[Pathfinder] More previews up

shau · Post by **shau** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:59 am

The only thing I remember from the MM3 is the fleshraker, a five attack pouncer that also got a free trip (or was it pin?) and poison on every charge. And your druid could have it at level 4.

That said, I remember that paled pretty significantly compared to the player cheese offered in MM2, Check out the warbeast template. It gives you the prices for nonstandard mounts, and holy shit it turns out that a Trex costs less than most magical weapons. It made it so you can take the party fighter's plus one sword and buy a character that is overwhelmingly better than he is at his job.

EDIT: wasn't the corrolax the little bird with like 2 hp but the ability to fire color sprays? That was the most BS rocket launcher tag enemy ever.

Draco_Argentum · Post by **Draco_Argentum** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:33 am

Its not that much worse than a lvl1 wizard.

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:28 pm

Web Golems? I liked 'em. Old temple with lots of spiders and web golems and similar bullshittery. Lots of fun.

Fuchs · Post by **Fuchs** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:30 pm

Bard preview is up:

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Preview #7
Wednesday, June 24, 2009

The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook is set to release on August 13th, 2009, and in anticipation, we are releasing a preview of the game each week until the game hits store shelves. This week, we are taking a look at Lem, the iconic bard.

Lem
Male halfling bard 8
CG Small humanoid (halfling)
Init +4; Senses Perception +12
DEFENSE
AC 21, touch 17, flat-footed 16 (+4 armor, +1 deflection, +4 Dex, +1 dodge, +1 size)
hp 55 (8d8+16)
Fort +6, Ref +12, Will +7; +4 vs. bardic performance, sonic, and language dependent effects, +2 vs. fear
OFFENSE
Speed 20 ft.
Melee +1 short sword +7/+2 (1d4–1/19–20)
Ranged +1 thundering sling +12/+7 (1d3)
Special Attacks bardic performance (28 rounds/day), countersong, distraction, dirge of doom, fascinate (DC 18), inspire competence +3, inspire courage +2, suggestion (DC 18)
Spells Known (CL 8th):
3rd (3/day)—charm monster (DC 17), cure serious wounds, haste
2nd (5/day)—blur, glitterdust (DC 16), minor image (DC 16), sound burst (DC 16)
1st (5/day)—charm person (DC 15), cure light wounds, disguise self, hideous laughter (DC 15), lesser confusion (DC 15)
0 (at will)—detect magic, ghost sound (DC 14), know direction, light, read magic, summon instrument
STATISTICS
Str 8, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 18
Base Atk +6; CMB +4; CMD 20
Feats Combat Casting, Dodge, Extra Performance, Mobility
Skills Acrobatics +17, Escape Artist +15, Knowledge (local) +16, Perception +12, Perform (comedy) +15, Perform (wind instruments) +19, Stealth +19, Use Magic Device +15
SQ bardic knowledge (+4), lore master (1/day), versatile performance (comedy, wind instruments), well-versed
Languages Common, Elven, Halfling
Combat Gear lesser metamagic rod of extend, wand of cure moderate wounds (CL 3rd, 50 charges); Other Gear +1 shortsword, +1 thundering sling, 20 sling bullets, +2 leather armor, belt of incredible dexterity +2, cloak of resistance +1, mwk flute, ring of protection +1, wind fan

So, a bard, a fighter, a rogue, a cleric, and a wizard walk into a dungeon. The fighter says, "If only someone could give me a bonus to hit and damage against those ogres." The rogue says, "If only someone could give me a bonus to my Disable Device checks to help me disarm this trap." The cleric says, "If only someone could counter the song of the harpy that is luring me to my doom." The wizard says, "If only someone could fascinate these orcs so that I could get away from them." Finally the bard says, "Sorry guys, but I am built using 3.5 and all out of bardic performance for the day. Who wants a ghost sound?"

Don't let this situation happen to you. The Pathfinder bard has a revised mechanic for his Bardic Performance, limiting him to a total number of rounds per day, meaning that he does not have to save his few uses for inspire courage. Bards start out with a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + their Charisma modifier and gain an additional 2 rounds per day for every level beyond first. Lem here also has the Extra Performance feat which grants him an additional 6 rounds per day.

The beta version of the bard also had two paths for his bardic performance, allowing him to gain different abilities depending upon the type of Perform skill he possessed. While it was fun to come up with new abilities, the split caused many to worry that for a bard to reach his full potential, he would have to invest twice the number of ranks into Perform. In the final game, we solidified it back into one progression, but kept many of the new abilities, such as Dirge of Doom that causes all foes within 30 feet to become shaken as long as the bard continues his performance. In addition, the progression for some of the other performance types has been enhanced. Inspire courage increases to +2 at 5th level and continues to increase by +1 for every 6 levels after 5th. Inspire competence also increases by +1 for every 4 levels after 3rd.

We have also made starting and maintaining a bardic performance a bit easier. At 1st level, starting a bardic performance is a standard action, but this changes to a move action at 7th level and a swift action at 13th. Regardless of the action needed to start a performance, maintaining a performance is a free action, meaning that the bard can keep up a performance and still cast spells, move, and make attacks.

Moving on from bardic performance, the bard has received a number of other upgrades as well. Bards no longer have any alignment restrictions and they have d8 hit dice. Their spell progression has been enhanced a bit to remove the "0" listings from their chart, meaning that they get a spell without having to have a Charisma high enough to grant a bonus spell of that level. Bardic Knowledge now grants a bonus to all Knowledge skills equal to 1/2 the bard's level (minimum +1) and allows the bard to make any Knowledge skill check without having ranks in it. Well-versed grants a flat +4 bonus on saves against other bardic performances, as well as sonic and language-based spell effects. Lore master is granted at 5th level and it allows the bard to take 10 on any Knowledge skill check. In addition, once per day he can take 20 on a Knowledge skill check. As he gains levels, he can use this secondary ability multiple times per day as well.

One other class feature was added to the bard that allows him to really maximize his skill points. During the playtest there were a number of concerns about the Perform skill, being that it was required to gain access to specific bardic performance abilities but did little else beyond the roleplaying uses. To solve this we introduced a new bard class feature called versatile performance. This ability is gained at 2nd level and it allows the bard to substitute his Perform bonus for the bonus of two other skills, depending on the type of Perform. For example, Lem has versatile performance for both comedy and wind instruments. This allows him to substitute his bonus in Perform (comedy) for his bonus Bluff and Intimidate. It also allows him to substitute his bonus in Perform (wind instruments) for his bonus in Diplomacy and Handle Animal. With this ability he can use these skills even if he would normally have to be trained. As he gains levels, Lem can add new types of Perform to his list, allowing him to make even more substitutions (such as Perform [dance] for Acrobatics and Fly).

There have been a few changes to the spells on Lem's list as well. Glitterdust, for example, now allows a save each round to negate the blindness (although the creatures affected by it still remain visible for the duration). Hideous laughter now grants an additional save after the first round of laughing to negate the effect. If this second save fails, the target laughs for the entire duration, which remains 1 round per level. Lesser confusion, and by extension, confusion, have been simplified a bit to make them easier to adjudicate. Both of these spells cause the subject to gain the confused condition, which causes them to roll d% each round to determine their actions on the following table.

Confused Condition
01–25 Act Normally
26–50 Do nothing but babble incoherently
51–75 Deal 1d8 points of damage + Str modifier to self with item in hand
76–100 Attack nearest creature

At higher levels the bard gains a few new performance types, allowing him to frighten or even kill his foes (in Lem's case, probably by telling a really bad joke). The bard also gains a performance type that allows him to cast mass cure serous wounds by performing for 4 consecutive rounds. The bard also gains the jack-of-all-trades ability at 10th level which allows him to try any skill untrained and at higher levels allows him to treat all skills like class skills and to take 10 on any skill check.

Well, that is the end of the bard's tale. Tune in next week for a journey into the wild with Lini, the iconic druid.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:44 pm

Ya know, I think they're actually learning a little. Not much though, but they're finally bothering with things like cloak of resistance, which actually makes the level 8 have comparable saves to the 11-14s.

Of course, if they're gimping the save or lose effects, then there's nothing to save the rest of the gimps from being annihilated, whereas they might have been able to scratch the mob to death if it got blinded by a decent DC effect.

MartinHarper · Post by **MartinHarper** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:07 pm

Fuchs wrote:The wizard says, "If only someone could fascinate these orcs so that I could get away from them."

Have they changed bardic Fascinate so it works in combat then?

Fuchs · Post by **Fuchs** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:12 pm

I'd not know. I am ambivalent towards this version - I'd rather have had them simply add some "more forms of performance for free" class feature instead of letting a bard buy all sorts of performances and use them as all sorts of other skills. There are feats who do such things already.

I also don't like the changes to the duration of bardic music that much.

sake · Post by **sake** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:49 pm

Wow... the artwork for that one is.... rather special. It's like some sort of Hobbit Adventurer David Bowie

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:11 pm

MartinHarper wrote:
Fuchs wrote:The wizard says, "If only someone could fascinate these orcs so that I could get away from them."
Have they changed bardic Fascinate so it works in combat then?

I can't tell. They seem to think that the Cleric (who has literally the best Will save in the game and Silence) is the on who wants someone to counter a Harpy song. I don't know what that is about.

I don't understand why the character bothers to own magic weapons. I don't understand how Jason thinks this character will contribute to anything. It's a random pile of powers, most of which have no synergy. Having three low DC Charm Monsters is still 3 Charm Monsters. But you're still never going to trade one out for a Cure Serious Wounds.

But the thing is that the 3.5 Bard is already like that. Bards only contribute meaningfully when they use expansion options that let them trade some of their bullshit to be level appropriate in some way or another. That seems to till be true in Pathfinder, so I'm not sure what the point of any of this is.

-Username17

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:22 pm

Epic fucking fail. Bardic music measured in rounds per day.

Yeah, that's totally not a huge pain in the ass to keep track of. GOOD WORK TEAM PAIZO

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:28 am

Maybe he plans to take weapon finesse, Frank? He does have an 18 Dex.

-Crissa

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:37 am

I borrowed a friend's copy of Pathfinder's The Great Beyond.

The Great Beyond details the cosmology of the setting in greater detail, which largely functions as a more cohesive and simplified Great Wheel. In the Outer Planes, there's a place called the Graveyard of Souls, which is basically an enormous graveyard. Certain souls are earmarked for this place, entombed in the graves & crypts, still aware though largely dormant. The category of soul that's effectively buried alive for eternity is simple, if you were an atheist in life.

It's not even the Doubting Thomas kind of atheist that doesn't believe in the existence of the soul or the afterlife.

Pathfinder Campaign Setting wrote:atheism (the “gods” may be real, but not divine and therefore not worthy of blind devotion and worship)...

I'm actually kind of offended.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:17 am

Isn't that like the Wall of Soulpain in Faerun?

Seems kind of deserved, though. Which deity is going to bother with a soul that has viewed him with contempt and has wanted little to do with him in life? Only place left to go is someplace without gods.

Absentminded_Wizard · Post by **Absentminded_Wizard** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:03 am

If Pathfinder is using the old D&D trope of gods getting power from their followers, it makes sense for the gods collectively to force people to play along with their little power games or regret it.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:04 am

virgileso wrote:I borrowed a friend's copy of Pathfinder's The Great Beyond.

The Great Beyond details the cosmology of the setting in greater detail, which largely functions as a more cohesive and simplified Great Wheel. In the Outer Planes, there's a place called the Graveyard of Souls, which is basically an enormous graveyard. Certain souls are earmarked for this place, entombed in the graves & crypts, still aware though largely dormant. The category of soul that's effectively buried alive for eternity is simple, if you were an atheist in life.

It's not even the Doubting Thomas kind of atheist that doesn't believe in the existence of the soul or the afterlife.
Pathfinder Campaign Setting wrote:atheism (the “gods” may be real, but not divine and therefore not worthy of blind devotion and worship)...
I'm actually kind of offended.

Don't worry -- if you don't like that, there's a mutually exclusive definition of atheist in another book.

When I pointed out how stupid that is in this thread, Sean K Reynolds brilliantly answered "the afterlife is supposed to be mysterious, so contradictions between rulebooks is a feature, not a bug" (paraphrased).

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:23 am

We're still talking about D&D, right? Because last I checked, you could seriously go to [Afterlife plane of choice] and go drinking with your deity. Mysterious to the common person yes. Mysterious to the people that actually fucking matter? No, not really.

MartinHarper · Post by **MartinHarper** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:33 am

Psychic Robot wrote:Epic fucking fail. Bardic music measured in rounds per day

I assume the bard uses Inspiring Knock-Knock Joke on round one of the fight, and then stops and lets the after-effects keep the bonus going till round six, so it's no more complicated to track.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:31 pm

Roy wrote:We're still talking about D&D, right? Because last I checked, you could seriously go to [Afterlife plane of choice] and go drinking with your deity.

Pathfinder cosmology is different.

Roy wrote:Mysterious to the common person yes. Mysterious to the people that actually fucking matter? No, not really.

Whenever you see a contradiction in our rules, a wizard the gods did it on purpose to test ye mortals.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:46 pm

Absentminded_Wizard wrote:If Pathfinder is using the old D&D trope of gods getting power from their followers, it makes sense for the gods collectively to force people to play along with their little power games or regret it.

From everything I've seen, divinity in Pathfinder isn't reliant upon belief from its followers. You've either got it or you don't. There are many, many souls that never end up with their afterlives owned/controlled by a god and simply get carted off to a plane that fits their alignment (the evil go to Hell, the good go to Heaven, etc). But no, the gods take time out of their day to pick out the atheists and shove them in a box, forever.

That thread linked does Todd Stewart, the author of The Great Beyond, pipe in. He seems to be going under the assumption that atheist means someone who actively denies the idea of a soul or afterlife. Using that is more palatable.

hogarth wrote: Pathfinder cosmology is different.

For purposes of using plane shift to tour Elysium and see angels flying around, no, it's no different from D&D.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:53 pm

virgileso wrote:
hogarth wrote: Pathfinder cosmology is different.
For purposes of using plane shift to tour Elysium and see angels flying around, no, it's no different from D&D.

But are the deities hanging around on the various planes, as Roy suggested? That wasn't the idea I got from the Campaign Setting (except for Pharasma sitting in the place of judgment), but I haven't looked at the Great Beyond; I could be wrong.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:08 pm

From what I'm seeing out of the book, they do seem to actually call kip there. They have about as much information on the physical location of each deity as you would see in Planescape, which is not very much, but they have explicit domains of control & influence with borders and everything.

FatR · Post by **FatR** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:03 pm

virgileso wrote: I'm actually kind of offended.

What offends me about Pathfinder gods is the fact that they are completely fucking irrelevant, due to being completely passive for about the entire history of the setting. When FR gods randomly screw with the mortal world, it is generally annoying, but at least demonstrates, that they have some role in the setting. Pathfinder gods are entirely superfluous, because powering clerics is literally all they have done for the past ten thousand years or so.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:35 pm

I was about to ask if plane shift no longer exists/works differently. But others already got it. So yeah, there's no doubt to the people that matter.

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:06 pm

FatR wrote:
virgileso wrote: I'm actually kind of offended.
What offends me about Pathfinder gods is the fact that they are completely fucking irrelevant, due to being completely passive for about the entire history of the setting. When FR gods randomly screw with the mortal world, it is generally annoying, but at least demonstrates, that they have some role in the setting. Pathfinder gods are entirely superfluous, because powering clerics is literally all they have done for the past ten thousand years or so.

Speaking from total ignorance of the setting:

Are the gods on a geologic time scale? Like, maybe they did a lot of stuff a long time ago and now 10k years is a bullshit distraction blink-of-an-eye?

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:19 pm

FatR wrote: What offends me about Pathfinder gods is the fact that they are completely fucking irrelevant, due to being completely passive for about the entire history of the setting. When FR gods randomly screw with the mortal world, it is generally annoying, but at least demonstrates, that they have some role in the setting. Pathfinder gods are entirely superfluous, because powering clerics is literally all they have done for the past ten thousand years or so.

Well, I'm the other way; I like Eberron-style extremely distant and uncaring (possibly non-existent) gods. Then you have easy answers to questions like "Why doesn't god X send a couple of solars down to kick bad guy Y's ass?" (Which usually ends in vague muttering about balances of power, etc.)