Annoying Game Questions You Want Answered

[Eikre]

The thing that I am implying is that people will, when they are playing a game, voluntarily submit to an element of random chance, even when they are perfectly entitled to refrain from such an undertaking, and even when they understand that the result of a luck-based element will be a game scenario where circumstances are less than 100% to their liking, because such people hold novelty and challenge in high esteem and recognize leisurely fortune as a way of providing both. Furthermore, such people possess the emotional maturity to not only withstand the inevitable session or two of terrible fortune, but, indeed, to contextualize their efforts within the game circumstances that are provided by that fortune and have fun doing their best anyway, because it is a game, and ultimately the results per se are not, to such people, necessarily more important that the procedure which leads to them.

I don't think I'm proving anything. I guess we could go point-by-point on this and I could answer whatever other tepid points you want to raise in the effort to prove that I do not have fun, but there is literally nobody else here who can't understand why a private group of eccentrics may elect to flaunt convention and play a round of a game with novel house rules, even the people who think that those rules would probably be really shitty to write in a game manual for general consumption. It is nonetheless a hill that you are relentlessly eager to die on and the quality of the assertions you make in that baffling pursuit do not make me feel particularly rewarded to answer with anything other than glib snipes.

Last I checked, when I play Rogue I choose my own .

[Kaelik]

I could answer whatever other tepid points you want to raise in the effort to prove that I do not have fun, but there is literally nobody else here who can't understand why a private group of eccentrics may elect to flaunt convention and play a round of a game with novel house rules

I'm not disputing that you are a sadist, a masochist, or an easily entertained dolt who watches two and half men and thinks it is the height of comedy because pictures move on the screen. I don't care whether or not you have fun.

I'm just saying that the things you actually claimed are full of shit, like that nonstandard magic formats are somehow quick generation, or that a game format involving 3.5, gestalt, rolled in order stats, and starting again at level 1 with each new character is "super sweet."

[Eikre]

you actually claimed ... that nonstandard magic formats are somehow quick generation

lol, we've had like five posts a piece in this conversation and you're already losing track.

[Kaelik]

you actually claimed ... that nonstandard magic formats are somehow quick generation

lol, we've had like five posts a piece in this conversation and you're already losing track.

No, you are just an idiot. Zathran said that dumbass roll for shit is great because it's so fast, I pointed out that it's not fast, you countered by saying that magic formats do the same thing.

If you weren't talking about speed, then why the fuck did you open your dumb mouth?

[Eikre]

Well, it is possible that I was

implying that people will, when they are playing a game, voluntarily submit to an element of random chance, even when they are perfectly entitled to refrain from such an undertaking, and even when they understand that the result of a luck-based element will be a game scenario where circumstances are less than 100% to their liking, because such people hold novelty and challenge in high esteem and recognize leisurely fortune as a way of providing both. Furthermore, such people possess the emotional maturity to not only withstand the inevitable session or two of terrible fortune, but, indeed, to contextualize their efforts within the game circumstances that are provided by that fortune and have fun doing their best anyway, because it is a game, and ultimately the results per se are not, to such people, necessarily more important that the procedure which leads to them.

To make this implication, I used the allegory of an MTG draft as contrasted against a constructed format. This allegory was conveyed in an immature mimicry of your own words, because

the quality of the assertions you make does not make me feel particularly rewarded to answer with anything other than glib snipes.

[Kaelik]

Why does gitp have like a monthly villian contest that always requires and has only level 20 builds, even though those are totally worthless, because the entire fucking point of a villian is to use it at the level the PCs are actually going to fucking face it, which in 99.99% of games isn't level 20, so why the fuck do you have a build that doesn't do the thing it does until level 20?

[Judging__Eagle]

Why does gitp have like a monthly villian contest that always requires and has only level 20 builds, even though those are totally worthless, because the entire fucking point of a villian is to use it at the level the PCs are actually going to fucking face it, which in 99.99% of games isn't level 20, so why the fuck do you have a build that doesn't do the thing it does until level 20?

The WoTC char op boards were the start of this trend. It's mostly mental masturbation.

However, this could also be related to the fact that people also seem to have this concept that any character they see in media is a level 20 character. Thus any "Thor" build must be level 20, instead of level 10 + artifact items, likewise Aragorn, when he's likely just level 6 (like most Greek demigods/heroes tend towards).

One exception to the whole "only finished builds actually work" nature of CO boards builds might be the "Roland Bear of the North" build, which scaled up from level 1 pretty well; even using PHB fighter at levels 1-2.

[virgil]

What's the general consensus on the Spellstitched Template in 3.5, for NPCs/monsters? All discussions I could find about it on the Den only spoke of its effect on players; with nary a mention of whether it's CR modifier is too much/little, flaws in design, ideal spell lists, etc.

[Kaelik]

What's the general consensus on the Spellstitched Template in 3.5, for NPCs/monsters? All discussions I could find about it on the Den only spoke of its effect on players; with nary a mention of whether it's CR modifier is too much/little, flaws in design, ideal spell lists, etc.

It modifies the CR the same whether you apply it to a CR 17 undead and it allows you to get a couple first level spells as SLAs, or whether you apply it to a CR 2 undead, that becomes CR 3 and casts the spell Cloudkill, no save killing everyone...

It's... Just eyeball it.

[OgreBattle]

What games out there deliver the D&D dungeon crawling lvl 1-8ish feeling with a classless system? Bonus points if it's well done (or angers you the least).

Earthdawn was not as "D&D experience with Shadowrun rules" as I thought it'd be.

[Schleiermacher]

GURPS? Fantasy HERO? (The latter scales well upward, the former is probably a better option at the low end)

[Koumei]

A druid who ceases to revere nature, changes to a prohibited alignment, or teaches the Druidic language to a nondruid loses all spells and druid abilities (including her animal companion, but not including weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She cannot thereafter gain levels as a druid until she atones (see the atonement spell description).

By RAW, does the standard Nymph lose her Druid spellcasting due to being Chaotic Good (when Druids need to be at least partially Neutral in order to cast spells)?

If not (and even if yes by RAW, assuming people apply mind caulk), I get that they can't go on to take actual Druid levels, so are there full-casting Druidic PrCls for which they qualify right off the bat, not including Den creations?

[Kaelik]

A druid who ceases to revere nature, changes to a prohibited alignment, or teaches the Druidic language to a nondruid loses all spells and druid abilities (including her animal companion, but not including weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She cannot thereafter gain levels as a druid until she atones (see the atonement spell description).

By RAW, does the standard Nymph lose her Druid spellcasting due to being Chaotic Good (when Druids need to be at least partially Neutral in order to cast spells)?

If not (and even if yes by RAW, assuming people apply mind caulk), I get that they can't go on to take actual Druid levels, so are there full-casting Druidic PrCls for which they qualify right off the bat, not including Den creations?

The losing spells from alignment is a druid class feature, Nymphs don't have it.

[Koumei]

Good point, it does say "A Druid who...", and in a section titled "Ex-Druids". Derp.

[radthemad4]

If not (and even if yes by RAW, assuming people apply mind caulk), I get that they can't go on to take actual Druid levels, so are there full-casting Druidic PrCls for which they qualify right off the bat, not including Den creations?

Are you willing to change up skill ranks and feats? Adding fey hit die could open up some options(+1 CR for +4 HD). Do bullshit requirements like 'must be a member of the paragnostic assembly' matter?

[Prak]

Why not just say that nymph is NG? Or CN?

[Koumei]

This is entirely a hypothetical, I'm not actually playing one or anything, and if I need to use stronger Nymphs in a game I ever run I can obviously just use the PrCls I made.

I was just curious about it. As for extra hit dice, it just says they cast as a seventh-level Druid, not "a Druid of a level equal to its CR" or "a Druid equal to its HD + 1" or anything like that. So going up to 12 HD for +1 or 2 CR doesn't advance the casting.

[radthemad4]

The HD thing was in case there weren't any decent standard nymph obtainable prcs at 6 HD, since 4 extra HD would increase max skill ranks, BAB, saves and get a bonus feat as well.

New question: What published prcs are the easiest to qualify for?

[Pixels]

Survivor probably takes the cake for fast and easy entry, with minimum entry at 2nd level. It's also the only class in 3.5e (that I can recall) with a non-standard BAB progression, if that tickles your fancy.

It's also basically useless, but hey.

Off the top of my head, a PrC that was actually worth taking was Church Inquisitor. Easy prerequisites with entry at 4th level, no lost caster levels, and you pick up some decent benefits before you enter your real PrC at 6th.

[OgreBattle]

What games do "Lifepath character generation" well? I just read through Traveler and want to see more

[ETortoise]

Burning Wheel and Burning Empires both use lifepaths. They're not the same as Traveller since you are able to choose which lifepath you go to (with some restrictions) rather than roll to see if you pass the entrance exam. In BW the lifepaths are really variable; a character who goes "Born Noble -> Page ->Squire -> Knight" is going to be a combat monster with some social skills, while another that goes "Born Town -> Urchin -> Gaol -> Leper" is going to have OK social skills, a limp, a deadly disease and no shoes. In practice you have to decide on a strong setting and theme for the game and ideally build characters together. It's a hard game to get off the ground. It's also fun to sit with the book and trace fun little backstories for hypothetical characters by following the different leads or seeing how few lifepaths you can use to get from Born Slave to High Priest or whatever.

Aside from the high overhead, it has a few other disadvantages:

There is a very strongly implied Medieval European setting that's hard to escape without writing or rewriting a lot of lifepaths.
Elves are best, Dwarves and Orcs are good and Humans are OK (except for Wizards, who are also best.) Orcs can also lose their limbs during chargen.
You don't typically get enough skill or resource points to fully kit out your character. The above Knight does pretty well but he can't start out with his gear, a home, a squire, and a family. In fact, he might only get one or two of those.

[Ice9]

New question: What published prcs are the easiest to qualify for?

Master of Many Forms can be entered at 2nd level if you're ok with cheese (Mulhorandi Divine Minion template).
Warshaper has a fairly hard BAB +4, but other than that there are several LA +0 races that qualify - Changeling, for instance.
Mystic Theurge can be entered early (3rd level) with some tricks.

I wouldn't call it "easy" since it requires a number of feats, but Shadowcraft Mage can be entered early with the same metamagic-reducing tricks that you'd want to have anyway for best use of their class features.

[radthemad4]

Survivor probably takes the cake for fast and easy entry, with minimum entry at 2nd level. It's also the only class in 3.5e (that I can recall) with a non-standard BAB progression, if that tickles your fancy.

It's also basically useless, but hey.

Off the top of my head, a PrC that was actually worth taking was Church Inquisitor. Easy prerequisites with entry at 4th level, no lost caster levels, and you pick up some decent benefits before you enter your real PrC at 6th.

I think Survivor is for tagalong mcguffin NPCs. Kinda amusing in a way.

Yeah, Church Inquisitor is neat.

Master of Many Forms can be entered at 2nd level if you're ok with cheese (Mulhorandi Divine Minion template).
Warshaper has a fairly hard BAB +4, but other than that there are several LA +0 races that qualify - Changeling, for instance.
Mystic Theurge can be entered early (3rd level) with some tricks.

I wouldn't call it "easy" since it requires a number of feats, but Shadowcraft Mage can be entered early with the same metamagic-reducing tricks that you'd want to have anyway for best use of their class features.

Master of Many Forms requires a two feat tax (Alertness and Endurance). I like when PRCs have multiple qualification options like Warshaper does. Similarly, there's the Ruathar (6 BAB, 9 skill ranks in anything, OR 3rd level spells for 3/4 BAB, Full Casting, and a weapon proficiency, which is decent filler for abjchamp without losing caster levels if you don't have racial proficiencies). Yeah, I think I'll count Shadowcraft Mage as well, as you probably want Spell Focus Illusion anyway.

Thanks guys.

[Schleiermacher]

Master Specialist, from Complete Mage, is also "stumble into it by accident"-levels of easy to qualify for (and you can do it at level 3), but it's only for specialist wizards. (It's also a naked power-up to a set of characters who really don't need it, but it's hardly unique in that.)

[radthemad4]

Spell focus: Whatever and ranks in stuff you'll probably want anyway. Yeah, that's neat.

IMO all prcs should be "stumble into it by accident" levels of easy to qualify for, which is sort of why I was curious about the ones that were.