[Dom4] LiveFree - Game On!

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:23 pm

Turn 32 is out.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:58 am

Nice, turn was fairly simple. Pangaea can expect a package, and Ulm can gasp in amazement at the fact that there were indeed troops ready to move south.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:12 am

Avoraciopoctules wrote:Nice, turn was fairly simple. Pangaea can expect a package, and Ulm can gasp in amazement at the fact that there were indeed troops ready to move south.

?

I havent seen the turn yet but the fact you can send more troops south does not impress. Your cap is literally like 2 turns away from the border.

Besides, really, my every reaction to your attacks boils down to scorn or "Bring it the fuck on". And Pangaea's stuff is like 10 times more impressive than what you keep throwing my way

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:31 am

You keep making these noticeable factual errors, and I keep wondering whether it's just bad scout reports or you are actively trying to make me underestimate your awareness. Puzzling.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:42 am

Avoraciopoctules wrote:You keep making these noticeable factual errors, and I keep wondering whether it's just bad scout reports or you are actively trying to make me underestimate your awareness. Puzzling.

Well, to be fair "Pangaea's stuff being ten times more impressive" is a bit of an exaggeration, but given his stuff could assuredly kill things while your Lamshatas merely flailed about really puts the TC Army in the "unimpressive" column.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:44 pm

I'm confused, TC. Was I supposed to be impressed by that army?

Yes, it ran over some PD and unsupported crossbowmen, but you really can't expect me to not notice that it is now only fielding less than half the number of mages as your original southern army; not to mention it now includes a lot more budget items like footmen.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:53 pm

So long as I only need to worry about one avenue of invasion from my southern neighbor, I'm not too worried what you're impressed with.

I recalled you saying something about how T'ien Ch'i had moved all its forces north, so I proved that statement wrong with some reserves. Since your forces are reduced, I shouldn't need as much force to ensure you can't threaten the throne. They might raid again if the reward is worth writing off the army, but I don't think I see a worthwhile prize this turn.

You are welcome to provide evidence otherwise, of course. Perhaps it is even possible that Marignon is keeping all of Pangaea's armies occupied, and you can field enough power for a decisive victory.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:03 am

Avoraciopoctules wrote:I recalled you saying something about how T'ien Ch'i had moved all its forces north, so I proved that statement wrong with some reserves.

You're still caught up with nonsense selective memory as opposed to actual realities. The reality is that your "reserves" are again far less impressive than your original army. Fewer mages. More budget troops.

Again, who are you fooling?

Dominions is about attrition, and all I'm seeing is that TC is indeed being attrited terribly and their follow-on armies are less well supported, less well trained, and less capable than the ones before them. That would be worrisome if I was suffering similar levels of losses, but the reality is that the Death Star has remained largely intact and you've been celebrating the destruction of what were simply anti-raiding nubs.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:50 am

You are certainly welcome to give evidence for your arguments.

Dr_Noface · Post by **Dr_Noface** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:20 am

the shit talk is palpable

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:42 am

As a casual viewer, can I just say:

1) People should talk about what they are doing more. Or make self serving political statements if that works.

2) The fact that Frank isn't saying anything... makes it seem like he is contentedly chewing Tien Chi to happiness.

3) It is funny to watch Av's completely insane early game where he got cocky because of one alliance turn on him because he picked too many fights and no one was content to let him fuck with them. Although, pictures of the current state of the Tien Chi/Pangea/Ulm border would be appreciated, because that shit is confusing.

Red_Rob · Post by **Red_Rob** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:09 am

I think an important thing to realise about this game is that having score graphs off makes everyone way more cagey - noone is really sure how much information the other players have, so noone wants to blurt out something that changes the other players perception of you. I certainly have no real insight into the power structure way on the other side of the map, and information such as relative research and gem income that is normally a big indicator of how dangerous someone is are pretty much entirely opaque.

Being seen as too strong or too weak can both be disastrous in a Multiplayer game, so bigging up your position or talking it down could both bite you in the ass. I think this is why people aren't generally talking about their position.

On a personal note, I'm about to plunge into Agartha's underground holdings and I was wondering if anyone had a definitive list of the penalties for cave fighting. Is there a "Darkvision" spell or one that dispels darkness, or is that magic items only?

K · Post by K » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:44 am

Darkness gives the penalties for Blindness, so -8 to Att, Def, and Precision.

Darkvision removes a percentage of those penalties (for example, 50 Darkvision is only a -4 to stats and 100 DV is -0). Undead and demons see normally in darkness, as well as some special blind-immune units like Vine Ogres and Blindlords.

The only way to dispel darkness is with Solar Brilliance, a powerful Astral spell. There are also some items for commanders to give only them darkvision. There is a Throne that gives darkvision to blessed units.

Caves start in darkness, but I've also seen some non-cave province battles in darkness very rarely. Also, some assassination battles.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:53 am

K wrote:as well as some special blind-immune units like Vine Ogres and Blindlords.

There are units called blindlords?

K · Post by K » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:07 am

Kaelik wrote:
K wrote:as well as some special blind-immune units like Vine Ogres and Blindlords.
There are units called blindlords?

LA Agartha has a commander type by that name. They also have a troop type call Blind Fighters.

As you might have guessed, they are blind.

Red_Rob · Post by **Red_Rob** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:34 am

I thought they changed the Darkness penalties in Dom4? I seem to remember a sliding scale of darkness from Night to Utterdark giving increasing penalties maxing at -8. I know that fighting in a Deep Sea province gives a -3 Darkness penalty for example.

K wrote:The only way to dispel darkness is with Solar Brilliance, a powerful Astral spell.

Isn't that the one that also blinds every unit on the battlefield? That would be kind of counterproductive

I hadn't thought about Undead, that might be an option. Not sure I want to spend those tasty, tasty Death gems though. Might just knock up some Dragon Helms for the Skratti and see how that goes.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:03 pm

Turn 33 is out. Also, my site-searchers have found the Vale of Infinite Horror, so... my apologies if that inconveniences anyone.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:37 pm

Kaelik wrote:3) It is funny to watch Av's completely insane early game where he got cocky because of one alliance turn on him because he picked too many fights and no one was content to let him fuck with them. Although, pictures of the current state of the Tien Chi/Pangea/Ulm border would be appreciated, because that shit is confusing.

The essentials are as follows:

Pangaea is to the west of Ulm, but most of the border is across a river and he mainly hides behind that for most of the year (until it becomes passable during the winter).

TC is to the east of Ulm, having taken a bunch of pretty worthless provinces from us because we were too busy defending from Pangaea's incursion last year.

Ulm's just a three-province country at this point, so we're not winning the game, but I am perfectly happy serving as the southern irritant to the Pangaea-TC alliance; and as Frank noted it has already paid dividends with a Pangaean army being overrun.

And really, I'd like to show the turn but it'd be giving a way a bit too many Ulmish state secrets. However, I can say that the pussy-footing by the Pangaean and TC armies down south is palpable. There are turns where they literally move away just because the Death Star is adjacent to them; even when the Death Star wasn't even planning to attack them.

Fortunately for me (and yes, I said fortunately), they seem to be getting a little desperate and have clearly telegraphed their intention to launch simultaneous attacks on my three remaining provinces; devoting an entire "army" for each province. That's fine with me. Having only three provinces to defend only means that the moment I flatten the army that attacks the spot the Death Star chooses to defend, there will be two juicy alternate targets to hit the turn right after

.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:59 pm

Red_Rob wrote:I think an important thing to realise about this game is that having score graphs off makes everyone way more cagey - noone is really sure how much information the other players have, so noone wants to blurt out something that changes the other players perception of you. I certainly have no real insight into the power structure way on the other side of the map, and information such as relative research and gem income that is normally a big indicator of how dangerous someone is are pretty much entirely opaque.

Quite true. For Ulm though, the fact that we're down to a handful of provinces (again, mainly because of bad starting position and the fact that most of our provinces were worthless wasteland that I didn't bother to contest) is something that I can readily communicate because I'd already given notice that we're pretty much done for this game (from a long-term game-winning perspective) and my only remaining objective is to extract as much blood as possible from Pangaea and TC. Given what TC and Pangaea are doing thus far, Ulm has been extremely successful in this regard, both in terms of actual kills and the simple fact that they have to keep sending troops south. Seriously, wasn't it like one whole month ago already when TC was confidently claiming that "Pangaea was doing well offensively"?

Happily, Pangaea and TC's own greed has allowed Ulm to freely communicate our position in very detailed terms. So what if other powers think we're weak? They can't get to us anyway; they'll have to get through TC/Pangaea first.

What is relevant to all other players however, is the fact that Pangaea and TC are devoting substantial resources to try to polish us off; and that Ulm's forces have not suffered any real losses despite their attempts.

That's why TC has been so desperate to pretend that Ulm is still a threat to the outside world; with blatantly insane statements like "you (Ulm) can field enough power for a decisive victory" or trying to make a big deal about taking one poorly defended Ulmish province, or trying to send PMs to finnagle deals to other players. Ulm's actions speak for themselves. Bring it the fuck on, TC/Pangaea.

Shatner · Post by **Shatner** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:19 pm

Ah man, I go to bed and all the fun discussion happens.

So at one point I'd drawn Ulm's deathstar away from their capital and then launched an aerial assault on Ulm sole fort , thinking I was committing a master stroke. No fort means no taxes means his troops desert means his deathstar becomes a bunch of mages standing alone in a field. I guess Ulm had a decent nest egg saved up because all that stuff I just said didn't happen. So, good on Ulm, I guess. Very fiscally responsible, those guys.

The only fighting in the east that has been under-reported is the fighting between Marignon and Pangaea-T'ien Ch'i. However, there isn't a whole lot to report. Mari got kicked out of the the provinces south of the river by TC and now the two nations are staring at each other across a choke point with large detente armies. Marignon has been raiding the Pangaean coast because why the hell not, they can sail! One such raiding party was violently blown up but another, led by Mari's impressive Awe-9 prophet has been sitting outside the walls of on of my forts for quite a while. Say what you will about LA Pangaea (and there's plenty to say) but they resist sieges very well. Of course I really ought to get off my ass and chase that besieging force away, but that's another matter.

It looks like the war between Agartha and Utgard has slowed down with Agartha holding the underground and Utgard guarding the entrance to the basement with a big pile of scary. Incidentally, I believe there are two different types of darkness in Dom4: there's the Darkness spell version which is offers full penalties, and then there is the Solar Eclipse spell and Underground version which offers half the penalties of full darkness. Oh, the half-penalty darkness is also the sort of thing you sometimes suffer during assassination attempts because a percentage of those take place at night.

And through all of this Abysia and Patala have remain uninvolved in all the ongoing crazy. This makes perfect sense for Patala because they have the largest empire on the map AND are conquering the water provinces AND have the most thrones claimed AND have another 3-4 thrones unclaimed, so them not calling attention to themselves makes sense. Abysia, I'm assuming, is building up for some serious late game scary through their blood economy... or they're just really stand-up guys and don't want to butt in on other people's wars.

There's been a lack of really cinematic battles lately. Utgard and Agartha had some nice ones a while back, and it sounds like a few went down between Ulm and T'ien Ch'i but sadly my scout network missed it. There was a nice one a turn or three ago when Patala's SC pretender waged a one-woman war on a Tier-3Tier 2 or 3 throne defended by a demigod, a host of fliers, and an honorguard of Enkidu Warriors and slaughtered them all. Patala hasn't claimed the throne yet so we don't know what the prize for that fight was.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:53 pm

Shatner wrote:There was a nice one a turn or three ago when Patala's SC pretender waged a one-woman war on a Tier-3 throne defended by a demigod, a host of fliers, and an honorguard of Enkidu Warriors and slaughtered them all. Patala hasn't claimed the throne yet so we don't know what the prize for that fight was.

As tempting as "Drop everything and kill Patala" sounds, I think I'd rather keep fighting the current war.

Edit: And yes, I had long suspected that someone else was already running away with the game; there were just too many of us in the East.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:59 pm

Do you have independent confirmation that it even is a level 3? I had to beat down an equivalent force for my level 2.

Shatner · Post by **Shatner** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:04 pm

No, I don't actually know what level the throne is. However, in every single player game I've played, every time you have a large force of magical critters led by a demigod protecting a throne it's been a level 3 throne they're protecting. I've seen times when there was essentially a normal force (e.g. archers, heavy infantry, etc.) who happened to have a demigod with them and those were level 2 thrones, but the full on army of gryphons and ethereal lightning hawks and whatnot has meant level 3.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:08 pm

Well, it's apparently not a firm rule.

Shatner · Post by **Shatner** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:11 pm

Okay. Edited my earlier post to reflect this uncertainty.