[Dom3] GESTALT DRAFT STARTED - WORKING ON MOD AND MAP

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:11 pm

You're missing some secret weapons. If you take Pangaea or Man as your second pick, your temples cost less. Pangaea also gets vine reanimation instead of skeleton reanimation. If you take Arco as your second pick, your labs cost less in addition to you getting improved scouting reports from inside your dominion. If you take Jotunheim or Ashdod as your second pick, your skeleton reanimations become a lot nastier because you have giant corpses.

-Username17

DrPraetor · Post by **DrPraetor** » Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:42 pm

Oh, good catches.

Updated.

Winnah · Post by **Winnah** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:21 am

I am not sure if special longdead types are moddable. If they are hardcoded, you will have to use your mod to overwrite that nation slot, otherwise, you will need to copy that nation slot in order to get that effect. This means that a Jotun/Atlantis hybrid will have either of their special longdead types, not both, depending on which nation is used as the base.

Same deal with things like Jotun Skinshifters. I am unsure how the effect of the Lyc amulet is coded. It may work with copied units, but I am unsure. I tried fucking around with this a while back in order to give Machaka special black, hyena skinshifters, but I did not get very far.

I am also unaware of the mod command for Arco's dominion effect. That is not to say it can't be 'added', but it would probably be better to use arco as the base nation in this instance.

That does not even touch upon national advantages granted by startsites, which are another clusterfuck. Special sites will have to be specifically referenced, and other nations that reference those sites will need to be cleared in order to prevent conflicts.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:58 am

The mod is made by adding spells, units, gems, and pretender options to the second pick nation. So if your second bit is Agartha, you are technically Agartha with a bunch of extra options. But that means that you get all the hard coded and soft coded advantages of Agartha. It means that you get the Golem Cult bonus to your magic being inanimate troops (a percentile hit point bonus within your dominion). It means you get Agartha's special heroes.

Some of the races have some pretty weird bonuses that are hard coded. For example, there is an event where you get a giant pile of ronin that can only happen if you happen to be playing Jomon and another event where you get a big pile of those Slavic spearmen that only triggers if you are Bogarus. And you'd get all of them from your second race and none of them from your first.

Note that some are actually disadvantageous. Caelumite Soulless are worse than regular Soulless. Taking Caelum as your second pick will actually make any zombie army you make weaker (as opposed to Atlantis, Rlyeh, Ctis, Bandar Log, Jotunheim, and Ashdod who all get stronger zombie armies).

-Username17

DrPraetor · Post by **DrPraetor** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:58 am

What Frank said. I'm not going to mod any of the hardcoded stuff - I'm just going to leave it alone for the second nation.

Now, I'd like to copy special site powers from the first nation onto the second - because 95% of the time this is possible, and the Void Gate is fun, and otherwise no-one will have it. And, conceptually, those special start-site features are like national spells or gem income and they ought to be copied.

However, this may not be possible with e.g. MA Mictlan.

If it's possible I'll do it for every player; if it isn't possible for any player I will avoid doing it for every player (does that make sense?).

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:22 pm

DrPraetor wrote:What Frank said. I'm not going to mod any of the hardcoded stuff - I'm just going to leave it alone for the second nation.

Now, I'd like to copy special site powers from the first nation onto the second - because 95% of the time this is possible, and the Void Gate is fun, and otherwise no-one will have it. And, conceptually, those special start-site features are like national spells or gem income and they ought to be copied.

However, this may not be possible with e.g. MA Mictlan.

If it's possible I'll do it for every player; if it isn't possible for any player I will avoid doing it for every player (does that make sense?).

It's totally possible. All you have to do is collapse the special sites of MA Mictlan (or other faction with a lot of startsites) and then add the special sites that actually do things.

I have no idea if there are any mod commands that will make a special site do what the House of Fiery Justice does, but you can jolly well just free up some space by replacing the Temple of the Moon and the Temple of the Sun with a new Temple that does all five things. Then just add the Temple of Fiery Justice in wholesale.

Mictlan pushes the borders of the possible by having 13 unique things that its starting sites make. But you can actually do 5 things with a single site, and you can have 4 start sites. Even mixed with Machaka it still works - because even though Machaka's sites make 9 unique things, two of those are things that Mictlan already happens to produce (Fire and Nature gems). So you have room (albeit only barely) to condense everything into four maxed out sites. Abysia and Ashdod are also close but still condense to just 19 of 20 slots filled when combined with Mictlan.

Mictlan literally cannot be combined with LA Pythium. But that is not a problem because LA Pythium sucks and we're doing Middle Era only.

-Username17

DrPraetor · Post by **DrPraetor** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:22 pm

My concern is more pragmatic but I'll see if replacing start sites w/out clearing the whole nation actually works.

--DrP

EDIT: It does work, but adding anything to a selected site clears it, so I'll have to be careful with the scripting. So R'lyeh and Marignon couldn't be combined with anyone who needs more than 12 capital-specific features - including fire and astral income (for Marignon) since I can't change the values on the HoJF without removing the holy fire effect.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:09 pm

DrPraetor wrote: EDIT: It does work, but adding anything to a selected site clears it, so I'll have to be careful with the scripting. So R'lyeh and Marignon couldn't be combined with anyone who needs more than 12 capital-specific features - including fire and astral income (for Marignon) since I can't change the values on the HoJF without removing the holy fire effect.

15 capital-specific features for Marignon. You can put 5 effects on a site, not 4.

Rlyeh needs both the gems and the Void Gate, but those gems can be appended to other sites that happen to produce Water or Astral. They would normally require a whole site for the Void gate and two slots for the gems (leaving 13 slots for the other faction), but if combined with MA Mictlan, the Water and Astral could simply be combined rather than left separate and you'd have 2 slots left.

-Username17

DrPraetor · Post by **DrPraetor** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:54 pm

So I still haven't heard from Winnah, if he is playing or not. If I don't hear from him by midnight, I'll just start the draft tomorrow?

Winnah is not playing. I randomized the list of players using the post-# for this post in srand.

Code: Select all

perl -e '&#123;@list = &#40;"DrPraetor","Korwin","AncientHistory","FrankTrollman","K","Archmage"&#41;; srand&#40;285653&#41;; @list = sort &#123;rand&#40;&#41; < rand&#40;&#41;&#125; @list; print "@list\n";&#125;'

K DrPraetor Korwin AncientHistory FrankTrollman Archmage

Updating the first post now.

K · Post by K » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:13 am

Well, there goes my chances of ever doing something synergistic and cool.

Bandar Log

DrPraetor · Post by **DrPraetor** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:36 am

Um... okay. Not what I expected you to pick, obviously.

Ashdod.

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:20 pm

Mictlan

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:21 pm

Agartha

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:46 pm

Ancient History wrote:...

Please tell me you are joking. It's a small game with experienced players. Could you please not put in joke bids or challenge bids at this early stage?

-Username17

DrPraetor · Post by **DrPraetor** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:49 pm

Maybe A.H. has some plan to use Agartha's national summons with... er... an underwater nation?

But yeah, A.H., before I record that bid, are you REALLY REALLY SURE?

--DrP

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:52 pm

Look, there are some things about Agartha's units I like, and if I pick it first then I can pick a better second nation like Abysia or R'lyeh and that'll take most of the suckiness out of it. Anyone that feels offended by that is welcome to steamroll me and then I'll never play Agartha-anything again.
[/edit]Alright, alright, I don't want to ruin the game for everybody else. Put me down for T'ien Ch'i.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:28 pm

Jotunheim.

-Username17

Archmage · Post by **Archmage** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:44 pm

I am assuming that if I gestalt R'lyeh with a land nation as my second nation, my land-based forts will produce R'lyeh's full spectrum of national units and not the coastal hybrids or whatever. (I realize this will leave me with a few unit types that I can't recruit because they'll suffocate, but I don't really care).

If that's correct, I'll take R'lyeh // Vanheim.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:20 pm

R'lyehan Freespawn is indeed a secret power of R'lyeh and you don't get it. Also, as you are not an aquatic nation you would not have the ability to make underwater PD or build underwater forts for cash. And if you built your Crab Hybrids, they would drown. Although I think that they should be modded in to be buildable in any underwater forts you happen to find.

Assuming you're OK with all that, I will take Man as my second pick.

-Username17

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:25 pm

Pangaea

Archmage · Post by **Archmage** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:27 pm

Yep, that's pretty much how I figured things would work. All part of the plan. As long as I can build the other R'ylehan national troops and commanders from land-based forts, I'm happy. The loss of crab hybrids is a sad thing, but that's not where my priorities lie. So yes, I'll stand with that decision.

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:31 pm

Abysia

DrPraetor · Post by **DrPraetor** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:54 pm

So... Korwin is either going to take Abysia (and laugh, because he gets blood magic with which to make fuck-tonnes of Mictlan demons), or he's going to take Ermor (and laugh, because he gets death magic - ain't never a bad thing - and all his cheap priests will get reanimation and undead leadership.)

OTOH, Mictlan already gets freespawn. So I think Abysia is more likely. Let's review my options.

I want B,A,W,N. N is relatively easy to find on indies, so not as high a priority as the other paths (especially blood and air.)

...

Ermor - I am astounded no-one took Ermor yet. Marignon-Ermor, for example, would be nuts, because you get 210 gp, lvl 3 priests *everywhere*. Then you blacken the sky with pale riders. But this gives me very little path diversity (1W and 1A on randoms out of my capital which I will never use). No temp scale.

Pythium - Gives me some path diversity (3A and 2W out of my capital, which I would use occasionally.) The gem income is a nice boost. No temp scale.

Abysia - I have demons of my own so of course this is what I want, even though the path diversity gain is poor otherwise - and every blood hunter costs me an Adon. So maybe not. Also, the temp scale is good with my existing units (who are mostly fire resistant).

Caelum - This gives me the magic diversity I want (except for blood) and not in my capital. Also has a temp scale - but very much not the temp scale I want! I could just put rime hauberks on every single Adon, I suppose.

Shinuyama - No temp scales, not a lot of magic diversity. But is pretty awesome, and does give me W and N.

Eriu - Like Pythium but not as good because I get N in exchange for less W and no bonus gem income.

...

Oy, it's a tough call.

DrPraetor · Post by **DrPraetor** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:57 pm

I hate you all.

Caelum. Here's looking at you, cold resistance gear which I'll be making in huge bulk!

K · Post by K » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:56 pm

Marignon

The Gaming Den

[Dom3] GESTALT DRAFT STARTED - WORKING ON MOD AND MAP

Which of these options is better?