Designing Monsters first, then PC's for your Heartbreaker
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OgreBattle
- King
- Posts: 6820
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:33 am
Here's some monster GTFO traits, might as well get them all down in one place. I'd appreciate any help on this, or ways to collapse different things into broad categories.
"I can't reach it"
The foe can come and go at its leisure
Flying: Can fly away from groundsloggers at will
Swims: disappears under the ocean surface after attacking
Burrows: disappears underground after attacking
Super Fast: just runs away when it wants to
Teleports: It disappears, or suddenly appears
Nightvision: you can't see it, it can see you
+Ranged att: It's killing you in the process of you not-killing it
"It's not very effective..."
The foe resists your attacks with ease
Really Tough: Too many hitpoints to burn though before it burns you
Ninja: Too evasive to be hit
Ghost: Can't be hit at all unless you have a ___
Spell Resistence: can't zap it with magic
Antimagic: magic items fail
Swarms: Can't quite be sworded or arrow'd to death
Special resilience: need adamantium/silver/wood
Regeneration: nullified by special means (fire, acid, etc.)
Undead: It doesn't stay dead unlesss you ____
"It's Super Effective! (against you)"
The foe's attacks crush you quickly
Closet troll: super hard hitting in melee
Jiujitsu Blackbelt: Grabs and freely molests the untrained.
Artillery: super hard hitting at range
Medusa: fight-ending effect has to be overcome (petrification, being dead, and so on)
Made of Fire: damaging aura radiates from it unless you have ____
"The Floor is Lava"
the environment itself impedes/kills you
underwater:
underground:
Mid-Air:
The floor IS Lava:
Everything is Fire:
"I can't reach it"
The foe can come and go at its leisure
Flying: Can fly away from groundsloggers at will
Swims: disappears under the ocean surface after attacking
Burrows: disappears underground after attacking
Super Fast: just runs away when it wants to
Teleports: It disappears, or suddenly appears
Nightvision: you can't see it, it can see you
+Ranged att: It's killing you in the process of you not-killing it
"It's not very effective..."
The foe resists your attacks with ease
Really Tough: Too many hitpoints to burn though before it burns you
Ninja: Too evasive to be hit
Ghost: Can't be hit at all unless you have a ___
Spell Resistence: can't zap it with magic
Antimagic: magic items fail
Swarms: Can't quite be sworded or arrow'd to death
Special resilience: need adamantium/silver/wood
Regeneration: nullified by special means (fire, acid, etc.)
Undead: It doesn't stay dead unlesss you ____
"It's Super Effective! (against you)"
The foe's attacks crush you quickly
Closet troll: super hard hitting in melee
Jiujitsu Blackbelt: Grabs and freely molests the untrained.
Artillery: super hard hitting at range
Medusa: fight-ending effect has to be overcome (petrification, being dead, and so on)
Made of Fire: damaging aura radiates from it unless you have ____
"The Floor is Lava"
the environment itself impedes/kills you
underwater:
underground:
Mid-Air:
The floor IS Lava:
Everything is Fire:
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Schleiermacher
- Knight-Baron
- Posts: 666
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:39 am
OgreBattle, most of those aren't GTFO abilities.
GTFO abilities are abilities that, no matter how good you are at your schtick, hose you unless you can counter them.
So of those you listed, only the following are GTFO abilities:
- Flying/Swims/Burrowing (but only with an actual attack that can be used from safety, otherwise the battle is just a draw -or, if the opponent has to come to you to attack, you can ready actions etc. and at least theoretically beat it, even if it's an uphill battle.)
-Ghost/Special resilience: Can't be hit/hurt at all unless you have a ___
(but Swarms are also cases of this: Can't be hurt unless you have a area attack. Technically, so's Antimagic: "can't be hurt unless you have a mundane attack", but how often does that apply?)
-Medusa: fight-ending effect has to be overcome (petrification, being dead, and so on)
Regarding your environment category, "you must be able to [fly/breathe water/resist fire indefinitely] to go on the adventure at all" is kind of a GTFO issue, but I think it would be more usefully discussed in a different context since it's not an "ability" as such.
"Having lots of hit points/AC" and "being a closet troll" aren't GTFO abilities, I have no idea where you got that idea.
GTFO abilities are abilities that, no matter how good you are at your schtick, hose you unless you can counter them.
So of those you listed, only the following are GTFO abilities:
- Flying/Swims/Burrowing (but only with an actual attack that can be used from safety, otherwise the battle is just a draw -or, if the opponent has to come to you to attack, you can ready actions etc. and at least theoretically beat it, even if it's an uphill battle.)
-Ghost/Special resilience: Can't be hit/hurt at all unless you have a ___
(but Swarms are also cases of this: Can't be hurt unless you have a area attack. Technically, so's Antimagic: "can't be hurt unless you have a mundane attack", but how often does that apply?)
-Medusa: fight-ending effect has to be overcome (petrification, being dead, and so on)
Regarding your environment category, "you must be able to [fly/breathe water/resist fire indefinitely] to go on the adventure at all" is kind of a GTFO issue, but I think it would be more usefully discussed in a different context since it's not an "ability" as such.
"Having lots of hit points/AC" and "being a closet troll" aren't GTFO abilities, I have no idea where you got that idea.
Youmu is rather a straightforward sort, so I think she'd work fairly well as a Samurai - Level 8 at a minimum to get access to Parry Danmaku or 12 for Cut Spellcard. After that, progression could go into Koumei's Carnage Princess or Storm Blade - or some smashup of appropriate things, but that is an Elothar at that point.Avoraciopoctules wrote:Someone needs to write an Elothar for this.
The only other new things needed would be a Half-Ghost race or a bloodline feat. The latter could start out with an Seen-Unseen Servant and resistance to [Death] effects, then "treated as Undead or Not-Undead, whichever is most beneficial", eventually granting an Incorporeal sortof-Cohort and finishing with some weird targeting defence or Ghost template powers for the cohort.
If you wanted Spellcard-like attacks, you could probably use something like Frank's new Crusader conversion to good effect.
Now Sakuya... or Keine... or Satori...
Youmu needs time dilation powers and fast travel (200 Yojana and her spellcard gimmicks) too.
Satori is a Totemist with Product of Infernal Dalliance getting her Detect Thoughts.
Sakuya gets easier if you don't model everything as Time Stop the spell; teleportation and Blink for defense, bursts and force cage/inverse blade barrier for her knife tricks and a 1 turn Time Stop that turns into the real thing with level advancement.
Keine is a Conduit or Sorcerer that has a lot of odd divination abilities and a one a month Mind Rape. Also, headbutts.
Satori is a Totemist with Product of Infernal Dalliance getting her Detect Thoughts.
Sakuya gets easier if you don't model everything as Time Stop the spell; teleportation and Blink for defense, bursts and force cage/inverse blade barrier for her knife tricks and a 1 turn Time Stop that turns into the real thing with level advancement.
Keine is a Conduit or Sorcerer that has a lot of odd divination abilities and a one a month Mind Rape. Also, headbutts.
FrankTrollman wrote: Halfling women, as I'm sure you are aware, combine all the "fun" parts of pedophilia without any of the disturbing, illegal, or immoral parts.
K wrote:That being said, the usefulness of airships for society is still transporting cargo because it's an option that doesn't require a powerful wizard to show up for work on time instead of blowing the day in his harem of extraplanar sex demons/angels.
Chamomile wrote: See, it's because K's belief in leaving generation of individual monsters to GMs makes him Chaotic, whereas Frank's belief in the easier usability of monsters pre-generated by game designers makes him Lawful, and clearly these philosophies are so irreconcilable as to be best represented as fundamentally opposed metaphysical forces.
Whipstitch wrote:You're on a mad quest, dude. I'd sooner bet on Zeus getting bored and letting Sisyphus put down the fucking rock.
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OgreBattle
- King
- Posts: 6820
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:33 am
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OgreBattle
- King
- Posts: 6820
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:33 am
http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=4406 that thread from nearly 10 years ago pretty much covers the topic, the idea is looking at cr10 monsters thrn deciding if a lvl10fighter should win/lose/draw against it.