After Sundown Expansion Material

TheNotoriousAMP · Post by **TheNotoriousAMP** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:25 pm

Grek wrote:
TheNotoriousAMP wrote:It would be interesting to see if the demons of the more bureaucratic chinese hell (YaoGuai) could be worked into this setting. Would be scary as fuck to be on the run from someone who wants to make you suffer for someone else's sins that accidentally got placed on your balance sheet.
This can basically be handled by the Compulsive Behavior disadvantage. A Demon that feels compelled to hurt only "sinners" and refuses to feed on or harm those that it deems "innocent" enough.

Could also help set up some entertaining games where they need to race through hell to track down the official who is in charge of their account, whilst dodging those hunting them. Sort of add a bit of the more serious version of Paranoia to it.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:38 pm

Prak_Anima wrote: If I'm writing a wishlist here, I'd also put down a "How to make a mad scientist" mini-essay/rant.

Would that be different from "Be an Icarid or a Witch, join the Storm Lords or the Rolnicy, give pseudo-scientific rants when using sorcery?" That kind of seems to cover it.

But on the subject of mad science: one of the paths that is being in consideration is:

Technomancy
Know Device
Panopticon
Wrath of the Gremlins
- Advanced
Craftsman Without Tools
Physical Message
State of the Art
Rise of the Machines

Obviously, if I ever get around to putting together a Raygun Gothic book, and/or if I end up putting in the Holograms, that's necessary. But is it necessary anyway? There's a lot of Maximum Overdrive and Lawnmower Man that you can do.

I think we can also branch out on the weaknesses, a bit, at least so that a "guy what is made of stone, or coated in steel" isn't taken down by a sharp stick.

That I disagree strongly with. Having a fixed and small number of weaknesses is very important. Monster hunters in source material don't run around with a dozen weapons in a golf bag, but if you expand the number of weaknesses creatures could have, player characters totally would do that.

Having the players be able to meaningfully predict what creatures are going to be vulnerable to is extremely important. And if the weaknesses "branch out" that simply isn't going to happen.

-Username17

Midnight_v · Post by **Midnight_v** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:58 pm

Races of Fu and tribes all along

Yeah that actually how I pretty much see it, to me adding all these supernaturals kinda flies in the face of what has gone before. However, you're in Europe somewhere and if your idea is "monsters round the globe" its your vision, and as such, you can add whatever you want. I'm just not in love with the idea.
Yes there's room for expansion but I was hoping to go deeping into the worlds that we already have, instead of "Monsters that weren't big enough a deal to make the first book"
I'm aware of Indonesian legend pretty well, but fuuuck... they could totally be folded into the Ugly vampire we already have. Its just a different probiscus

But Weresharks and Deep Ones are different. They were wildly divergent when Lovecraft first appropriated parts of the stories for his own, and they've been moving in different directions ever since

Yeah they are different.
... they're different... I'd like to phrase an argument why only one of them is needed. Moreover, why having more than 1 type of fishman with a similar history is "bad" in a story, but... I'm like the least convincing person ever, and if you have your mind made up that's probably that.

How bout this.
On the one hand you have Were-sharks.
and on the other you have this:

As it happens, Leviathans aren't many in number, and they need to crossbreed with normal humans or their blood stagnates and stillbirths become the norm. The colony at the Pacific Pole of Inaccessibility and the colony in the Antarctic waters both died out to a man, leaving nothing but empty creepy architecture beneath the waves. And while the Polynesian, New England, and Mediterranean colonies persisted, they did so only by regularly sending their people above the waves to have families in human settlements. And those children were born without gills, gaining them only later in life. Which meant that they were again vulnerable to predation on the surface

"Polynesian Colony still persists" so like every sharkman legend from Melanesia to Hawaii would be perfectly in line with the deep ones.

And also this:
Basic Powers

Beast Form The character can transform into an animal by spending a power point and taking a Complex Action. The type of animal transformed into is chosen when the ability is learned. When Beast Form is gained as a fixed ability from a character's supernatural type, the form of the beast is often predefined (for example, a Nezumi becomes a rat). This ability can be learned multiple times, and each time the character can choose one more new form than the time before (two new forms with the second learning, for a total of 3). No beast form can
be much larger than a human, or smaller than a mouse. Some animals are stronger or more agile than a human, but the total bonus to these attributes never exceeds +2. Many animals are much weaker than a human. For example: a Rat Form always has a strength reduced to 1 regardless of the original character's Strength score, and gains a +2 bonus to Agility. This ability is a Protean power. For purposes of being countered, Beast Form has 3 hits.

So seriously, every legend of guys turning into Random animals outside of Wolves(Coyote, Hyenas, Bear), Tigers (Jaguars, and Panthers) and Rats (Master Spliter) would better be explained by Witches.

Sharks Shaman in the pacific lands? A witch that has Beast form and War. Form? Yes please. By doing it this way it creates a smaller and less silly game world. When it comes to fishmen there probably isn't much in the way of positive growth anyway.

The thing is I'm a total nerd living in Hawaii twice in my life led me to know what the hell Nanaue is, but it does NOT have as much traction even remotely as leviathan. They're not different enough as to keep it from being silly.
Of course there's room for expansion, but in a world of literally thousands of myths around the world, isn't it better to have a few supernaturals that are responsible for all the various eye witness accounts. That detailing everything that catches our eye?

*sigh* thats all I got. I'm not the most persuasive guy so I guess I'll drop the passionate argument of keeping the monsters already in the book and expanding what is already had. Clearly that's right out anyway at this point.

Another thing I'd like to keep out is Sidhe' Fey.

As long as its a horror story we should keep them out. Completely out, and really in the first book the inhabitants of "Maya" are already spelled out as being "JALUS"
So those fucks are right out.
Therefore, I posit that every encounter with the stereotypical elf is either A JALUS, a Fallen Trying to recruit for the King with 3 shadows or another supernatural using Desire Reflection.
The "TRUE" fey in a horror campaign are Spriggans and the Isz, and likely some Asura here and there.

Sidhe Fey: Asura, Desire Reflection spam, and Jalus

I guess honestly its a lot easier to convince people of cool things to put in as opposed to why mediocre things need to be kept out.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:59 pm

Sagbata aren't quite doing it for me, but I'll withhold judgement until I've seen more than a blurb. I'm a bit excited about Penanggalan because I've toyed with the idea of writing my own body horror power set themed around detachable/redundant parts before but could never quite come up with a full suite that felt satisfying without stepping on Fortitude powers or Touch of Darkness.

Now, as for Midnight_V's take on Endala, I can explain why I think Nosferatu are rather inadequate as a starting point for many spider themed characters in two words: black widows. Nosferatu can do the pitiable freak or the hungry predator that is more beast than man shtick fine, but they express that through being all-weird, all the time. That's OK if you're rolling tarantula style, but it's still something of a missed opportunity when you consider widow spiders are sufficiently notorious that the term has become shorthand for dangerous women and death by snu-snu. Hell, even "nice" spider folklore figures like Anansi are renowned for their ability to hoodwink people. If I were to build a spider themed vampire by core book only rules, I'd actually start with a Strigoi base in many instances. Even then, it would still kinda sting that powers are sunk into things like Gift of Health and Vigor instead of Clinging and a Warform or Magnetism powers.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:06 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:
Prak_Anima wrote: If I'm writing a wishlist here, I'd also put down a "How to make a mad scientist" mini-essay/rant.
Would that be different from "Be an Icarid or a Witch, join the Storm Lords or the Rolnicy, give pseudo-scientific rants when using sorcery?" That kind of seems to cover it.

Maybe some kind of "here's how you do stuff not explicitly covered by a splat" section at the back as an appendix or something? It'd be vastly more useful than WW's "Here's why you're wrong" essays...
Hell, it'd be good in a player's guide or something if you had more PG type stuff.

But on the subject of mad science: one of the paths that is being in consideration is:

Technomancy
Know Device
Panopticon
Wrath of the Gremlins
- Advanced
Craftsman Without Tools
Physical Message
State of the Art
Rise of the Machines

Obviously, if I ever get around to putting together a Raygun Gothic book, and/or if I end up putting in the Holograms, that's necessary. But is it necessary anyway? There's a lot of Maximum Overdrive and Lawnmower Man that you can do.

That would be amazing, and I think would be great to include whether you do Raygun Gothic/Holograms or not.

I think we can also branch out on the weaknesses, a bit, at least so that a "guy what is made of stone, or coated in steel" isn't taken down by a sharp stick.
That I disagree strongly with. Having a fixed and small number of weaknesses is very important. Monster hunters in source material don't run around with a dozen weapons in a golf bag, but if you expand the number of weaknesses creatures could have, player characters totally would do that.

Having the players be able to meaningfully predict what creatures are going to be vulnerable to is extremely important. And if the weaknesses "branch out" that simply isn't going to happen.

-Username17

I'm not saying we should branch out to each type having it's own special snowflake weakness, but maybe each group has a distinct weakness so we don't have weird cases because "three is the number thou shalt count and each ties to two player types, no more, no less."

edit: or hell, maybe there's just a merit so you can pick something different than you'd normally have for your type, with the understanding this is a "PC and major NPCs you can easily learn about only" thing.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:00 pm

Whipstitch wrote:Sagbata aren't quite doing it for me, but I'll withhold judgement until I've seen more than a blurb.

If it helps at all, here's the Sagbata fixed powers box text:

Sagbata Starting Powers
- Core Discipline: Path of Blood -
Boil Blood (Basic Path of Blood)
Gift of Health (Basic Path of Blood)
- Basic Powers -
Withering (Basic Lure of Destruction)
Hide From Notice (Basic Veil)
Howling Winds (Basic Chasing the Storm)
Restore Flesh (Basic Fortitude)
-Advanced Powers -
Theft of Life (Advanced Path of Blood)
Restore Life (Advanced Fortitude)

Distinctive Flaw: Feared by Children

Obviously, that implies some powers have been rejiggered. Basically, all over the world, a "vampire" myth is classically an attempt to make sense of disease by societies who didn't have access to microscopes or knowledge of what germs were. So your old school European vampire who is a degenerate monster who performs bizarre ritualistic behavior and delivers deadly bites is an attempt to understand the reality of rabies, while the more genteel 19th century vampire stories or basically more of an attempt to wrestle with syphilis. African vampires... tend to be a bit more wholesale. They do things like send a foul wind that steals the strength of men and leaves babies dead or cause whole villages to explode into blood so it can lick it up. In short, they are mythic descriptions of the reality of things like malaria, sleeping sickness, and hemorrhagic fever.

They don't have Abyss of the Body because they aren't plague spreaders, in the mythic context they literally are personally the pestilence as all the other vampires are. So they steal your strength, boil your blood, and make you bleed from your eyes personally (albeit, at a distance). Obviously, these are are hybrids of similar monsters from all over West and Central Africa. The actual word "Sagbata" is from Benin and is more like an evil Loa than a flesh and blood vampire. I wanted to pick African monster names that sounded African but didn't sound like names white people make up to make fun of how African names sound (like Impundulu).

Prak wrote:I'm not saying we should branch out to each type having it's own special snowflake weakness, but maybe each group has a distinct weakness so we don't have weird cases because "three is the number thou shalt count and each ties to two player types, no more, no less."

There are no weird cases. Vulnerabilities are magical and essentially arbitrary. It only gets weird if it changes. Vampires being burned by silver in Blade is not weird. Vampires being burned by wood in Shadowrun is not weird. But if vampires were burned by different shit every time they showed up, that would be weird. As long as it's consistent, it isn't weird. You're literally asking to make things weird in a place where they are not. No.

-Username17

Midnight_v · Post by **Midnight_v** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:01 pm

Sagbata aren't quite doing it for me

Thank god its not just me, at least.
I'm moving away from the long post model as of right now, so to be brief.

If I were to build a spider themed vampire by core book only rules, I'd actually start with a Strigoi base in many instances.

Maybe, but Every vampire has Gift of Health, and vigor.
I'd always thought it was about them being able to "embrace" luminaries and extras at all + regeneration.
I could be wrong but they do all have those powers.

Warform is a hard thing for some supernaturals to get into and DEVOTIONS in general can be hard to get into.

However, why the hell does the Black widow need to have warform?
Mesmerism. Bite. Poison. devour? Or is it just: These bitches turn into giant spiders? I'm not even sure where the Spider Vampire legend comes from. I'm accustomed to Anasasi and Were-spiders, spider demons.... Infact.
The spider bitches that eat people are mechanically and mythologically: ASURA. Because what you're describing is a physical succubus not a "vampire" in the traditional sense.
Here's their power list:

Asura Starting Powers

- Core Discipline: Magnetism -
Attract (Basic Magnetism)
Repel (Basic Magnetism)

- Basic Powers -
Supernatural Senses (Basic Discernment)
Patience of the Mountains (Basic Fortitude)
Clinging (Basic Clout)

- Advanced Powers -
Flight (Clout / Magnetism Devotion)
Dismissal (Advanced Magnetism)
Summons (Advanced Magnetism)
This seems a much more likely platform for the black widow, you seem to want. There's even a plot hook for it in the main book.

Sample Adventure: Somewhere in the city an Asura has come through from the Dark Reflection and is repeatedly draining energy out of mortals in order to bring Mirror Goblins across like some grim parody of a work visa program. The Oracle is sent to assemble their band, track down the Asura and kick Limbo ass before the army of Mirror Goblins gets too large to defend the city against while maintaining secrecy.

Spider demons are a thing, in japan, in africa, but exclusively draining blood instead of devouring whole? Whats the source material of that, where its not just an Asura tale?

Edit: Frank Ninja'd me with that Sagbata box.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:15 pm

There's many spider species that do not devour their prey whole but rather injects them with digestive enzymes and suck the goop out. It's not blood drinking, exactly, but it's feasting on fluids and can be trivially adapted into a feeding schedule.

Also, I don't consider it an article of faith that all spider vampires must be able to turn into a literal spider. I just think it'd be nice if people can fairly easily build in that direction, since Nimble Feet and Clinging are both attractive powers for skittering insect people anyway. It's not that it's a perfect fit, but rather that it's a much better fit than say, being able to talk to rats or being able to hulk out while looking human (Vigor).

I too just noticed Frank's Sagbata post, and I do think that description helps sell me on it a fair bit. I think I just had my post-Dracula blinders on again--it's pretty easy to get stuck in the "Vampires are a metaphor for destructive lusts" mode of thinking.

Midnight_v · Post by **Midnight_v** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:00 am

I'm aware there are "fluid drinking" spiders, but I meant "mythologically" what is the source material.
Cause I was thinking... Why spider "vampires" at all?.
I mean why not Were-spiders, or spider demons like in myths. I mean the whole "Cause there are vampire bats" (spiders in this case) is a decent argument. All in all though it a thing that most of these ideas just sound like something vampires "DO" not a new type of supernatural.

Warform is always nice to have I'd wager, but its not an issue of spider people but of Devotions in general.
Its a popular thing to have, and in the other thread they were talking about doing away with prereqs for devotions all together. I'm sure. sure the good majority people will put it on their sheet, just so they can "kick some ass" when needed or whatever.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:24 am

I gotta say, I'm having a really hard time caring about those last objections. The notion that your ass becomes slightly chafed when people staple a War Form onto the Wicked Witch of the West without a really good explanation just isn't a very compelling reason to be annoyed about spider people turning into literal spiders. There's all sorts of cartoons 'n' shit where the villain of the week invites someone into their parlor followed by a big reveal once their victim gets complacent. It's not the only way a spider monster could work, but it's a rather obvious one that doesn't feel like a reach to me.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:36 am

FrankTrollman wrote:There are no weird cases. Vulnerabilities are magical and essentially arbitrary. It only gets weird if it changes. Vampires being burned by silver in Blade is not weird. Vampires being burned by wood in Shadowrun is not weird. But if vampires were burned by different shit every time they showed up, that would be weird. As long as it's consistent, it isn't weird. You're literally asking to make things weird in a place where they are not. No.

Only in the "maybe make it a merit that only shows up on the PCs and maybe the BBEG" idea. What I'm literally asking you to do is make it so that androids aren't taken down by pointy sticks because, for all that in AS androids are defined by "built to be a lover," most peoples concept of Androids is more this

than this

sorry, classical era painting boobage

What I'm suggesting is six weakness materials so you can have something like


Animates	Blessed Items
Leviathans	Borax
Lycanthropes	Silver
Transhumans	Gold
Witches	Iron
Vampires	Wood

Yes it's literally twice as many bane materials, but it's also literally only three more bane materials. I'm not asking for a roulette wheel filled with the periodic table that you spin every time a monster shows up, I'm asking that Frankenstein/Terminator/Robot!Maria not be taken out like this

I don't care how magic it is, it's dumb. At least if you say "you have to dance the hokey pokey around something, and then it can knock out Power Girl" doesn't run into material hardness logic because it's not just a stick, it's a special stick.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:54 am

I feel like this borax thing is just another reason why people shouldn't really be concerned about putting in enough science to make Prak happy.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:03 am

I must admit it's hard to think of six things, especially when fire can't really be one of the six. I was on the spot and just put Borax as a further reference to Supernatural. My point is that Frankenstein being knocked out cold because he walked into a tree branch is fucking weird, and maybe animates should be vulnerable to something other than wood.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:25 am

I think you're overstating the degree to which getting hit by a bane weapon changes things. It's really only a big deal if your character is relying largely upon their Fortitude powers to bolster their soak pool, at which point I would argue that your character doesn't quite merit a comparison to characters as tough as Power Girl or the Terminator to begin with. For example, even a wimpy PC android with no character creation points invested in Strength can fire up Vigor and bootstrap themselves up to a soak of 10 vs. a baseball bat flogging before factoring any armor present. If someone's one-shotting you in such circumstances it's happening in large part because you're dealing with a bad ass or were out of juice when the fight started, not because you took a prat fall.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:47 am

Ok, then maybe it's just down to my really only cursorily looking through. I retract the bane material thing.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:07 am

midnight wrote:I'm aware there are "fluid drinking" spiders, but I meant "mythologically" what is the source material.
Cause I was thinking... Why spider "vampires" at all?.
I mean why not Were-spiders, or spider demons like in myths.

Well, in myths there really isn't a difference between Were-spiders, spider demons, spider vampires, and spider sorcerers. All those terms are pretty much interchangeable. When we get to the post-Dungeons & Dragons era, there comes a desire to actually distinguish things into groups - not the least so that people can interact with things on the level of fanfiction (or an RPG) by having classes of things with consistent rules of storytelling.

She's called "蜘蛛精" which is usually translated as "Spider Demon." But what she does is to seduce people with her sexy human form and then bind them up in webs and suck their blood out with her fangs. You could certainly write that up as a Lycanthrope or soemthing, but oWoD showed that when you do that it's stupid. Once you have different types of vampire, having things that swim like vampires and quack like vampries but totally aren't "vampires" is just as insulting as when D&D pulls out all those monsters that look exactly like undead but can't be turned because they are technically plants or some shit.

Europe to Japan, Eurasian spider people monsters are almost all female.

There are of course various monsters that have spider parts, usually women who sprout extra arms, man catching webbing, and fangs. I'm not entirely sure why it's almost always women, but it is. May have something to do with how in many spider species the female is much bigger than the male, or possibly the whole black widow thing. In any case, having spider powers is really quite different from having swarm powers, so while both might get small witness, there isn't much overlap between a Mi Go and Arachne.

Anyway, the actual Vampire Spider is a real thing and it lives in East Africa. Also, African spider monsters are about the only place I've found where spider people come in both sexes. So when it comes to placing spider vampires in the world, East Africa is a pretty reasonable place. Of course, real vampire spiders are actually jumping spiders who get the human blood they love to drink by catching mosquitoes and ripping them in half, but you can't have everything. The signature spider powers that people want are making webs, growing extra limbs, climbing on walls, and spying through spiders. And that's actually deliverable.

-Username17

RadiantPhoenix · Post by **RadiantPhoenix** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:09 am

Also maybe a venomous bite.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:46 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:Of course, real vampire spiders are actually jumping spiders who get the human blood they love to drink by catching mosquitoes and ripping them in half, but you can't have everything.

They're called that because they die if you squish them up with a wooden stake.

RadiantPhoenix · Post by **RadiantPhoenix** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:04 pm

Koumei wrote:They're called that because they die if you squish them up with a wooden stake.

Cows will die if you stab them through the heart with a wooden stake. Does that make them vampires?

Omegonthesane · Post by **Omegonthesane** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:53 pm

RadiantPhoenix wrote:
Koumei wrote:They're called that because they die if you squish them up with a wooden stake.
Cows will die if you stab them through the heart with a wooden stake. Does that make them vampires?

Cows don't have a diet entirely or primarily of blood, so no.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:12 pm

Also, if you leave water running in the bathtub, a spider can't cross that, they just get washed down the drain and probably die. So there we have more evidence.

Not sure how they handle garlic, and they don't tend to like sunlight that much. Which has nothing to do with "being a visible target for birds".

Midnight_v · Post by **Midnight_v** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:37 pm

Whipstitch wrote:I gotta say, I'm having a really hard time caring about those last objections. The notion that your ass becomes slightly chafed when people staple a War Form onto the Wicked Witch of the West without a really good explanation just isn't a very compelling reason to be annoyed about spider people turning into literal spiders. There's all sorts of cartoons 'n' shit where the villain of the week invites someone into their parlor followed by a big reveal once their victim gets complacent. It's not the only way a spider monster could work, but it's a rather obvious one that doesn't feel like a reach to me.

Hmm... you're being either a stupid fuck here or belligerent just cause its the internet.
Let me know what the malfunction is so we can reach understanding.

Either way you seem to be responding to something I never said.

What I'm saying is that Warform is popular, and devotions in general need to be made easier to get into. That way people can just plop it on their sheet, so if they want to be a "melee type" it isn't even a thing.

So... this whole "Wicked Witch" bullshit you're projecting is just being a dick to someone for "generally speaking" acknowledging your point.
Warform is too hard to get into.
I've kinda scaled back some of the general den dickishness for the sake of rational conversation here, but I'm not sure what you're talking about anymore.

The rest of my question was answered by Frank, which is "What myths are being drawn on, and why vampires, instead of a possibly more applicable supernatural type i.e. demons.

Btw, Thanks frank I'm well aware of Vampire spiders. In my post that what I was referencing when I said "cause there are Vampire bats (spiders in this case)" so I mean. Sooo... sure Spider vampires, but I'd really rather get them in under types of Asura, if you're really going to make asura playable types, cause well: Succubus. Enough about that though.

Just to weigh in on the Whole Immunities thing. I didn't like transhumans, and leviathan getting killed with "BULLETS" that was a real thing that actually did "chaff my ass" as Whipstitch put it.
Then I realized that I was being a fucking moron. You actually CAN'T go to walmart by bullets and go "Fallen Hunting" see bullets are made worldwide of lead, tin, antimony, and depleted uranium but not steel, or iron.
You can still fight them with katana and greatswords though and that make it all worthwhile. They generally have the same weaknesses as lycanthropes in that case.
[/i]

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:47 pm

What would a Fox Spirit or Tanuki be in After Sundown?

Also what would be the power source for kungfu, like in the movies where they go punch vampires to death. Or like in the boxer uprising where they got possesed by spirits to make them bullet proof.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:52 pm

Koumei wrote: Not sure how they handle garlic, and they don't tend to like sunlight that much. Which has nothing to do with "being a visible target for birds".

On garlic, crushed garlic is a remedy for insect bites, and some folks (google) says that eating garlic makes them less likely to be bitten by ticks and mosquitos(smells bad? maybe it stops spiders too).

Though I'm pretty sure if I google "Garlic+anything", garlic will be found to be a cure for it.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:01 pm

OgreBattle wrote:Or like in the boxer uprising where they got possesed by spirits to make them bullet proof.

wat.

I assume this is a movie reference?