
Hit Points 66 S.D.C. 81
Disposition Places great importance in wisdom and discipline, despite being a bit of a rebel himself; as he was told that going back in time for something as frivolous as "what did dragons hoard before civilization?" was a dangerous waste of energy. When threatened, Vector will confound and taunt his enemy.
Human Features: Hands - None, Biped - Partial, Speech - Full, Powers - None, Looks - None, Psionics - None
Level of Experience: 6
Level of Education: 4 years of college
Scholastic Bonus - +20%
Scholastic Skills: Astrophysics (91%), Biology (98%), Botany (98% Chemistry (Basic, 98%; Analytical, 98%), Mathematics (Basic 98%; Advanced 98%), Navigation (Time 98%), Read Sensory Equipment (98%), Weapon Systems (98%), Pilot (Time Barn; 98%), Running, Swimming (98%), Athletics, Acrobatics (Balance 98%)
Secondary Skills Hand to Hand: Basic, Prowl (98%), Language (Native Gallopfrey, Equestrian, Draconic, Lunar-Speak; 96%), Land Navigation (75%), Wilderness Survival (81%), Sing (81%), Dance (81%), Mechanical Engineer (86%)
Combat Skills
Attacks per Melee 3
Natural Weapons 1d6 Hoof
Bonuses +3 Strike, +3 Parry, +5 Dodge, +9 Damage, +5 Roll w/Punch or Fall, +1 to Pull

how many Bio-E points is he?

[crasskris]

a) Fortresses are designed to keep people *out*, not let them in.
b) Literature has dragons sleeping on their piles of stuff.
c) Yeah, but they don't necessarily give stupid reasoning to get there. I'm particularly partial to the "superstimulus" explanation given in this thread.

a) Are dragons in literature also stapled to their hoards? Is there any reason they can't go out, eat the adventurers knocking on their door, and go back inside?

b) Last time I checked this was a rpg-centered forum, not a book club. Dragons hunting you the second you enter their domain make for more interesting opponents - and thus adventures - than lazy-ass dragons who sleep on their pile of gold until a critical number of their minions/traps has been overcome by the adventurers.
And yes, it is a different idea than 'dragons are giant fire-breathing magpies'. The original question wasn't 'what books did you read about dragons', it was a call for ideas.

c) The inability or unwillingness to use your brain to fill the blanks does not imply the stupidity of others.

[FatR]

Dragons in almost every setting are always "super ancient, older than everything" guys.

If by "almost every setting" you pretty much mean "Forgotten Realms". Well, FR not making much sense is not exactly news.

I've personally used two answers to "why dragons hoard shinies" in my games:

1)Dragons' greed for valuables of mortal races is actually meaningless from an objective viewpoint. It was instilled as a racial instinct so that they will have a reason to wreck mortals' shit.
2)Precious metals and gems are a part of dragon's lifecycle and surrounding oneself with them is necessary for a dragon to grow. That was in a setting where said precious metals and gems literally served as magical fuel, which you burned when creating items and casting spells with GP cots.

[Surgo]

a) Fortresses are designed to keep people *out*, not let them in.
b) Literature has dragons sleeping on their piles of stuff.
c) Yeah, but they don't necessarily give stupid reasoning to get there. I'm particularly partial to the "superstimulus" explanation given in this thread.

a) Are dragons in literature also stapled to their hoards? Is there any reason they can't go out, eat the adventurers knocking on their door, and go back inside?

b) Last time I checked this was a rpg-centered forum, not a book club. Dragons hunting you the second you enter their domain make for more interesting opponents - and thus adventures - than lazy-ass dragons who sleep on their pile of gold until a critical number of their minions/traps has been overcome by the adventurers.
And yes, it is a different idea than 'dragons are giant fire-breathing magpies'. The original question wasn't 'what books did you read about dragons', it was a call for ideas.

c) The inability or unwillingness to use your brain to fill the blanks does not imply the stupidity of others.

a) The fuck does this have to do with anything?
b) This thread is entirely about "why do dragons do this shit that literature has them do". I don't even understand WTF you're talking about at this point.
c) Sorry to have to tell you this, but both your idea and your reasoning are stupid.

[virgil]

how many Bio-E points is he?

Horses start at 0 & Size Level 18, so I shrank him to roughly pony size to get 20 BIO-E, which bought him the bonus SDC, speech, and partial bipedal stance. If necessary, I can remove the +10 SDC and give him a custom hands ability = as Equestrian ponies don't have hands, but have a kind of off-screen thumb power while using their mouths for everything else; so aren't terribly hindered.

[hyzmarca]

b) Literature has dragons sleeping on their piles of stuff.

There's one story I remember, don't recall exactly where I saw it or what the title was, in which dragons hoard large piles of gold coins because they make comfortable beds.

Basically, the coins will shift around under the dragons weigh, conforming to the contours of his body, without shifting around too much. Thus they provide excellent support. It's the same principle behind buckwheat hull pillows, which are extremely comfortable.

Gold is a soft metal, with a relatively high melting point, which is important for a dragon's bed. Dragons who snore can easily reduce lesser bedding to a fine cloud of ash in their sleep, or even accidentally melt lead pillows.

[DrPraetor]

Virgil - as a RIFTS character, and not a TMNT & Other Strangeness character per se, I believe that he should get a Rifts O.C.C. rather than educational skills packages.

If he were a Temporal Wizard, he'd be able to gallop back in time and mount your mom.

[Prak]

That's a good point, actually. Check the Lonestar book for the actual ruling.

[virgil]

Lone Star is actually pretty vague on the whole thing, and explicitly cites TMNT for extra material on designing other mutants that aren't the prestatted set (bear, rat, monkey, bat, and something else). I'll give you the Rifts OCC though, which will be forthcoming along with his travels. A Temporal Wizard is a terrible choice though, as they can't go backwards in time at all.

[erik]

The doctor can't really go back in time either. It's his artifact that can. That said, Temporal Wizard is still wrong since the Doctor doesn't do anything much supernatural other than live a long time, Resist(Sonic) and have a second heart. He's just experienced and canny for the most part. And has cool toys.

Rogue Scientist Pony with some toys wouldn't be unreasonable.

[Prak]

Wait, if a pony is a time lord, what are the Daleks? Dragons? Gryphons? Also, there needs to be a Master pony now...

[crasskris]

a) The fuck does this have to do with anything?
b) This thread is entirely about "why do dragons do this shit that literature has them do". I don't even understand WTF you're talking about at this point.
c) Sorry to have to tell you this, but both your idea and your reasoning are stupid.

a) Well, your argument is "it is stupid giving people an incentive to walk right into the middle of your fortress where you're weakest", to which I completely agree.
I can do that, because I never actually said what you chose to read into my words, and imply from there on.
All I said is that dragons might hoard because it attracts tasty treats. And then I said that the dragon does not have to let his guard down, and that he can and should protect itself, because you chose to go with the most stupid interpretation of my words possible.
And since you kept insisting on your idea that a dragon would have to let humans directly into his lair to eat them, I just pointed out that he could just as well eat them when they still stand before the doors of his fortress, attracted by the rumors of the dragon's hoard. Without, you know, actually letting them into the fortress or even close to the gold.

Now clear, or do need I to draw diagrams?

b) No it isn't. Nowhere in the first post the words 'in books' or 'in literature' appear. The only reference to a source is 'in almost every setting', which is a rpg term last I checked, not (or not exclusively) a writing one. And I frankly don't even have a clue where you picked up the notion that every suggestion presented needs to be backed by a citation of a literary source.
So yeah, I kinda can see why you are confused.

c) The inability or unwilling...oh wait, I already wrote that. Nevermind.

[virgil]

It's not that ponies are Time Lords, it's that there have been Time Lords visiting Equestria. The one you've commonly seen on the show, Time Turner, is actually the 10th Doctor; there was a background scene when Discord was causing havoc where he entered a blue Police Barn, but it was later cut out after it aired because BBC got persnickety. There already is a Master Pony, as confirmed by the developers.



My girlfriend's already made one for her collection, along with the First through Fourth, the Tenth, Eleventh, Susan, Amy, the TARDIS, River, Jack Sparrow, & Donna. She's planning on making the rest of the Doctor's incarnations, ensuring that each one has a companion or more; as well as the prior two incarnations of the Master, Rassilon, and a few others.

[Prak]

Wait, your girlfriend's made a TARDIS pony as in "looks like/has as a cutie mark, a blue police box" or as in "looks like this character*, ponified"

*