The Gaming Den

Zinegata wrote:Stop derailing the thread.

Stop inflating your post count.

-Crissa

Crissa->

Stop telling yourself that I'm trying to chase your post count. You're also not an intellectual. Stop derailing the thread.

Now, for a bit of hypocrisy on my part... a minor derailment:

Kaelik->

Take a look at this passage from Maj's post:

In essence, it boils down to cognitive dissonance (that's the core of the book's philosophy). The idea is that people don't like dissonance and will do anything to end the discomfort brought about by the conflict, from reinterpretation of events to rewriting their own memories.

Now, let me elaborate on this a bit.

The way a human being works is as follows:

Stimulus -> Affect -> Cognition -> Action -> (Back to Stimulus)

Stimulus are "stuff in the environment that provides you with sensory data".

Affect are "unconscious feelings that a person experiences because of stimulus"

Cognition is "conscious thought that a person uses to process sensory data".

Action is "What a person does in response to Affect and Cognition to change the environment, and thus create more stimulus".

Now, the above model is from the Wheel of Consumer Behavior (because I'm a marketing dude), but basically all models of human behavior are similar to this model with only minor variations.

What Maj is saying is that people experience Cognitive Dissonance. It's when your Affect and Cognition come to different conclusions. Metaphorically, it's when your heart says one thing and your mind says another.

People don't like that feeling. Hence, they will do anything to end that cognitive dissonance. However, since most people can't control their emotions (Affect), they order their Cognitive processes to twist, ignore, or malign the facts so that it matches their feelings.

Take Crissa's example:

Stimulus: "Zinegata stated that thinking does not make you an intellectual.

Affect: Crissa feels mad. Because Zinegata is "attacking" her view of herself as an intellectual.

Cognition: Crissa (as an adult) knows that Zinegata is correct. People think all the time. Just because you think doesn't make you an intellectual.

At that moment, Crissa experiences Cognitive dissonance. In order to escape it, people use various methods. In Crissa's case...

Action: Crissa changes the topic to something involving post counts.

As you can see, she didn't even try to process the fact presented to her. She discarded the data and instead launched an unrelated attack.

Now, will this help her any? Probably not, because her "self-defense" mechanism against Cognitive Dissonance is rejection. No different from religious loons who reject the beliefs of others because it causes them Cognitive Dissonance.

But for other people, knowing Cognitive Dissonance exists may be much more helpful to making them into more objctive and less shrill individuals.

And now that's over...

I'm reading Barbara Tuchman's The Guns of August.

I don't think Zinegata understands the words 'affect' and 'effect'. I know it's not his first language, but... He's an asshole. And he's wrong.

Mostly he's wrong by asserting there is an objective reality that is the same as his subjective reading.

-Crissa

Zine, none of that has anything to do with whether or not it's rational to in fact not read a book about cognitive biases.

Hell, you attempted to demonstrate one half of Crissa's premises right there. She does exibit cognitive biases. Now if you also accept the premise that she knew about that cognitive bias, which was in a post right above hers, then you have a complete sound argument for the rationality of not reading the book.

Crissa wrote:I don't think Zinegata understands the words 'affect' and 'effect'. I know it's not his first language, but... He's an asshole. And he's wrong.

Hey, lying fucking bitch, guess what?

It's actually affect. Not effect. Again, articles on the wheel of consumer behavior:

http://www.12manage.com/description_whe ... lysis.html

http://www.powershow.com/view/35489-NTB ... r_Analysis

Because again, you're not an intellectual. You're just an ignorant college drop-out bum with an overly high opinion of yourself.

Get over it, moron.

Kaelik wrote:Zine, none of that has anything to do with whether or not it's rational to in fact not read a book about cognitive biases.

Hell, you attempted to demonstrate one half of Crissa's premises right there. She does exibit cognitive biases. Now if you also accept the premise that she knew about that cognitive bias, which was in a post right above hers, then you have a complete sound argument for the rationality of not reading the book.

I know the book can't help Crissa. She's too stupid to understand the book in the first place.

No need to apply the book's premise to her at all. Still, others can be helped.

I don't think I'd quote a 12-step scam as a source for grammar.

-Crissa

Crissa wrote:I don't think I'd quote a 12-step scam as a source for grammar.

-Crissa

Hey, ignorant college-drop-out fucking moronic bitch.

It's not a twelve step scam site.

You really are that fucking stupid, and you are certainly no intellectual when you confuse "Business Management" with "scamming".

My dad lent me Something Wicked This Way Comes. I intend to read it tomorrow now that I have some time to do so, I haven't read a novel in a long time.

So Books that I"ve been reading.

I read the first four "merchant prince" books by Stross.

Fun reading, talks of economy and travel between worlds in a sensible way. the fifth one is kinda throwing me for a loop.



Also read "Donna Harroway and GM Foods" which is an awesome look at genetically modified food and how Donna Harroway handled it from a perspective that talks of biohybrids and cyborgs, and the ethic/unethic of GM foods.

Waiting for The Way of Kings from Brandon Sanderson. (Next week)


Sample Chapters (you need to be registered there)

I just picked up the Imperial Guard Omnibus 1 and Neil Hanson's Unknown Soldiers.

The IG Omnibus 1 is fairly solid. Some stories were better than others, but it gave a good feel of the Imperial Guardsman's POV.

Crissa wrote:I don't think I'd quote a 12-step scam as a source for grammar.

-Crissa

Will you take wikipedia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affect_%28psychology%29

Really, it's not like this isn't something where you can't take 5 seconds to say "am I really correct here?" before responding.

PoliteNewb wrote:Will you take wikipedia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affect_%28psychology%29

That's far more helpful.

Really, it's not like this isn't something where you can't take 5 seconds to say "am I really correct here?" before responding.

...And how was I supposed to get that from a twelve-step scam?

-Crissa

I'm going to be starting Eco's Name of the Rose today. I really liked Baudelino, so I gotta say I'm pretty psyched.

Crissa wrote:

PoliteNewb wrote:Will you take wikipedia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affect_%28psychology%29

That's far more helpful.

Really, it's not like this isn't something where you can't take 5 seconds to say "am I really correct here?" before responding.

...And how was I supposed to get that from a twelve-step scam?

-Crissa

Same way I did? My thought process went kind of like this:

Z: (says something using the word "affect")
Crissa: I think you're mixing up "affect" and "effect"
Z: No, I'm actually using it correctly, here's why (insert links I can't be bothered to read)

Me: Hmm, is Zine really misusing that word? Let's google "Affect" and see what we get.

4th entry is "affect, psychology", which explains exactly what Zine was trying to say.

Me: okay, Zine was using that correctly, in appropriate context. Neat, I learned something. And it only took about 20 seconds.

Wouldn't it have been less embarrassing to do that before lecturing somebody about how they're using the word wrong when, in fact, they aren't?

I'm not trying to bag on you, Crissa, but you seem to have a strong tendency to simply refuse to admit when you're wrong...or in some cases, grasp the concept that you could possibly be wrong in the first place.

Sorry for contributing to a derail.

Korwin wrote:Waiting for The Way of Kings from Brandon Sanderson. (Next week)

He seems to be the current fantasy "it" writer. The genre writer panelists at GenCon were practically fawning over him.

That said, I have Mistborn coming to me from the library and my wife is listening to Warbreaker on CD.

Polite Newb->

I was considering using the wiki, but again I'm using it as part of an entire model - the "Wheel of Consumer Behavior". Hence, the link ought to be for the whole wheel, and not just "Affect".

The second link was even a step-by-step powerpoint to help explain the whole concept.

Crissa wrote: ...And how was I supposed to get that from a twelve-step scam?

Hey, lying fucking college-drop-out bitch who is totally not an intellectual.

Again, it's not a 12 step scam site.

In fact, look at the site description on their MAIN page:

12manage: All you need to know about management

* Discover summaries of management methods and models

* Discuss management issues with managers, consultants and academics

* Take advantage of our management tools

It's a business management site. How the fuck can it be a scam site when it provides summaries on various business management paradigms for free? It doesn't even say anything about "You gain cool stuff in 12 easy steps".

You're a fucking liar. You never even read the site and just assumed "It's a 12 step scam because there's the number 12 on the URL". You're a lying fucking moron.

Repeating your bullshit lies won't make them true. And the issue here isn't my grammar. The issue here is that you are such a lying fucking bitch that you intentionally misrespresented my source as a "scam site" when it's a valid resource.

You're just proving Maj's point. You're worst than a fucking bible thumper when it comes to disrespect for actual knowledge just so you can continue feeding your ego, fucking non-intellectual bitch.

[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
Now children:

Crissa, not derailing the thread in the first place and then admitting you were wrong and moving on would be very helpful. It is okay to take the moral high ground. Also, calling Zine out for name calling AND THEN CALLING HIM NAMES makes me not take your report seriously. Please , please do not tell me he started it. I deal with 11-year-olds all day and do not need it from you too.

Zine, enough with the name calling. Whether or not you are factually correct is lost on a lot of folks (myself included) when, even by the standards of TGDMB, you are spewing vitriol all over the thread. That goes not only for this thread, but your posting in general.

Zine, Crissa, and everyone else: Get back on topic and stop butt fucking what is otherwise an awesome thread.
[/TGFBS]

So I finished Death Note...I almost gave up after volume 7, but I decided to stick it out and finish it. Most of the rest was pretty "meh", but the final chapter was worth reading.

I also recently read "Superfreakonomics"...wasn't as good as the first one.

I bought Gene Wolfe's "Soldier of Arete", but didn't realize it was second in a series; I need to find the first volume, because Gene Wolfe is pretty awesome, and the premise looks good.

Wesley Street wrote:

Korwin wrote:Waiting for The Way of Kings from Brandon Sanderson. (Next week)

He seems to be the current fantasy "it" writer. The genre writer panelists at GenCon were practically fawning over him.

That said, I have Mistborn coming to me from the library and my wife is listening to Warbreaker on CD.

Mistborn is good, I got it from an Tor promotion as an free eBook and got hooked on Sandersons writing.
(damn free crack)

Warbreaker started a little slow for me. Good book but not (IMHO) on the same level as Mistborn.
Btw. you can read Warbreaker on the Authors Blog if you want.

that's quite reasonable of the author, I don't usually like reading things on the screen, but I may give it a crack.

The nook's reading screen is actually really nice, due to not being backlit at all, but $150 is a hell of a lot to just read a free ebook.