The Gaming Den

What is up with all that multiclassing?

Rawbeard wrote:What is up with all that multiclassing?

He's using rogue 2/alchemist 1 to enter arcane trickster instead of rogue 3.

Now why one would want to be an arcane trickster at all, I couldn't tell you.

Because Arcane trickster is better than straight up rogue
and being a Straight up Wizard wasn't an option. I had to make a sneaky/disarm traps/trapfinder character.

Sabs, your Skaven should focus on being a better Wizard. You'll always do reasonable sneak damage should anything close to melee, and it's nice to have that as a backup so you have free stuff to do when your spells run out, but in a couple levels you become as close to a full caster as anyone in your game and you should act like it.

Hmm, casterlevel optimisation is out (though you should have begged for the Magical Knack trait anyway), so focus on your DCs for the mass-save-or-suck stuff. Abuse the crap out of Charm Person for a couple levels. Depends what your school is. You know, like a Wizard, only the monsters are all a few levels higher than usual because you had to take some Rogue.

Or I guess set yourself up with an impossibly high AC via self-buffs, which should also explode your CMD, and hope the DM keeps sending monsters at you. Can't see any real cheese there with feats, but there's the odd thing that boosts AC. Mobility probably works given how hard they made Tumble suck, maybe Sidestep to keep yourself out of reach from multi-attackers. Meh. I give up, Pathfinder feats aren't that interesting, especially with low BAB and stuff.

sabs wrote:Because Arcane trickster is better than straight up rogue
and being a Straight up Wizard wasn't an option. I had to make a sneaky/disarm traps/trapfinder character.

Rogue 1/wizard N-1 works better.

Or at least, a bard archetype with trapfinding (like sandman).

tussock wrote:There are no actions and turns until combat starts, which is when opposed parties are aware that combat is starting, or when one party surprises another and begins combat.

1: Magus has not been seen, so may act without combat rules getting in the way. He 'ports.
2: The DM rules post-port (when the enemy could first be aware, but are MTP surprised by that) starts a surprise round, actions now begin.
3: Magus rolls init and stabs in surprise round.
4: Surprised parties roll init, first round starts.

Alternately ...

2: DM rules pre-port starts the surprise round (maybe the enemy heard casting?).
3: Magus rolls init and ports in surprise round.
4: Surprised parties roll init, first round starts.

Either way, your action is to port in and stab (and enspell) people as much as possible before they can react. How well that works depends on how well surprise works (stealth) and how long they stay flat-footed (initiative). On the first regular round of combat, "Spell Combat" also comes into play.

OK, let's say I use Teleport-spring-attack : spell perfection with teleport, quicken spell, my normal attack sequence is spell combat, teleport, full attack, quickened teleport. And some more shit to prevent readied actions (greater invisibility etc).

You're saying that I can't use this technique during surprise round :

• If the enemy is aware of my attack, I can pop in, full-attack, and pop out ; the only thing he can do is a readied action, which means a standard action (if my defences don't prevent his action to trigger).
• If the ennemy isn't aware, the sequence is : teleport, end of surprise round; if the ennemy has a better init than me he can full attack or use any full round action.

Therefore, I am more efficient if I cast message to warn my enemies about my surprise attack. Sounds shitty for me, but that's probably RAW.

I actually have the Magical Knack.. so my caster level is only going to be N-1. I'm planning on focusing on spells. I was just looking for some options for feats.. Pathfinder feats really do just suck.

I went into the feint tree, cause what the hell. Combat Expertise, improved feint, etc.. as a backup when I run out of save or die spells.

sabs wrote: I was just looking for some options for feats. Pathfinder feats really do just suck.

There are plenty of reasonably good feats for a full caster, and plenty of reasonably good feats for a melee rogue. I agree that there aren't many good feats for an I-don't-know-what-the-hell-it-is.

So, since I've seen it suggested various times for a wizard to take an item for arcane bond rather than familiar, I would like to ask how to make the most of having a bond item as a pathfinder wizard. Things like, what sort of bond item to take, what to do with it when I get the money to item creation mojo with it, any feats that would further enhance it, etc.

Pick something for which you won't get the item creation feat, or only get it freakishly late compared to casterlevel of crafted items. Rings come to mind. Not sure if better options exist. Staffs maybe? Ring is harder to lose, though.

Rawbeard wrote:Pick something for which you won't get the item creation feat, or only get it freakishly late compared to casterlevel of crafted items. Rings come to mind.

The wording is a bit confusing, but the gist is that you don't want the "freakishly late" feat-equivalent. From the rules:

PRD wrote:A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object as if he has the required item creation feats and if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat. For example, a wizard with a bonded dagger must be at least 5th level to add magic abilities to the dagger (see the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat in Feats).

So if you have to be 5th level to add magic abilities to your dagger bonded item, you would have to be 7th level to add abilities to your ring item.

I'd go with the amulet; it can't be disarmed easily and you can start enhancing it at level 3. The Amulet of Magecraft is good if you're a Universalist, but it's moderately expensive.

Kinda missread that level prerequisite part. Moo.

I wouldn't take the amulet unless you are really sure you will never pick up craft woundrous item (amulets were in there, right?). Ring seems still moderatly good pick, since there are not many you will wear and bying/finding one of those seems bearable if you can custombuild the other.

You can always switch your arcane bond to a new one for 200 gp * lvl IIRC. So you can switch to a ring later on.

I am in a game with 2 spellcasters using Words of Power. The wizard is useful when he casts rope trick and the sorcerer/oracle is not only never useful, the guy playing him is a fishmalk.

The spellcasters are 7th level and the most useful thing they can do is cast Acid Splash over and over again.

Ted the Flayer wrote:I am in a game with 2 spellcasters using Words of Power. The wizard is useful when he casts rope trick and the sorcerer/oracle is not only never useful, the guy playing him is a fishmalk.

I don't get it: there's no Words of Power equivalent to Rope Trick, so how is he casting it?

Ted the Flayer wrote:The spellcasters are 7th level and the most useful thing they can do is cast Acid Splash over and over again.

That sounds like a player problem, not a PC problem. There are wizard and oracle words better than Acid Splash, and I've seen non-Words of Power casters who are equally useless.

I was looking through the Pathfinder PC classes for an interesting fighty character to use as an NPC in the next module I run, and I found this Monk variant:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-cl ... ghost-monk

The way I read it, you trade some powers for the ability to refill your fiddly resource points with a bag of rats between fights. Does that really work? Even if you do that, is it any good?

The way I read it, you trade some powers for the ability to refill your fiddly resource points with a bag of rats between fights. Does that really work? Even if you do that, is it any good?

The good part is then taking 2 levels of rogue, selecting the ninja trick rogue talent and then the forgotten trick ninja trick.

That's not a very good NPC-level schtick--it smells of PC because of the accounting and lookups involved--however it does magnify the usefulness of your fiddly resource points.

Avoraciopoctules wrote:The way I read it, you trade some powers for the ability to refill your fiddly resource points with a bag of rats between fights. Does that really work?

Sure.

Avoraciopoctules wrote:Even if you do that, is it any good?

(a) You give up some crappy abilities to get the ki point replenishing thing and some other crappy abilities.
(b) After all is said and done, you're still a monk, so you still suck sweaty balls.

Avoraciopoctules wrote:I was looking through the Pathfinder PC classes for an interesting fighty character to use as an NPC in the next module I run, and I found this Monk variant:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-cl ... ghost-monk

The way I read it, you trade some powers for the ability to refill your fiddly resource points with a bag of rats between fights. Does that really work? Even if you do that, is it any good?

If all you want out of the archetype is the ki refill, you can get that with a weapon made of wyroot (assuming your DM allows it, but it's from Paizo, not a third party.)

It'd only work on a critical hit, so I suggest a Fauchard for the improved crit rate. There's also no restriction on the type of damage dealt, so you can swing for nonlethal damage on your horse/party fighter too. The HG monk has that pesky "must crit an enemy" clause that the wyroot doesn't have.

That way, you can pick a slightly less bad monk archetype, so you can suck less sweaty balls instead.

I can definitely throw in a wyroot weapon, to slightly improve the rate at which ki is regained in battle. Now, the way I read the following: "If the monk has at least 1 ki point in his ki pool and scores a confirmed critical hit against a living enemy or reduces a living enemy to 0 or fewer hit points, "

You'd get 2 ki points back if you rolled a natural 20 when you pulled the live chicken off your belt and punched it in the face. If you were wearing a wyroot cestus on that hand, you basically get 3 ki points instead.

To take things a little further, if I assume that you can continually retrain Qinggong Monk power substitutions as more high-level options become available, the chicken-punching can be used to cast Gaseous Form and Restoration on yourself essentially at will.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.p ... tid=558283

What would be a more useful character.

So I want to make a platemail wearing spellcaster/ironman ish character.
my idea was:
Dwarf(maybe duegar) with the 2 ASF reducing feats (light and medium armor) and item creation feats.

My question was the class levels.
1 Cleric / X Wizard
or
3 Cleric/3 wizard/10 Mystic Theurge/X wizard.

Which is going to work better in the long run?

I was looking up the potion table in PF yesterday, and I noticed that Enlarge Person is still 250gp. Nice to see that 3.0 holdover make it through two entire game revisions.

Whatever wrote:I was looking up the potion table in PF yesterday, and I noticed that Enlarge Person is still 250gp. Nice to see that 3.0 holdover make it through two entire game revisions.

Weird. I never even noticed that. I've explicitly priced them at 50gp before just by going off of the formula. I never once considered checking the chart in the DMG.

What's that about?

I assume it's a cut and paste issue.

Back in 3.0, Enlarge and Reduce changed the target's size by 10% per caster level, up to a maximum of 50% at caster level 5. So if you wanted an effective potion of enlarge, you would buy a CL 5 potion, instead of a CL 1 potion. Hence the 250gp price tag.

It was copy/pasted over to 3.5 even though the spell changed to Enlarge Person and has no caster level benefit (aside from the longer duration), and they seem to have copied that directly over for PF, too. I just found it amusing.