[Ars Magica 5] OOC: It's PeIm for darkness, not PeCo

[Prak]

The extra effect is lower level than the main effect, thus, so far as I saw (and I cop to skimming), no extra mag. needed.

It's not so much that I'm going for incapacitating wounds, as I had spell ideas that are just well represented that way, going with the whole norse angle.

My sheet so far is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zf5cnpnu8v40o ... harSh.xlsx

[Laertes]

Could I ask people to keep documents on google drive, please? The spreadsheets are juvenile, but it lets me view them on my phone and I'm more or less running this game on my phone during my commute.

Regarding secondary effects and requisites: the rule of thumb when designing a spell that has obvious primary and secondary effects is to take the highest-level effect, then add one magnitude per secondary effect along with the Arts as requisites. For example a spell that turns dirt into crystal is level 5, and a spell which accelerates dirt at someone in a forceful way is also level 5, so the combination the two is level 10 and is called The Crystal Dart, requiring both Rego and Muto for the two effects.

Edit to add another example: Similarly, if a short-range teleport effect is level 20, then you could make it level 25 and an Animal requisite to make it also teleport a stack of books you're carrying. If it was human skin that the books were made from, then it wouldn't need a requisite since both effects are Rego Corpus already. This is one of the reasons why necromancers use human skin and bones to make stuff.

[momothefiddler]

It appears that the benefits of Craftsmen, per Covenants, are unrelated to their Characteristics, instead keying directly off their Ability level. Is that true? Just making sure before I put it into the spreadsheet wrong.

[Laertes]

It appears that the benefits of Craftsmen, per Covenants, are unrelated to their Characteristics, instead keying directly off their Ability level. Is that true? Just making sure before I put it into the spreadsheet wrong.

True. A weak master blacksmith gives the same benefits as a strong master blacksmith.

[Prak]

I tried putting the sheet on Google docs and out didn't seemingly type work quite right, but I'll put it there and see if the actual character sheet will at least work there

[momothefiddler]

I also noticed Mythic Blood allows for my magical feat to be up to Level 30, so conceivably it could be Blow it Out Your Arse as you designed earlier with 0 penetration, right?

It occurs to me that (to my understanding) your magical feat can't ever be trained or changed. So if you take it at Penetration 0, you'll never be able to use it on anyone with any sort of magic resistance. As a spell, you could do that.

I don't know if that's an issue for you, though, or if you were only planning to use it on mundane people, or what. Just noting it.

[Laertes]

I also noticed Mythic Blood allows for my magical feat to be up to Level 30, so conceivably it could be Blow it Out Your Arse as you designed earlier with 0 penetration, right?

It occurs to me that (to my understanding) your magical feat can't ever be trained or changed. So if you take it at Penetration 0, you'll never be able to use it on anyone with any sort of magic resistance. As a spell, you could do that.

I don't know if that's an issue for you, though, or if you were only planning to use it on mundane people, or what. Just noting it.

This interpretation is correct, and is usually why people take their Mythic Blood power as something they would never be able to cast. For example, the Merinita in my tabletop game (now mostly retired) is a Rego Herbam mage whose Mythic Blood power lets him transform into a stag. Similarly, there's an NPC who has Unravelling the Fabric of Auram as his despite not being a PeVi caster.

That's one of the reasons I suggested Rising Ire: besides it being very characterful spell, it's also far enough outside of his wheelhouse that it's not something that'll easily go obsolete.

That said, the other advantage of the Mythic Blood power is that it always succeeds. This means he can murder fools in hostile auras, which is always nice.

[Leetkeis]

It bears his new name, asserts that he is neither German nor a Magyar, and certifies that his Gauntlet was witnessed by Quaesitors Athanasia ex Tremeri, Etrusco ex Guernici and Ahmed Caush Ongunar ex Miscellaneii.

I'm just wondering, what is different when someone is German?

[Laertes]

It bears his new name, asserts that he is neither German nor a Magyar, and certifies that his Gauntlet was witnessed by Quaesitors Athanasia ex Tremeri, Etrusco ex Guernici and Ahmed Caush Ongunar ex Miscellaneii.

I'm just wondering, what is different when someone is German?

Your characters don't know this, but every Grand Tribunal basically features the following dialogue:

RHINE TRIBUNAL: "Hey Novgorod, can we have some of your vis sources and auras? You aren't using them."

NOVGOROD TRIBUNAL: "We are using them. We just aren't using them as intensively as you, and aren't waging wars of annihilation against hedge traditions who use them."

RHINE TRIBUNAL: "Can we flood you with colonists who'll have more cultural links back to us than to your local magical culture, thus leading you to be assimilated and end up in a hidebound political structure dominated by powerful elder magi and Autumn covenants?"

NOVGOROD TRIBUNAL: "No!"

RHINE TRIBUNAL: "Pweeeeeeeeese?"

NOVGOROD TRIBUNAL: "No!"

TRANSYLVANIAN TRIBUNAL: "What about us? We're not dominated by the politics of old, feuding Autumn covenants. We're dominated by a single old covenant which dictates everything and views autonomy as rebellion. That's better, right?"

NOVGOROD TRIBUNAL: "You can fuck off too."



Because of this, the Novgorod Tribunal is not welcoming to German and Hungarian magi. You would not have been invited to this event if you had been.

[momothefiddler]

Fascinating! I like that a lot. Thanks.

[Prak]

Ok, here's my sheet on Drive: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B57GMl ... sp=sharing

The actual character sheet is the last page.

[Korgan0]

I fiddled around with my sheet a little more, and added stats for the bookbinder/leatherworker and two identical twin shield grogs.

[Laertes]

Prak: It looks good; you're probably going to end up being shanghaied in as the covenant's healer / longevity ritualist. (Normally this is the indignity given to necromancers or blastmages; here it falls to you.) A few comments:

- Outsider is a social status. Since magi already have a social status they can't get a second one. As such, Outsider is unavailable to magi. (Or, if you prefer to think of it this way, everybody already has it as part of the Hermetic Magus package.)
- I don't know whether you care, but putting 1 point in lots of Arts is considered inefficient chargen.
- Just being Norse isn't normally a social disadvantage, because that flaw also triggers when you're amongst other Norse people. However, being really dramatically Norse in a way that makes other Norse people embarrassed to be with you might be. Alternatively, you can interpret it as being the Incredible Insult Squirrel: you tend to make fun of everyone and so they instantly take offence.
- I'll get you the stats for a squirrel when I have the chance.

Also, we seem to have a lot of Study Bonus / Study Requirement. This isn't a problem; it's better than many covenants I've seen where everyone has Book Learner.

[Prak]

Prak: It looks good; you're probably going to end up being shanghaied in as the covenant's healer / longevity ritualist. (Normally this is the indignity given to necromancers or blastmages; here it falls to you.) A few comments:

- Outsider is a social status. Since magi already have a social status they can't get a second one. As such, Outsider is unavailable to magi. (Or, if you prefer to think of it this way, everybody already has it as part of the Hermetic Magus package.)

Ah, crap. I guess once I finished with Virtues my mind said "Welp, don't have to skip social stuff anymore!" and didn't notice it was a social status. I'll pick something else.

- I don't know whether you care, but putting 1 point in lots of Arts is considered inefficient chargen.

Yeah, I'm kind of reconsidering since I had originally done that thinking I would need a score in an art to use it. This will probably mean that my creo, muto and rego go up.

- Just being Norse isn't normally a social disadvantage, because that flaw also triggers when you're amongst other Norse people. However, being really dramatically Norse in a way that makes other Norse people embarrassed to be with you might be. Alternatively, you can interpret it as being the Incredible Insult Squirrel: you tend to make fun of everyone and so they instantly take offence.

Well, to be fair it'd be a huge social disadvantage outside of norse controlled areas, given their medieval reputation as defilers of All That Is Good And Christian.

Actually, hell, Pagan is probably a bit of a handicap too...

Also, we seem to have a lot of Study Bonus / Study Requirement. This isn't a problem; it's better than many covenants I've seen where everyone has Book Learner.

I can only imagine what those games were like.

[Laertes]

Well, to be fair it'd be a huge social disadvantage outside of norse controlled areas, given their medieval reputation as defilers of All That Is Good And Christian.

Actually, hell, Pagan is probably a bit of a handicap too...

The reputation of the Scandiwegians in Ruthenia is as traders and city builders. (Those were mostly Swedes rather than Norse, but the Ruthenians can't tell the difference.)

If you take Social Disadvantage, it counts among other wizards too, and amongst other Norse people. This is why it's a flaw. I'm not saying *don't* take it, I'm just saying be prepared for even other Vikings to be all pissed at you for it.

Pagan is a story flaw. Most people don't really care about it and treat you like a normal person, but every so often a bishop or someone comes along and is totally like "Convert or die, heathen!" and you're totally like "No way!" and it causes story.

I can only imagine what those games were like.

They were mostly fine, it's just that they had worked out that if they all took Book Learner and wrote books for each other, they would all gain lots of XP.

[Laertes]

I'm on my phone right now so please pardon the lack of formatting - square brackets are annoyingly difficult like this.

Prak, here is some commentary upon your spells. They're little things mostly; you seem to have gotten the hang of the magic system.

Travelling the World Tree: Perfect.

Petrified Wood: The base "turn to Terram" version would just turn it to dirt. Add one magnitude to have the option of stone, and two to have the option of metal. (These are Terram rules, not Herbam.)

Forgotten Cache: Add one magnitude if you want the option of processed plant products (cloth instead of cotton, rope instead of hemp, raisins instead of grapes, et cetera.)

Draw and Quarter: Use the highest base, which is PeCo 20 to remove a limb or cause an incapacitating wound. Add magnitudes for duration and target as you've done. Now add a magnitude and a Rego requisite for the second, easier effect (base 10, control a target's motions.) The end result would be:

Draw and Quarter
Perdo (Rego) Corpus level 35
R: Touch D: Conc T: Ind
The caster lifts a target into the air, arms and legs splayed and slowly pulled apart from each other as if tied to four horses. The primary effect is the target being held in the air, but the spell also injures the target as their limbs are pulled slowly, but strongly. The casting of the spell can inflict an Incapacitating Wound on the target, sever a limb, or be used with less force to inflict lesser wounds instead.
(Base 20, +1 for Touch, +1 Conc, +1 Rego requisite.)

Please note that it can either be written as Re(Pe) or Pe(Re). The maths is identical so it's up to the spell's inventor as to which one you want to list as primary.

The Blood Eagle: There's two ways I can see to do this one. On the one hand, you can do it as basically two spells that are combined as you've done, a Perdo Corpus and Creo Herbam combo. It would have one additional magnitude over the effect that you've statted because of the secondary effect and the Creo Herbam requisite. That would be a fine spell.

On the other hand, and I'm just exploring here, you could do the following:

Nine Days And Nine Nights Hung Odin Upon The Tree. I'm Guessing You Won't Last As Long
Creo(Rego) Herbam, level 20
R: Touch D: Conc T: Ind
In an instant, a mighty oak tree appears from the earth behind the target, grabbing them with its branches and tearing them apart. The target is automatically grappled and held helplessly if the spell penetrates their magic resistance. Each turn, the target may make a Strength roll of 12+ to break free. Each turn that they fail or do not attempt to escape, the spell inflicts +10 damage on them.
(Base 4, +1 Touch, +1 Conc, +1 Creo requisite, +1 to make escape rolls harder.)

SOUS: The level 5 version of the spell will increase your Size by 1, making you a large squirrel that can win fights against other squirrels but is still smaller than a fox or a cat. I recommend the following instead. It's not really spontable but might be useful nonetheless.

SOUS
Muto Animal level 15
R: Per D: Conc T: Ind
Adds +7 to the size of the caster when they are in their Heartbeast form. This will take a squirrel up to the size of a horse.
(Base 4, +1 Conc, +2 for increased effect.)

SORUS
Muto Animal level 20
R: Per D: Conc T: Ind
Adds +10 to the size of the caster when they are in their Heartbeast form. This will take a squirrel up to the size of an elephant.
(Base 4, +1 Conc, +3 for increased effect.)

Here are Nidratr's stats in squirrel form:

Intelligence +2
Perception 0
Presence -2
Communication +1
Strength -7
Stamina +3
Dexterity +2
Quickness +2

Size -4
Soak +3
Wound Penalties: -1 (1), -3 (2), -5 (3), Incap (4)

Brawl 2 (Dodging)
Survival 3 (Forest)
Awareness 3 (Predators)
Athletics 4 (Climbing)

Lightning Reflexes
Perfect Balance
Short Attention Spa - Ooh look, shiny!

Camouflage (+3 to hiding rolls while stationary)
Good Jumper (+3 to jumping rolls)
Large Teeth (Improved combat stats)
Skilled Climber (+3 to climbing rolls)
Mimicry (IF Com<0 THEN Com=0 ELSE Com++) (included in stats)

Combat stats with teeth (note that these will need to be recalculated if you use SOUS):
Init +2, Attack +8, Damage -4, Defence +6

[Prak]

Petrified Wood: The base "turn to Terram" version would just turn it to dirt. Add one magnitude to have the option of stone, and two to have the option of metal. (These are Terram rules, not Herbam.)

Page 137 has turning wood into stone as a MuHe level 4, +1 mag for greater duration, +1 mag for touch range (since I am not a plant), would be level 10. I mean, I'll change it if you say so, but by the book it's an Herbam (Terram) effect. The book doesn't even have "turn wood into stone" on the MuTe list.

Forgotten Cache: Add one magnitude if you want the option of processed plant products (cloth instead of cotton, rope instead of hemp, raisins instead of grapes, et cetera.)

Ah, gotcha. I'm thinking I may make it a "common spont." effect rather than a formulae, since it's so low level.

Draw and Quarter: Use the highest base, which is PeCo 20 to remove a limb or cause an incapacitating wound. Add magnitudes for duration and target as you've done. Now add a magnitude and a Rego requisite for the second, easier effect (base 10, control a target's motions.) The end result would be:

Draw and Quarter
Perdo (Rego) Corpus level 35
R: Touch D: Conc T: Ind
The caster lifts a target into the air, arms and legs splayed and slowly pulled apart from each other as if tied to four horses. The primary effect is the target being held in the air, but the spell also injures the target as their limbs are pulled slowly, but strongly. The casting of the spell can inflict an Incapacitating Wound on the target, sever a limb, or be used with less force to inflict lesser wounds instead.
(Base 20, +1 for Touch, +1 Conc, +1 Rego requisite.)

Please note that it can either be written as Re(Pe) or Pe(Re). The maths is identical so it's up to the spell's inventor as to which one you want to list as primary.

Yeah, that one took some designing, so I think I just confused myself.

The Blood Eagle: There's two ways I can see to do this one. On the one hand, you can do it as basically two spells that are combined as you've done, a Perdo Corpus and Creo Herbam combo. It would have one additional magnitude over the effect that you've statted because of the secondary effect and the Creo Herbam requisite. That would be a fine spell.

On the other hand, and I'm just exploring here, you could do the following:

Nine Days And Nine Nights Hung Odin Upon The Tree. I'm Guessing You Won't Last As Long
Creo(Rego) Herbam, level 20
R: Touch D: Conc T: Ind
In an instant, a mighty oak tree appears from the earth behind the target, grabbing them with its branches and tearing them apart. The target is automatically grappled and held helplessly if the spell penetrates their magic resistance. Each turn, the target may make a Strength roll of 12+ to break free. Each turn that they fail or do not attempt to escape, the spell inflicts +10 damage on them.
(Base 4, +1 Touch, +1 Conc, +1 Creo requisite, +1 to make escape rolls harder.)

Honestly, it's probably not bad to have both spells. After I restat my arts, I might take both.

SOUS: The level 5 version of the spell will increase your Size by 1, making you a large squirrel that can win fights against other squirrels but is still smaller than a fox or a cat. I recommend the following instead. It's not really spontable but might be useful nonetheless.


SOUS
Muto Animal level 15
R: Per D: Conc T: Ind
Adds +7 to the size of the caster when they are in their Heartbeast form. This will take a squirrel up to the size of a horse.
(Base 4, +1 Conc, +2 for increased effect.)

SORUS
Muto Animal level 20
R: Per D: Conc T: Ind
Adds +10 to the size of the caster when they are in their Heartbeast form. This will take a squirrel up to the size of an elephant.
(Base 4, +1 Conc, +3 for increased effect.)

Ok, yeah, in my perusing, I couldn't tell what I needed to do to design a spell that increased size by more than 1.

[Laertes]

Page 137 has turning wood into stone as a MuHe level 4, +1 mag for greater duration, +1 mag for touch range (since I am not a plant), would be level 10. I mean, I'll change it if you say so, but by the book it's an Herbam (Terram) effect. The book doesn't even have "turn wood into stone" on the MuTe list.

Well spotted. Yep. Your initial reading was right, then.

(Aaagh, the inconsistencies between Arts annoy me in this game. I understand that it's like that to make the game function at all, but it's annoying.)

[Laertes]

Also - could the players please give me a steer on whether you want to set off in a convoy with supplies, grogs and seed capital to build a covenant from scratch, or whether you want to turn up and find the buildings already there because your grogs arrived a year ago and put it up while you were finishing your Gauntlets?

So far, momothefiddler has voted for a blank start, since he wants the sense of satisfaction that comes from doing it all yourself and the sense of ownership that that brings; and Korgan0 has voted for an existing covenant because he doesn't want to wait for a year before he can actually do lab stuff.

[momothefiddler]

SOUS
Muto Animal level 15
R: Per D: Conc T: Ind
Adds +7 to the size of the caster when they are in their Heartbeast form. This will take a squirrel up to the size of a horse.
(Base 4, +1 Conc, +2 for increased effect.)

SORUS
Muto Animal level 20
R: Per D: Conc T: Ind
Adds +10 to the size of the caster when they are in their Heartbeast form. This will take a squirrel up to the size of an elephant.
(Base 4, +1 Conc, +3 for increased effect.)

Do these apply similarly to Leetkeis' bear form (with the obvious addition of +1 Size)?

Also, am I missing something about Concentration? Because it seems like that's absolutely not something you want to maintain while fighting (answering yes or no to an easy question is difficulty 12, so I can't imagine what it would be to dodge a spear while clamping your horrifically monstrous incisors down on someone's head).

[Laertes]

SOUS
Muto Animal level 15
R: Per D: Conc T: Ind
Adds +7 to the size of the caster when they are in their Heartbeast form. This will take a squirrel up to the size of a horse.
(Base 4, +1 Conc, +2 for increased effect.)

SORUS
Muto Animal level 20
R: Per D: Conc T: Ind
Adds +10 to the size of the caster when they are in their Heartbeast form. This will take a squirrel up to the size of an elephant.
(Base 4, +1 Conc, +3 for increased effect.)

Do these apply similarly to Leetkeis' bear form (with the obvious addition of +1 Size)?

Yes.

Also, am I missing something about Concentration? Because it seems like that's absolutely not something you want to maintain while fighting (answering yes or no to an easy question is difficulty 12, so I can't imagine what it would be to dodge a spear while clamping your horrifically monstrous incisors down on someone's head).

Yeah, concentration duration is difficult for combat spells. Diam might be better - two minutes is a long time in a melee.

[Leetkeis]

Also - could the players please give me a steer on whether you want to set off in a convoy with supplies, grogs and seed capital to build a covenant from scratch, or whether you want to turn up and find the buildings already there because your grogs arrived a year ago and put it up while you were finishing your Gauntlets?

I would prefer starting from scratch. It would be a much better way to connect with the locals.

[Korgan0]

I'm ambivalent.

[Korgan0]

So, I just had a weird thought - how the hell are we going to communicate with our grogs? Do most grogs know enough latin that we can get by, or should I put some Ruthenian on my character sheet?

[momothefiddler]

My understanding is that most of us, at least, will share the same Native Language as our own grogs.

Each other's grogs, though, and the locals...