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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:26 pm
by Shrapnel
I've always wanted to know where the trope of "dickhole genie who maliciously fucks over people's wishes" came from in the first place.
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:29 pm
by virgil
Shrapnel wrote:I've always wanted to know where the trope of "dickhole genie who maliciously fucks over people's wishes" came from in the first place.
Midas? Nanabozho?
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:50 pm
by JigokuBosatsu
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:06 pm
by angelfromanotherpin
A lot of wish stories are lessons about the limits of legalism. That sort of thing goes back at least as far as the story of Eos and Tithonus (eternal life without eternal youth), and earlier variants are probably about as old as the concept of legalism itself.
Wish stories probably aren't strongly associated with genies until after Burton publishes the One Thousand and One Nights, and genies become the popular wish granters in western imagination, replacing the less-interesting talking fish and tree spirits of the Celtic tradition (where 3-wish stories are a lot more common).
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:17 pm
by name_here
The other major theme of wish stories is, basically, "You don't actually want that thing you can't have. It would suck." Hence the tradition of the three-wish set where the last one is undoing the other two.
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:42 pm
by Shrapnel
So, Monkey's Paw, and all that, then?
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:04 pm
by Prak
JigokuBosatsu wrote:SCP-738 wrote:Test 7: Sheldon Katz, Esq., senior counsel with the Foundation's legal department.
Result: At commencement of test, Mr. Katz presented the entity with a notarized, apostilled affidavit stating that he was participating in the test on his own behalf and not as agent for the Foundation. Approximately forty-one hours after the commencement of the test, Mr. Katz lapsed into unconsciousness due to exhaustion. Mr. Katz described the appearance of the entity as identical to his first-year contracts professor from law school, but he declined to describe the nature of the offer that had been made. He reported that just prior to his blacking out, he had been in the midst of negotiating a precise technical definition of the word "shall". Katz stated that the current working draft of the agreement that he and the entity had been drafting was at least nine hundred pages long at that moment, exclusive of exhibits and schedules, and that he regretted not keeping a copy for his form file. A red leather envelope, smelling of sulphur, was found on Mr. Katz's person, which contained a handwritten note reading "Please come back any time. I haven't had so much fun in years." Mr. Katz has requested reassignment.
If there were an airtight proof of the existence of a diabolic figure who was willing to grant wishes, I'd go to law school just so I could do this. I think I'd have just as much fun as him.
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:53 am
by shadzar
Shrapnel wrote:I've always wanted to know where the trope of "dickhole genie who maliciously fucks over people's wishes" came from in the first place.
when Mike Meral's designed 4th to give all those people exactly what they wanted and then they weren't enough to make cashflow so that the game remained alive longer than 2 years.
wait... let me reread the question.... yup basically the same thing. the idea that what you think you want most, when you get it, does not always make you happy.
"money can't buy happiness"
and those sorts of things.
also there is the test of morals concept.
this happens with more than genie, but even leprechauns too. basically any place you can obtain something freely. probably really has some religious connection to it a well.
there is also things like Pygmalion's Galatea, Deathly Hallows twistedness as told by their story. lots of places where the moral comes into play.
in most cases it is taking power from a god for mortal and having consequences for having done so. like the body mortal cannot survive from using it, etc.
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:49 am
by Thymos
Just ask for this wish and see what happens.
"I wish that this sentence is false."
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:04 am
by Prak
Thymos wrote:Just ask for this wish and see what happens.
"I wish that this sentence is false."
"The efreet thinks for a moment, tilts his head one way, then the other, then looks down at you, flips you off, makes a lewd gesture along the lines of "suck it, douche bag," and disappears."
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:06 am
by name_here
Alternately, reality forks into two versions, one in which you wish that the sentence is false and the other in which you do not.
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:08 am
by Vebyast
Ah, the fine art of abusing formal systems by constructing Gödel Sentences.
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:16 pm
by Desdan_Mervolam
Really, if you have a DM who is intent on fucking over your wishes no matter what, to the point where a wish of "I wish for a delicious sandwich" is answered with "You eat the most delicious sandwich you have ever tasted, your life is greater for it. Too bad you didn't taste the deadly magical poison on the sandwich that kills you three agonizing hours later", then you are better off not making the wish. File the item that grants the wish away on your sheet or politely thank the entity offering the wish and get stepping.
Come to think of it, if you have a GM who so enjoys pettily distorting wishes no matter how innocuous, you might want to evaluate your GM's behavior on other fronts as well. I mean, if that's the only thing where they relish being a dick it's a fairly harmless dick-being area, but if this indicates a larger trend of dickishness, you might consider stepping in real life.
Re: The inevitable 'get a wish from jerkface genies' thread.
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:26 pm
by Dogbert
Lago PARANOIA wrote:1.) Most importantly, is there any way to avoid the whole 'oh, in some ancient language in another dimensional timeline, your wish really means this' problem? If there isn't, then assume that there's some unbreakable law that makes this so.
Sadly, that one is nothing but mythologically accurate (at least, as long as the genie in question is an Ifrit and not a Marid). Unfortunately, DnD doesn't care for Muslim folklore so telling MC "I summon a Marid to get my wish so you can't try to shaft me" is meaningless.
Other than that, the only two things that comes to my mind are:
1) Sense Motive vs Bluff to represent your character's hold on legalese as, for all intents and purposes, you're striking a deal with the devil.
2) Redact your wish and run it by a RL lawyer.
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:23 pm
by ishy
3) My character is smart enough/takes enough time to make the wish in some perfect way that I'm not/willing to do.
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:42 am
by Avoraciopoctules
If the genie is not supernaturally perceptive and hyper-knowledgable, you can try a Brer Rabbit solution:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0y5dHmVRIc