The Gaming Den

Um, not fucking Lago, the part where he said "There is a large serious tournament scene" refutes the part about it being not good for tournaments.

See, there are three types of games, when it comes to tournament scenes.

1) Games without large tournament scenes that would be good for them, but aren't for some reason.

2) Games without large tournament scenes that would be bad for them.

3) Games with large tournament scenes that by definition must be good for large tournament scenes, because large tournament scenes keep happening.

Um, not fucking Lago, the part where he said "There is a large serious tournament scene" refutes the part about it being not good for tournaments.

See, there are three types of games, when it comes to tournament scenes.

1) Games without large tournament scenes that would be good for them, but aren't for some reason.

2) Games without large tournament scenes that would be bad for them.

3) Games with large tournament scenes that by definition must be good for large tournament scenes, because large tournament scenes keep happening.

Yeah, tournament scenes are a different beast from tabletop games. If the game is bad, people will stop showing up. Magic tournament attendance fell by half back when Affinity was utterly dominant, and that's with no substitute available. For video game tournaments, people can switch to a different game.

If you have a thriving tournament scene, then the game is doing something right. That's not an argument about popularity, it's an argument about functionality.

Kaelik wrote:Um, not fucking Lago, the part where he said "There is a large serious tournament scene" refutes the part about it being not good for tournaments.

I think we're accidentally equivocating past each other at this point on our definition of good for tournaments. As in some people are using a definition of 'is proven to buttress a tournament organization style anywhere from tens of thousands to millions of people'. Other people are using the definition of 'is technically competent in a way that is conducive to tournaments without needing some kind of black swan/hook'.

I claim that a game like Chess fits both definition. Bingo only fits the first. [Random fanboi cult classic game that no one plays] fits the second.

Lago PARANOIA wrote:

Kaelik wrote:Um, not fucking Lago, the part where he said "There is a large serious tournament scene" refutes the part about it being not good for tournaments.

I think we're accidentally equivocating past each other at this point on our definition of good for tournaments. As in some people are using a definition of 'is proven to buttress a tournament organization style anywhere from tens of thousands to millions of people'. Other people are using the definition of 'is technically competent in a way that is conducive to tournaments without needing some kind of black swan/hook'.

I claim that a game like Chess fits both definition. Bingo only fits the first. [Random fanboi cult classic game that no one plays] fits the second.

Okay, but see, we can tell why Bingo still exists and is played in large numbers even though it is a shit game. Do you have some explanation for why tons of people still go to and play at Marvel vs Capcom tournaments if they are not both highly competitive and fun to watch?

Kaelik wrote: Do you have some explanation for why tons of people still go to and play at Marvel vs Capcom tournaments if they are not both highly competitive and fun to watch?

And with this question my argument falls apart, because MvC -- despite my ragging on it -- is after all a legitimately pretty kick-awesome game.

And really, any explanation I gave that claimed 'MvC doesn't deserve to be popular' is going to ring hollow, because A.) it actually has quite a few redeeming values and B.) there are much, much worse games than MvC that are inexplicably popular.

Hey, Fox just won Evo!

I missed the UMVC3 finals.

Surgo wrote:Hey, Fox just won Evo!

Fucking Mango. Then again, he probably played Jigglypuff/Falco/Sheik/Fox throughout the tournament and just ended up winning the finals with Fox because it was against the Ice Climbers.

At least he didn't try going all Mario.