So, I'm reading D&D Basic Rules, Version 0.1

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Post by tussock »

Chapter 6: Customising your Character
"See the Player's Handbook." But it's 3e-style multiclassing with AD&D style dual-class stat requirements. Maybe Plate and Shield not worth it for Wizards anyway, probably less cost to just grab 20 Dex and concentrate a half-decent buff.


Part 2: Playing the Game
Chapter 7:Using Ability Scores

Well, actually it's the meat of their game rules, not much to do with ability scores other than grabbing the mod, which you already needed for Chapter 2 and 3 and 5 anyway. To quoth once more: "Fucking game manuals! How do they work?"

Advantage/Disadvantage. AKA the only thing they actually designed in the last three years. Handy that the thing where you never use rerolls because they're all advantage actually means you only reroll one of your advantage dice. That's awful.
Mechanically of course, it's a bit of a train wreck. The numbers you're looking at for a "Medium" task, which the DM pulls out of their perfectly peachy ass if you bought cake, is a 15. It might be 5 if it's a nice cake, or 30 if the DM's girlfriend didn't like it, but it's something like 15.

Your mods are +3 to +5 for stat (+5 by 8th level anyway), and +2 to +6 for proficiency if you've got your tools or don't need them or have more cake. So you need a 4+ at high level and a 10+ at 1st level. Let's say you always need a 10+ because the DM will fuck with you at high level if you bother getting good, by making you use a shit stat or something even if everyone else gets it easy.

Advantage turns that 55% to ~80%. Disadvantage turns it to ~30%. Note that's +/-5 in the old terms, and +10 for the two steps. Never anything else, there's no +2 for synergy or aiding, and there's no +10 for having exactly the right tool. It's just +5. Or -5. And they're everywhere. And they just about all depend on the DM agreeing with you, or liking your improv, or ... well, spellcasters and rogues get them just for breathing, as does anyone with a helper.

But the whole game is getting advantage, and dishing out disadvantage. It's bigger than the change in your total stat and class mod between level 1 and level 20. And you get that at 1st level with cake and blowjobs.
Let's just say it's important to get advantage all the time and give your enemies disadvantage all the time. In fact, it's the whole game. That's it. Action economy? Who gives a fuck. Also the DM can DC 30 you at any point and you just fail.

Anyway. With group stealth, you're all stealthy if half of you are. With group climbing you can all climb as long as half of you can. No worries for the Centaur after all. Clip-clop past the guards and up the wall, because someone else made their checks. That's great, everyone have some cake. All trying to swim? Iron Golems can if they're on the same team as a dolphin! Actually, they probably can anyway, it's all pretty loose.


So there's "skills" where you get your proficiency bonus, and "other ability checks" where you don't and may as well not bother trying. Unless you bought cake. The skills themselves are few and only overlap a moderate amount, and it looks fairly predictable for what you could ask to use and get away with. Realistically groups are going to quickly learn which characters do which jobs and never vary from that, and if you're missing a skill you can probably just use a different one without any trouble at all. Unless it's listed as an ability check and then fuck you.


For saves I obviously want Con and Wis, because they didn't really bother with the whole six-save thing even though it is in the game. Uh, one less reason to play a Rogue. Though again, advantage is the thing to seek. They hint the DM will instead just give modifiers rather than advantage, which seems to defeat the purpose, but whatever. I guess that's more of the Oberoni save.

Edit: Oh gods, I almost missed the downtime rules. You can heal in an hour using class-based healing dice (1 per level), and free heal to max and regain half your healing dice each night. So adventure every 2nd day. Unless poisoned, that's a random chance to recover for each 3 days rest.

If you have a year to spare (someone must be very poisoned), you can craft one suit of plate armour (lol, no), or learn a new tool proficiency. Oh, yeh, tools. They look to be mostly just used to allow various activities that aren't technically skills, or sometimes are skills, it's kinda random.

With a year of gaming, your character could learn the d20 and play 5e with his proficiency bonus. Handy.
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Post by tussock »

Chapter 9: Combat
Ah, the ... you know, the game's supposed to have three sections, exploration, social, and combat, but the actual rules are only covering exploration and combat. Ah, who needs rules for social, you just social it. Cake!


Anyway, much less DM interference here. The rules are far more solid and much less about asking permission for anything, so I suppose you can at least prepare your characters for combat. The DM's power here is not in re-writing the rules, but massively fudging the monsters in number appearing, morale, tactics, backup, and so on.

Perception, it lets you act in round one. That's important, a lot of fights are going to be over by round 2. Though you only need to see one of the enemy, so it's not that hard if there's more than one or two of them. Wisdom though, it's not useless.

It's still individually rolled initiative, though the DM resolves ties arbitrarily, for the luls. Prefer team initiative myself, but I guess this keeps everyone busy for a while in deciding who gets to be first to wait for the Wizard to win.

You Act on your turn, which may be before, after, or during any Movement taken. There's Actions that just give advantage and disadvantage, so if you want it, take it. Single monsters are just totally screwed against a party that uses them.

There's no first strike for reach, you can freely circle people or wander around within their reach, so it's fairly fluid as long as you're not leaving melee range.


The rules for grappling tell me to look in the appendix to resolve some of it. That's not helpful. The language is annoying too.
To do so it must succeed on a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check.
That shit gets old. Font still not helping, but even still. They couldn't just say Athletics or Acrobatics? Explain it once at the start of the piece and then abbreviate?

Other than that, you roll to hit and roll for damage and then realise the Wizard already ended the fight so ... you wonder where the rules for killing sleeping people are? Hmm. Only advantage on attacks and automatic crits, so ... huh. Maybe I'll revise that bit about Wizards ending fights. Turns out being disabled still means you need a nice damage source to avoid it standing up again rather soon. And Wizards suck for damage. Better than a Fighter, but not for long.

Hmm. Anyone number crunched all the crit benefits? Can't find many myself, so far I can see a Rogue is the go-to killer by far for disabled targets, so long as he packs a melee weapon. Kinda soft defensively, so I'm seeing more good cause for a Rogue and Cleric with your Wizards.


Remember when mounted to get the hell off your mount. Infact, never get on it. It can only kill "other creatures" if you're not sitting on it. So don't. Just, don't. Mounts are not for riding.
Creatures and objects that are fully immersed in water have resistance to fire damage.
Resistance? Meh, wearing a metal shell still makes you vulnerable to electricity, so ... physics has never been the game's strong point. 33,000 cu.ft. and all.

Don't know where the hell the mother-may-I exploration and skill game went, these rules feel genuinely crunchy and interdependent, just like D&D. Only I can't seem to form a front line worth a damn to actually stop the monsters just monstering the Wizards, whose AC is a bit of a concern without ... Mage Armour, 13+Dex, 8 hours, level 1? Shield, 1 round, fuck off. Meh, spell chapter, save it.
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Post by tussock »

Part 3: The Rules of Winning D&D
Chapter 10: Spellcasting

A spell is something that happens once and then is gone (you're plucking the strings of magic and shit, so pass the toke). Except you can do it again with another slot, or forever with a cantrip, or anything that sticks around. So a spell is just how Wizards (and to a lesser extent Clerics) win D&D.
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift.
Slow clap. Love the notes for the slow kids up the back. Maybe if there was some more of them I wouldn't get lost so often? Heh.

So the game has the old v3.7 Move, Standard, Swift, and Immediate actions. They work the same way. The new terminology is mostly "Move, Action, Bonus Action, and Reaction". If you use a bonus action spell, you can only cast a cantrip with it, not another full spell. There's special casing like that everywhere, some of it's not quite stuck with the action paradigm.

Which probably came from their attempt to use natural language. Which I like, when it's done well, which it's not really here. Ah well.

Components, the Harry-Potter-style wand replaces your old-school material components (thanks Voss, saw it eventually). Otherwise D&D, free hand and no silence spell (which is nerfed beyond oblivion, so no problem).

Why isn't a cube's point of origin inside the cube? Like, in the middle. They don't even have a grid by default to care about that shit, it just seems weird to specify it that carefully and then put it on the outside of a face on the cube (or inside if you like!, WTF?).

Saves are ... 8 + stat + PB (Proficiency Bonus, abbreviated forever more) so 13-19. Vs save mods of ... +2 if you're lucky outside your good saves. That's you failing 50% to 80% of the time. So yeh, fuck you for not casting the first spell. Definitely invest in Dex (and some Wis to avoid arbitrary surprise).

Dex Clerics, Wood Elves natch, are looking like a pretty good option. Be interesting to cheese up the God choices in the PHB and see if they might just make #1 again. Probably Woodie Druids will kick ass though, depending on spell nerfs and companion status.


Where was I? That's kinda it. Concentration fails on damage taken by Con checks, Higher DC of 10 or half damage. That's going to fail a hell of a lot, though Clerics handle it better with the PB (and are generally a touch more sturdy). Was there a rule for interrupting casting? That would matter, almost make Fighters relevant. Can't see one though. Certainly no reaction to casting a spell unless you prepare it, and the check doesn't seem to matter for casting.
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Post by tussock »

Chapter 11: Spells

On formatting, there's some bad decisions here. I thought they were just being casually untidy in the playtest but this is the final thing, so ....
AID
2nd level abjuration
Casting Time: 1 action.
Range: 30 feet.
Components: V, S, M (a tiny piece of white cloth)
Duration: 8 hours.

Fluff text. Target/Area information. Spell effect.
At higher levels:Spell effect by slot.
So it doesn't tell me whose lists it's on. Like, I can't actually browse through the spells and know if this one is mine. I mean, I know, because fucking 25+ years of D&D, bitches, but even still I blanked on a couple of them when it fits on the end of the 2nd line just fine.

I suppose it makes later classplosion look a bit tidier, but not really. How is anyone going to find shit with Wizard, Sorcerer, Bard, Warlock, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, and Ranger if not others in the mix. Are we still getting Assassins? No, I suppose not. Illusionists? No. Never mind, Mearls never could count. Whatever.


The spell effect, and the spell effect by level, they're the same thing. Always have been. Doesn't need the extra indent and bold. This one in particular adds 5 THP plus 5 THP per level above 2nd. A flag somewhere to note that it scales, but not that.

Mechanically scaling by spell level is, it's, .... The thing is, it doesn't stop Wizards winning because Meteor Swarm and Gate and all the lower level shit are all there, there's always something. There's nothing wrong with the spell power in particular (though, you know, the Wizards could be a little easier to knock around, or even possible to do that would be good). It just means they have a couple spells that work and then we all go home.

Low level spells are rubbish even when they do scale, is the thing. This just doesn't help Fighters, especially when the low level slots don't even make good group buffs. It doesn't help Rogues. There's no comparative advantage to the other classes, it costs them in some ways. There's so much old school they could have taken to fix the problem they've tried to fix, but instead they just make casters want to win now and then go home right afterward, even harder.

Some of it's not inherently bad, things becoming their own mass-spell versions. That's a more reasonable trade. Effectively one high level slot instead of many low level, though you've actually got spare low level slots and not enough high level ones generally, so it still doesn't really work out as useful, just, not inherently bad.



I do like the parenthetical material component. That's where that joke belongs, good stuff. Because it's a tiny bandage, and we all love sympathetic magic.

Individual spells you ask? No. I've already got about 6 editions of D&D spells up there somewhere, and I don't really need a 7th. I'd have to house rule the crap out of this thing just to get it off the ground, and it doesn't appear to be worth the trouble. A font that wasn't killing me would be nice.

So how far off is Pathfinder 2? Because it'd be a shame to buy all those bestiaries and then have them fix the numbers for me. I really didn't expect to give up on 5e quite this hard.

The v0.1 had almost got me hoping, but I still have the Alpha v1 from Pathfinder, when they were a few weeks in, and it's better than all of this. Art, layout, THE FONT, design, development, designer attitude, descriptions, stories, black people existing, OGL, a company that actually cared if D&D lived or died, someone at the head of it that actually likes the game .... I know it's just some dude's crappy house rules for 3.5 with professional art, but as of today that looks absolutely fucking fantastic.
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Post by Username17 »

They've been ranting about the exploration pillar since at least 2011, so while I am not surprised that what they ended up with was basically straight MTP, it's still kind of impressive in a way. Seriously what were they even doing if they didn't come up with a chart for what kinds of things that characters of different levels could climb?

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Post by JigokuBosatsu »

then pulls out a set of tools and picks the lock in the blink of an eye.
Can you put in a key and turn it in the "blink of an eye"? Because you can't pick a lock any faster. Fuck me right in the goat ass.
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Post by Krusk »

Voss wrote: *The only magic 'arrows' so far is the arrow of dragon slaying, which comes in singles. It is +3 vs dragons and does +6d10 extra if they fail a save. You are probably being overly optimistic about the potential of magical arrows.
... probably. Thats a shame.

Tussock - The language in this book is the most round-a-bout way Ive ever seen anyone write anything. I had to reread tons of sections am still not sure how its supposed to read.

I found why they have that stupid font. I can't seem to copy and paste from the book.
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Post by Voss »

tussock wrote:Chapter 9: Combat
Ah, the ... you know, the game's supposed to have three sections, exploration, social, and combat, but the actual rules are only covering exploration and combat. Ah, who needs rules for social, you just social it. Cake!
Now, now. Social interaction covers almost a full page split between p. 66-67. And aside from gibbering about RP, there are two full paragraphs on using ability checks. Wherein using your best skill bonuses is referred to as 'deck stacking' in a 'wink, wink' reference to skill challenges (in a 'aren't you glad we didn't do that this time.' sort of fashion) Clearly, the 10 minutes they spent writing this up was sufficient.


Exploration, on the other, hand may appear in the DMG. Its certainly where it tells you to find the actual rules for navigation, foraging and tracking.


Armour works if you have 14 Dex or 15 Str, otherwise you're a bit slowed or just getting hit a lot. With 20 Dex it gets better. Plate & Shield is AC 20 and most stuff will never hit you as soon as you can steal a set, though you probably shouldn't steal from anyone wearing it unless you have a Wizard handy because you won't hit them either. Wizards cast in plate, if they have proficiency, which seems easy to get reading between the lines here and there.
Problem here for light and no armor is 20 Dex is 'survive to level 8' first. So enjoy 7 levels of playing mother may I please not get hit. I'm not sure if heavy armor is that easy to get, but casting in armor with proficiency is there because not all clerics get heavy armor (life domain does, but others won't), and you can straight up take mountain dwarf and get light/medium proficiency. And while a mountain dwarf wizard starts behind on int and doesn't max out until level 12 instead of 8, a strength rogue with hand axes instead of shortswords is perfectly fine if you want to do 2 weapon melee. Light crossbow rogue is still better, because being on the line still kind of sucks at 16 AC.


As for the spell lists, there are caster lists on 82-83, but I agree that isn't a reason not to include them with the spell description.
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Post by Cyberzombie »

FrankTrollman wrote:They've been ranting about the exploration pillar since at least 2011, so while I am not surprised that what they ended up with was basically straight MTP, it's still kind of impressive in a way. Seriously what were they even doing if they didn't come up with a chart for what kinds of things that characters of different levels could climb?
They don't really have to, because proficiency bonuses go from +2 to +6 over 20 levels, they're not going to make a huge difference as to what you can do with a skill check, unless you're a rogue, who gets double. More or less that translates to getting a +5% chance of doing 1st level tasks every 5 levels.
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Post by Voss »

Cyberzombie wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:They've been ranting about the exploration pillar since at least 2011, so while I am not surprised that what they ended up with was basically straight MTP, it's still kind of impressive in a way. Seriously what were they even doing if they didn't come up with a chart for what kinds of things that characters of different levels could climb?
They don't really have to, because proficiency bonuses go from +2 to +6 over 20 levels, they're not going to make a huge difference as to what you can do with a skill check, unless you're a rogue, who gets double. More or less that translates to getting a +5% chance of doing 1st level tasks every 5 levels.
Yeah, great. Now, is climbing a ladder Very easy, or just easy? A brick wall? A rope?* A sheer cliff? An ice wall? Which of these is a 'first level task?'

The DC chart is still fucked. Very easy isn't worth rolling, and for most of the game, 'very hard' is impossible for a lot of people. And a no point are the DCs correlated with actual things. I can easily see different DMs (or even the same DM in different instances) decide that climbing a castle wall is anywhere from DC 15 to 25. And that is fucked up,

*bonus for rope being a thing you can buy, but it tells you zero about what it does. Only that you can burst it (presumably if tied up) with a DC17 strength check. Which is presumably medium-hard DC? Its a serious question, because its just a strength check, so it is actually significantly harder than an ability check. Also notably lacking is any sort of escape artist check for Dex based people.

More bonus stupid: the acrobatics description. 'Make acrobatics check to stay on your feet in a tricky situation, such as sheets of ice or tightropes. A DM might also call for an acrobatics check to see if you can perform acrobatic maneuvers. So... what the skill is named for is a sideline, and not the actual focus. Ok...


Skills are a four (or six for rogues) of about a dozen things I'm told I can care about at first level, and more importantly, a significant part of the handful of choices I'm actually allowed to make. That the game won't tell me what I can reasonably expect to do with those skills is fairly offensive.
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Post by Sakuya Izayoi »

Generally, if I'm called to pick up the dice when I want to climb something, it's because he wants to see my character fall on their butt hilariously, or plummet to their untimely demise (hilariously?)

Champions has the right idea. If you write "Climbing" on your sheet, it had better come with an exact measure of how fast you ascend vertically up a surface. Failing that, at least tell me exactly what kind of surface a Take 10 and Take 20 will get me up.
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Post by Voss »

Sakuya Izayoi wrote:Generally, if I'm called to pick up the dice when I want to climb something, it's because he wants to see my character fall on their butt hilariously, or plummet to their untimely demise (hilariously?)

Champions has the right idea. If you write "Climbing" on your sheet, it had better come with an exact measure of how fast you ascend vertically up a surface. Failing that, at least tell me exactly what kind of surface a Take 10 and Take 20 will get me up.
Its actually kind of weird, partly because the information is all over the fucking document, rather than together in some sort of sane fashion, but climbing, swimming and crawling all cost an extra foot of movement (or as sane people call it, 'double'). And so does difficult terrain (triple if both). This is on page 64, by the by. The rest of the movement rules are on p. 70-71.

Now ability checks are just progress. This is pretty important, because it means failing is never falling. It just explicitly means lack of progress (p58). Or, in a disturbing hint of quantum bear attacks, progress combined with a setback determined by the DM.

But I have no idea if a successful climb check (at DC whatever the fuck the DC might be, because it doesn't tell you) is 'you scale the wall' or 'you successfully moved half your speed up the wall.' Because actual details on success are left out of the game. And, assuming the DM doesn't screw you because bears, failure is just stasis.

The other aspect that makes how far you get unknown is because speed is on combat time. You move 30' in 6 seconds and can take an action. Ability checks on the other hand.... are in 'indeterminate' time. The game, again, just doesn't tell you. Presumably if you're making a climb check in combat, you move 15 feet, but out of combat climbing is ??

Weirdly you have to move at 2/3 speed to use stealth during overland travel, but none of the 4 places where hide rules are defined mention that restriction on combat time. Though I won't discount the possibility of a fifth place that hiding rules are mentioned.
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Post by infected slut princess »

D&D NEXT IS A CLEAR EFFORT BY THE PATRIARCHY TO PUSH DOWN WOMEN AND BLACK PEOPLE AND TRANNIES.

RACISM. THE BIGOTRY MUST END
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Post by Voss »

Actually, they're fairly reasonable with complex gender issues. However in a full page list of ethnicities, black people are noticeably not present, while at the same time, popular racist expy #1 is now inherently evil.

But from your tone, I take it you'd rather wallow in bigotry and racism, or at least pretend it has nothing to do with you.

But there is a thread for this already, and this one is pretty much mechanics.
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Post by Dogbert »

Personally I failed to find the text anti-player, but then I tend to skip intro and fluff text and go straight for the mechanics (at least this time you weren't required to fellate the DM to give you your CLASS FEATURES upon gaining a level).

I wasn't finding the text particularly vomit-inducing until I got to the equipment chapter and I saw that using skills was a stupid comedy of errors for any skill you didn't invest months of downtime and hundreds of gp (ie a toolkit) in because only then the game allows you to use your proficiency bonus.

That was the deal breaker, stopped reading then and there.
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Post by Voss »

Hmm? The crafting rules are stupid, yes (10 days for a potion of healing?), but that has nothing to do with most skills. Or even proficiency with most tools. And the tools are 50 gp tops.

Yes, training for new toolkits (i.e., not one of 1-3 you probably start with) takes a while). I'd expect learning how to be a blacksmith or alchemist or woodworker (which is what you're doing) to take a while. That you can learn the entire trade in 2/3rds of a year and at a fairly trivial cost (for an adventurer) is actually rather generous.
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Post by Username17 »

With just a year of fucking downtime, you too could become proficient with playing cards.

There are a couple major issues here. The first is that the primary currency you spend for one of the major forms of advancement is years of life; and Dwarves mature physically at 20 and die of old age at 350. Other races don't do that. The second issue is that there isn't a fucking skill list. Are you proficient in pitons? How about rope? Fuck this shit.

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Post by Voss »

Eh. I'll argue that. The skill list is on 58 and the tool list (essentially professions) is on 48. That is everything, unless they do the stupid thing and add more later (though that is possible, given their record on stupid decisions).

Ropes aren't tools, though (by their definition of the term). I have no idea what they actually do, but a climb check to go up a rope is based on strength and athletics, not rope.

I also wouldn't call learning how to make mundane equipment or play a violin a 'major form of advancement.' Its seriously trivial and (mostly) non-adventuring shit. The one that really matters (thieves tools, is available through class and background, and other useful adventuring ones (herbalism to make potions of healing) were also available through backgrounds in the playtest materials.

Now that it takes 10 days to crap out a shitty potion of healing, that could be an issue in a non-downtime campaign, and trying craft platemail is a function of insanely stupid crafting rules.
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Post by ishy »

Can anyone learn to use thieves tools (with 1 year downtime before play)?
tussock wrote:Remember when mounted to get the hell off your mount. Infact, never get on it. It can only kill "other creatures" if you're not sitting on it. So don't. Just, don't. Mounts are not for riding.
You might want to read that again.
Independent mounts can still kill other creatures.
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Post by Username17 »

Proficiency: playing cards is a thing that exists. I take it as given that you are therefore allowed to have proficiency with other crap that is unlisted. As you've noted, the ability to pick a fucking lock is defined as being proficient in an arbitrary tool. Thus, any other adventuring task you care to name, whether it's supposed to be exploration, social, or combat, could plausibly have an associated tool that you could be proficient in.

As for your claim that this isn't a major form of advancement: you are wrong. While I agree that the literal number being added is bullshit, I invite you to compare it to all other numerical bonuses you get for going up in level. Getting a +4 bonus instead of not is more than the difference between a first level character and a tenth level charac
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Post by tussock »

That the game won't tell me what I can reasonably expect to do with those skills is fairly offensive.
It tells you exactly what you can do with your Proficiencies and Skills. You may first ask the DM if you're allowed to do something, and then if you are you may nominate a Proficiency or Skill and ask to apply your Bonus to the ensuing check, unless the DM does it for you first.

Then you roll up the result and you ask the DM what happened. Maybe the DM even tells you, maybe they don't. That's D&D now. 900 pages of it.

Can you fall when climbing? Well, that depends on stuff, don't you know. Maybe make a Constitution save this time? DC just bit higher than whatever you roll seems right.


Edit: Mounts. Yes, riding NPCs is fine. Horses are fucking not, it is strictly optimal to never climb aboard. Which is weird, because Horses can be crazy expensive and not a problem when you can afford them. Except, D&D 5, so a horse is always a credible threat, as are dogs and children throwing sticks and stones.
Last edited by tussock on Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
PC, SJW, anti-fascist, not being a dick, or working on it, he/him.
TiaC
Knight-Baron
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Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:09 am

Post by TiaC »

So, can a peasant take down a demon lord with enough cows?
virgil wrote:Lovecraft didn't later add a love triangle between Dagon, Chtulhu, & the Colour-Out-of-Space; only to have it broken up through cyber-bullying by the King in Yellow.
FrankTrollman wrote:If your enemy is fucking Gravity, are you helping or hindering it by putting things on high shelves? I don't fucking know! That's not even a thing. Your enemy can't be Gravity, because that's stupid.
Voss
Prince
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Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Voss »

FrankTrollman wrote:Proficiency: playing cards is a thing that exists. I take it as given that you are therefore allowed to have proficiency with other crap that is unlisted. As you've noted, the ability to pick a fucking lock is defined as being proficient in an arbitrary tool. Thus, any other adventuring task you care to name, whether it's supposed to be exploration, social, or combat, could plausibly have an associated tool that you could be proficient in.

As for your claim that this isn't a major form of advancement: you are wrong. While I agree that the literal number being added is bullshit, I invite you to compare it to all other numerical bonuses you get for going up in level. Getting a +4 bonus instead of not is more than the difference between a first level character and a tenth level charac
Yes, you get a bonus, but you're arguing that proficiency:kazoo or language:Elf is real character power. I'm not particularly overwhelmed by the mundane and pointless stuff that you can pick up in downtime instead of spending real resources on it. The alternative that existed in playtest was to take a feat (instead of a +2 ability increase) that gave you +1 stat bonus and 3 skill proficiencies or languages or whatever, explicitly trading character resources for background skills. That is more bullshit (and, I expect, probably still in the game in some form).
Cyberzombie
Knight-Baron
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Post by Cyberzombie »

FrankTrollman wrote:Proficiency: playing cards is a thing that exists.
If you tell people you're a good player in D&DN, the proper terminology isn't that you know the rules well, you tell them you're really good at rolling dice.
Last edited by Cyberzombie on Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DSMatticus
King
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Post by DSMatticus »

FrankTrollman wrote:tenth level charac
RELEASE THE CHARAC
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